What does it all mean then?

Not at all

 

In a perfect world we would have twice as many of them working half the hours on half the money (net spend neutral). They would only moan about the money then though and not the hours

 

We should be incentivise bright youngsters to go through medical school by paying there student loan off for them after they qualify and have served there time

 

We go some way to doing it with grants but the hefty fees involved in getting through put far too many off

 

Not sure about incentivising doctors in that way. It is a job you have to WANT to do. Not go into it because someone is giving you a free ride.

 

A similar scheme for teachers, when there was a shortage meant they got their student loans paid off. I heard of loads just teaching the minimum time required to get the loan paid off then quitting for another non-teaching job.

 

You can't get people through medical school if it isn't what they want to do it'd be a disaster. I don't think financially incentivising them is the way to go.

Shipman, Crippen, Fox; there's obviously a massive flaw in the recruitment of doctors with bad eggs like these slipping through.

You can't get people through medical school if it isn't what they want to do it'd be a disaster. I don't think financially incentivising them is the way to go.

It takes about 8 years to become a Doctor - so I reckon there would be very few seeing having their fees paid as being an easy ride.

they get away with murder

Doctor Crippen - Guilty: Hanged. Doctor Mengele - Guilty. Doctor Harold Shipman - Guily: Life Imprisonment commuted to suicide. Doctor Richard Kimble - I don't care. Doctor Kildare - Guilty of bummin'. And finally, Doc Holliday - Killed but was deputised, therefore not guilty. A potted history of medical murderers there. Edit: and I hadn't seen whites man's post.

Edited July 17, 201511 yr by Youri McAnespie

Doc Cox - He's a wanker

It takes about 8 years to become a Doctor - so I reckon there would be very few seeing having their fees paid as being an easy ride.

 

That is my point. The job is well paid at the end of it, but it is still a vocation.

 

Financial incentives aren't the answer.

Doctor Crippen - Guilty: Hanged. Doctor Mengele - Guilty. Doctor Harold Shipman - Guily: Life Imprisonment commuted to suicide. Doctor Richard Kimble - I don't care. Doctor Kildare - Guilty of bummin'. And finally, Doc Holliday - Killed but was deputised, therefore not guilty. A potted history of medical murderers there. Edit: and I hadn't seen whites man's post.

 

Dr Assad.

Beat. Fucking useless for any heart complaints

Doctor Beat

Beat. Fucking useless for any heart complaints

  

Doctor Beat

Worrying

That is my point. The job is well paid at the end of it, but it is still a vocation.

 

Financial incentives aren't the answer.

They are if it gets more numbers and a higher standard of doctor

 

This then benefits society as a whole

They are if it gets more numbers and a higher standard of doctor

 

This then benefits society as a whole

 

Why would it? It is a well paid profession. With a very difficult and long period of training.

 

Given you need to be in the very best academic percentile to do it, and given there are very specific entry requirements in terms of subject, I don't think the standards would be driven up.

 

Would it encourage say, someone who previously wanted to be a solicitor to go into medicine? Doubtful, and even if it did unlikely to actually be a good thing.....

My stepfather wanted to be a vet but wasn't clever enough so ended up being a doctor. #truestory

That is my point. The job is well paid at the end of it, but it is still a vocation.

 

Financial incentives aren't the answer.

What is the answer then as we have a shortage meaning we need to bring them in from abroad?

 

As a population we are either generally not clever enough to do it, or we don't fancy it for some reason?

 

Why wouldn't they fancy it? It's got to be a mix from....

 

8 years study

Huge student loan fees

Horrendous hours & weekends

 

If we incentivised the study then it gets rid of one of the hurdles. Hopefully if changing that meant we produced more Doctors then over time we could pay them less but have more of them so they all worked more reasonable hours (helping overcome another reason why not to do the job)

What is the answer then as we have a shortage meaning we need to bring them in from abroad?

 

As a population we are either generally not clever enough to do it, or we don't fancy it for some reason?

 

Why wouldn't they fancy it? It's got to be a mix from....

 

8 years study

Huge student loan fees

Horrendous hours & weekends

 

If we incentivised the study then it gets rid of one of the hurdles. Hopefully if changing that meant we produced more Doctors then over time we could pay them less but have more of them so they all worked more reasonable hours (helping overcome another reason why not to do the job)

 

At least half the student doctors nowadays are female. That's good, perhaps.

But many of those who take GP jobs switch to part time once they have children.

£45k for a 3 day week gives a nice life-work balance.

Of course one in 1,000 of male GPs go part time to chase Olympic medals or whatever.

What is the answer then as we have a shortage meaning we need to bring them in from abroad?

 

As a population we are either generally not clever enough to do it, or we don't fancy it for some reason?

 

Why wouldn't they fancy it? It's got to be a mix from....

 

8 years study

Huge student loan fees

Horrendous hours & weekends

 

If we incentivised the study then it gets rid of one of the hurdles. Hopefully if changing that meant we produced more Doctors then over time we could pay them less but have more of them so they all worked more reasonable hours (helping overcome another reason why not to do the job)

I think the problem is more fundamental and lower down the chain. To become a doctor you usually need three very good A-Levels in science and maths subjects.

 

If you've wanted to be a doctor for ever then this is what you know you need to do. If you've not decided then that route just seems like a lot of work for a huge training period before you qualify.

 

Pay might be a part of it but it just isn't seen as a glamorous profession and I still think it is something that you really want to do or you don't and just paying people might provide a short term small fix over anything else. Personally I don't think their pay is the issue though. Only a small percentage are cut out to do it.

Most medical students seem to be going to join ISIS rather than the NHS.

The only thing I want to remember from the late 70's is a certain unforgettable night out at Ewood Park.

 

Rubbish piled up on the paths with rats the size of small donkeys marauding around the place. Aye, that socialist doyen, Baron Callaghan of Cardiff, was yet another prime example of why folk should think before they vote.

 

Up there with Churchill? FFS.

Read When The Lights Went Out. Really good book, doesn't present a socialist utopia but some really good research and narrative. I think you'd enjoy it actually.

Of course one in 1,000 of male GPs go part time to chase Olympic medals or whatever.

33.333% of The Goodies are a doctor.

one year of placement based training was bad enough.. 

 

the amount needed to become a doctor would be horrendus

Because that would benefit society maybe?

So do binmen and lollypop ladies.

 

Without them the population is at risk of hideous disease or being run over to death by buses and prostitute murdering wagon drivers.

 

It's all relative.

Read When The Lights Went Out. Really good book, doesn't present a socialist utopia but some really good research and narrative. I think you'd enjoy it actually.

 

 

If only there was a W.H. Smiths here. Linford Christie? He'd be left in my wake. 

So do binmen and lollypop ladies.

 

Without them the population is at risk of hideous disease or being run over to death by buses and prostitute murdering wagon drivers.

 

It's all relative.

It is indeed all relative

 

"Fan5 the miserable", my personal opinion is that it's about incentivisation. Yep it pays well in the end but in today's culture a "respected job" that pays well after all that study and hardship that goes with it is very off-putting to the average 18-21 year old.

 

We are in a world where instant gratification is desired and promoted

 

In my line of work I speak to many graduates with excellent A-Levels and very good degrees from red bricks; the thought of all that extra study with a huge associates debt is simply off-putting so they get jobs in other disciplines on the private sector

 

Back when I was their age there was an associated positive societal respect for doctors etc which made a lot of the top percentile of students look beyond the hardships of the education and training process....it isn't the same today; kids on a standard 3 year degree come out with the best part of £30k debt, shit themselves and look for jobs that can pay it back as quickly as possible rather than "the best career path". That has changed dramatically in the past 15 years for example, as I see it regularly.

 

Therefore some sort of incentivisation is needed to make a number of our brighter kids want to go into the profession again.

 

Yeah sure, it's a vocation and some will go onto it for altruistic or other non-fiscal reasons, but that number is dwindling big time

If only there was a W.H. Smiths here. Linford Christie? He'd be left in my wake.

Tool.

Why would anyone want to read owt that might, just might, undermine their 'I'm right, always' stance?