Leeds 2 Wanderers 1

[bgoefc]

What we've paid in the past has nothing to do with where we are now.

 

It has nothing to do with Owen Coyle either. He didnt sign any cheques or offer player contracts.

 

We owe the tax man a fortune and run at a million per month loss due to contract and outgoings right here right now. Contracts given out last summer.

 

If the shit was about to hit the fan,maybe we should have paid the tax bill instead of giving Pratley and Amos new contracts?

 

Anyways, It's not up to posters on a football forum to decipher what the plan should've been post relegation. It's up to the business men that run the club to decide that.

 

Not every club that is relegated ends up facing insolvency.

 

Of course There has been a lot of contributing factors to this demise. The same factors every single club in the land that is relegated from any division faces.

 

ED is 100% culpable for the state of the club today. It's his business. He's the boss the buck stops at him.

 

Regardless of what Jay Jay fucking Okocha was on in 2004, at this moment in time we are championship club paying top wages to crap players whilst running at £1 million loss and facing insolvency.

 

Fuck me its like saying I can't blame the mrs for using the last of the milk because our wedding day was a belter.

 

Let's all have a massive wank over Bayern Munich away at Bury next season.

 

Very valid points. 

 

Its all very good saying the spiralling debt was all owed to one man. But losing 20 - 30 million per season was unsustainable regardless of circumstances. The club was still haemorrhaging money in the premier league. The owners of this business were derelict in their duty.

[Biggish Dave]

Bloody sick of everything at the moment. Lennons decisions are poor but he has a poor pool of players to pick from. Leeds were one of the worst championship sides I've seen this year but we're still better than us.

 

The only certainty surrounding that club is we are league 1 next season - and still some happy clappers were backing Lennon yesterday. Beyond belief

[Rembrandt]

Renting out the offices made money, which is why they got snapped up

Don't think the hotel has ever pulled up any trees in terms of profit

I just can't see us ever balancing the books without either a wealthy benefactor or prem TV money

I'm just saying what the plan was. I'd have preferred re-building at Burnden, bit by bit if necessary.

[RoadRunnerFan]

In my view where you place the blame for the current mess depends on where you feel the responsibility for setting and executing the transfer strategy lies.

 

I'm a traditionalist and think the manager should be allowed to crack on, a la Rioch and Allardyce.However the hands off approach has not been successful for us more recently.

 

All the mangers we have had in this divison have had sufficient resources to do well in the league, Lennon less so but we shouldn't be bottom of the league with what we are spending.

 

Flip side if the coin is that the board/owner have appointed these managers and have ultimately signed off the spend.

 

Its easy to blame a single bogeyman but doing that probably makes similar strategic mistakes more likely in the future.

[whiteboy]

Like most of the games i've seen this season, we casually chucked the points away against a team no better than us.

 

Fair play to Feeney and Trotter, i've slated them before but they were about the only ones who looked to be seriously trying,

 

I don't get Lennon's tactics at all.

[gonzo]

Probably the most depressing thing of all is that we never seem to get pasted.

 

We just do enough to get beat every week.

[Spider]

What we've paid in the past has nothing to do with where we are now.

 

It has nothing to do with Owen Coyle either. He didnt sign any cheques or offer player contracts.

 

We owe the tax man a fortune and run at a million per month loss due to contract and outgoings right here right now. Contracts given out last summer.

 

If the shit was about to hit the fan,maybe we should have paid the tax bill instead of giving Pratley and Amos new contracts?

 

Anyways, It's not up to posters on a football forum to decipher what the plan should've been post relegation. It's up to the business men that run the club to decide that.

 

Not every club that is relegated ends up facing insolvency.

 

Of course There has been a lot of contributing factors to this demise. The same factors every single club in the land that is relegated from any division faces.

 

ED is 100% culpable for the state of the club today. It's his business. He's the boss the buck stops at him.

 

Regardless of what Jay Jay fucking Okocha was on in 2004, at this moment in time we are championship club paying top wages to crap players whilst running at £1 million loss and facing insolvency.

 

Fuck me its like saying I can't blame the mrs for using the last of the milk because our wedding day was a belter.

 

Let's all have a massive wank over Bayern Munich away at Bury next season.

 

I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

 

It's shambolic.

 

But so many factors have contributed to the state we're in that it's simply wrong to blame one man.

 

The 3rd Reich collapsed eventually but it wasn't just Adolf's fault.

[birch-chorley]

Probably the most depressing thing of all is that we never seem to get pasted.

 

We just do enough to get beat every week.

That's where I'm at with it

 

Losing by the odd goal every week

 

Makes me think that we are one or two additions away from hitting a streak of decent results

 

All too late now mind

[kent_white]

Agreed - for a team with as few points as we've got - I haven't really seen us get battered all season - with the exception of Middlesbrough and Rotherham away.

 

We've lost games by virtue of just being a little bit shit which in a strange way makes it all the more depressing. At least if you're being spanked out of sight all season you know you never really stood a chance.

 

We have stood a chance - but just fucked it up.

[Ani]

The league is full of average teams.

 

If we had a focus for our attacks we would be in a totally different position.

 

Mardine, Clough and Heskey are hardly ever involved.

 

Movies flits in and out.

 

The rest are honest, but limited triers

 

Yesterday was another forgettable game, I sat in the Kop, there was no atmosphere at all, nut just quiet but totally dead, people just chatting, the game was almost a side issue.

 

Was pleasantly merry before the game, tired at end, and back home by 545.!

[Rembrandt]

In my view where you place the blame for the current mess depends on where you feel the responsibility for setting and executing the transfer strategy lies.

 

I'm a traditionalist and think the manager should be allowed to crack on, a la Rioch and Allardyce.However the hands off approach has not been successful for us more recently.

 

All the mangers we have had in this divison have had sufficient resources to do well in the league, Lennon less so but we shouldn't be bottom of the league with what we are spending.

 

Flip side if the coin is that the board/owner have appointed these managers and have ultimately signed off the spend.

 

Its easy to blame a single bogeyman but doing that probably makes similar strategic mistakes more likely in the future.

But Rioch and Allardyce couldn't spend freely, without Board permission.

Didn't Rioch struggle to get the money to buy David Lee. Just one example.

Traditionally a Board says what money a manager has available, & he decides who needs signing.

[HR]

But Rioch and Allardyce couldn't spend freely, without Board permission.

Didn't Rioch struggle to get the money to buy David Lee. Just one example.

Traditionally a Board says what money a manager has available, & he decides who needs signing.

Yes I think it was the FA Cup run that converted his loan.

[Zico]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

 

It's shambolic.

 

But so many factors have contributed to the state we're in that it's simply wrong to blame one man.

 

The 3rd Reich collapsed eventually but it wasn't just Adolf's fault.

Well no but he's the only one still here

 

It's him, PG and whatever other board members allowed this to happen

 

It's not the fault of any manager or player all of whom were basically only here on their say so

 

When Dave Whelan, who knows how to run a club, ie has experience so knows what he's talking about, was going on about there being something badly wrong at how we're being run he wasn't on about tactics or team selections

 

It's the likes of Peter Ridsdale that ruined the likes of Leeds and Pompey, not the Redknapps and OLearys and it's the same here

 

We used to run a tighter ship with relegation clauses, budgeting for 17th and the like to the point that alladyce fucked it off

 

Then they stopped for whatever reason

 

Then managers were allowed to sign the likes of Andrews, Spearing, Baptiste and Amos when someone should've been thinking about the financials

 

And now he won't pay them or the bills and wants a cut of future tv revenue

 

Well he can fuck off, because he presided over this mess and allowed it to happen

 

And no I wasn't complaining when we signed the likes of Okocha, as it was well documented we had a plan

 

But when you have a Tyrone mears (signed when in the PL) sat on his arse taking 20k a week you'd ask questions about offering the likes of Baptiste wages that PL teams couldn't match, then seeing him barely kick all ball only to then pay Amos more than he was on at Utd all whilst it's perfectly clear we're losing money every month

 

So ED can take all the blame right now as he's the one still here whilst we seemingly heading into admin, which may have been avoided if the people he employed to help run his club had done their jobs properly

[gonzo]

Bang on Zico.

[ZiggyStardust]

That's where I'm at with it

 

Losing by the odd goal every week

 

Makes me think that we are one or two additions away from hitting a streak of decent results

 

All too late now mind

Thats probably been the problem for 4 years now, and why we have been signing that 'addition or two' to get us over the finish line.

And then the wage bill spirals.

[Arrested development]

Didn't go yesterday but sounds like same old same old. Can anyone clarify if and how feeney Ended up at RB ?

Edited March 6, 2016 by Arrested development

[Spider]

Well no but he's the only one still here

 

It's him, PG and whatever other board members allowed this to happen

 

It's not the fault of any manager or player all of whom were basically only here on their say so

 

When Dave Whelan, who knows how to run a club, ie has experience so knows what he's talking about, was going on about there being something badly wrong at how we're being run he wasn't on about tactics or team selections

 

It's the likes of Peter Ridsdale that ruined the likes of Leeds and Pompey, not the Redknapps and OLearys and it's the same here

 

We used to run a tighter ship with relegation clauses, budgeting for 17th and the like to the point that alladyce fucked it off

 

Then they stopped for whatever reason

 

Then managers were allowed to sign the likes of Andrews, Spearing, Baptiste and Amos when someone should've been thinking about the financials

 

And now he won't pay them or the bills and wants a cut of future tv revenue

 

Well he can fuck off, because he presided over this mess and allowed it to happen

 

And no I wasn't complaining when we signed the likes of Okocha, as it was well documented we had a plan

 

But when you have a Tyrone mears (signed when in the PL) sat on his arse taking 20k a week you'd ask questions about offering the likes of Baptiste wages that PL teams couldn't match, then seeing him barely kick all ball only to then pay Amos more than he was on at Utd all whilst it's perfectly clear we're losing money every month

 

So ED can take all the blame right now as he's the one still here whilst we seemingly heading into admin, which may have been avoided if the people he employed to help run his club had done their jobs properly

Fair enough.

 

Let's lynch the cunt and gibbet his body from the South West floodlight pylon.

 

He clearly did it all on purpose just to annoy us, since he proved he could run it well once upon a time.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Spider

[Zico]

Blaming him for the mess doesn't automatically make me think he's a cunt, and I'm certain he didn't do it on purpose

 

Not sure why there's always the suggestion you have to be supportive (or ignorant) of him or totally against him

 

I appreciate he's making sure the next people who take on the club are in a position to run it

 

I don't appreciate that his demands may now be holding any deal up given its his problem that the club got itself into this position that makes it hard to sell

 

If it ends in admin I can't see how you could blame anyone else, it's certainly not the fault of the people who want to buy the club not being in a position to finance it

[Zico]

And to think we used to proud of local lads done well running our club and derided clubs with foreign owners and the like questioning what would happen when they "get bored" an want to do one

 

Well its this

 

And it's shit

[Zico]

Point being, there's nowt wrong with a bit of contempt for those that allowed/let it get to this

[Spider]

Blaming him for the mess doesn't automatically make me think he's a cunt, and I'm certain he didn't do it on purpose

 

Not sure why there's always the suggestion you have to be supportive (or ignorant) of him or totally against him

 

I appreciate he's making sure the next people who take on the club are in a position to run it

 

I don't appreciate that his demands may now be holding any deal up given its his problem that the club got itself into this position that makes it hard to sell

 

If it ends in admin I can't see how you could blame anyone else, it's certainly not the fault of the people who want to buy the club not being in a position to finance it

In the here and now, that's 100% spot on Zico.

 

But it's impossible to suggest this situation has only been caused in the last year or 2, or that it's just ED. it's been coming for much longer.

 

He didn't scout Tyrone Mears, he will have trusted the people around him - as he fucking must - that the decision to buy him and put him on that wage was a good one. Clearly not, but maybe his success in other walks of life clouded his judgement.

 

Yes, his current wranglings are in poor taste, but business wise it's a football club we're talking about, not an outlet of Subway.

 

The man has got it wrong. I don't think he's had much decent advice along the way either.

[tomski]

Pay your tax bill Eddie.

[e2e4]

 

 

 

He didn't scout Tyrone Mears,

 

Not one signing of recent memory has made me go "aww , shit no " more than than that one. Not Zat Knight , not Trotter , not Elmander , not one.

 

If they signed him up after Rob Blake , then you know Coyle were just taking the piss.

[RoadRunnerFan]

But Rioch and Allardyce couldn't spend freely, without Board permission.

Didn't Rioch struggle to get the money to buy David Lee. Just one example.

Traditionally a Board says what money a manager has available, & he decides who needs signing.

 

Agree with all of that Rembrant. Rioch was given a budget and got on with it in the traditional style.

 

My question is more 'What is the role of the board in the governance process around signings?'

 

At one end of the spectrum you've got  the traditional 'There's your budget, crack on' at the other you have directors of football, transfer committee's etc. I'd guess we have adopted the traditional model.

 

We probably needed more hands on involvement in transfers from the board but that always doesn't go down well with managers or fans.

 

Also on the point of Dave Whelan raised by Zico above, didn't he fall out with Rioch over interference many years ago? He also appointed Coyle after the mess he made at our place and then compounded the error by appointing Mackay, but he appeared to be a bit senile by that point anyway. I don't think he should be held up as a beacon of how to run a club, Wigan have had some fair slices of luck along the way, particularly with sales, which has sadly eluded us - Holden and Lee were maimed, Cahill had that blood clot just before a World Cup in which Matt Upson played every game, and that's without mentioning Muamba.

 

How much freedom should we have given our managers? And more importantly how much should they have in the future?

[Gumbo]

Just read Zico's post. +1 sir.

An excellent accurate view.