28 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Obviously not all signings work out but seeing one of his major strength seemed to be his knowledge and involvement of longstanding in the loan market, I felt it fell short of even of Evatt on this

Duberry, Forss, Apter, Kenny and CBT were, on paper, a fantastic coup for a L1 club.

As you say, some work out and some don’t.

There’s no guarantee from even the best scout/recruiter in the world for a player not performing to their potential or getting injured.

We all know about ACD’s contribution. Kenny and CBT great up until injuries. Forss and Apter are real head-scratchers, they didn’t show any of the potential they were identified for.

Debatable whether Burstow, Bonham and Cissoko were a success, I’d argue they were - all contributed towards promotion. 

Throw Rodrigues into the mix, (and assuming FH influenced most signings last year) I think Harkins identification and recruitment was pretty good in his first year (as you say also taking into account he came to the party a little late from the continent)

Edited May 27May 27 by desperado

3 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Your post got me thinking, if Harkin was so highly rated then why did he end up at a third division club?

So I had a little look at his background.

He left Standard Liege following the takeover by new owners in June 2025 after only being their from May 2022.  He was appointed by Standard de Liège as their new manager in charge of deploying the sport strategy of the club in the long term.

Before that he was at City as first as a scout and later as "Football Partnerships and Pathways Manager"

A "Football Partnerships and Pathways Manager" is an executive role within a professional football club responsible for managing the player loan system and developing relationships with partner clubs. They bridge the gap between a club's youth academy and its first team by tracking and supporting loaned-out players to ensure they reach their full potential.

These managers primarily oversee the following areas:

Player Loan Management: They monitor a large pool of younger squad members sent out to other teams to gain competitive playing time, tracking their development, match minutes, and overall performance.

Partner Club Relationships: They coordinate with affiliated teams, feeder clubs, or satellite academies to align player development strategies, facilitate talent scouting, and arrange player transfers or loans.

Support Network Coordination: They often supervise a multidisciplinary support team—which can include video analysts, sports psychologists, and nutritionists—to ensure loaned players have the necessary resources to thrive away from their parent club.

Pathway Strategy: They identify the ideal competitive environment (e.g., lower divisions or foreign leagues) for each specific prospect to maximize their value and prepare them for a higher level of professional football

 

Seems to me that Harkin was basically out of a job at Liege and FV decided they needed a buffer between the manager and the transfer spending as Evatt had wasted a couple of millions of FV's money on numerous players who turned out to be duds.

I'm not having a pop at Harkin but his CV is clearly of someone who had specialised looking after players loaned out to other clubs, had one spell of three years at  Standard de Liège as their new manager in charge of deploying the sport strategy of the club in the long term, and thought so good at his role that he was let go by the new owners immediately they took over (or perhaps he didn't whish to work with them?)

Anyway he is here now, so has he done a good job so far?

Well he fulfilled the top priority of the club by getting promoted albeit not automatically.

As for player recruitment, judging by the many opinions on here of the players brought in this season under the auspices of Harkin the general consensus to me seems to be that Dalby, Kenny, Duberry and perhaps Erhahon and Taylor-Blackett were hits, Simon, Christie, Burstow, Cissoko, Burstow and Gale were ok-ish and Taylor, Apter, Sharman-Lowe, Miller and Forss being failures (Broome and Harrington having made no impact on the pitch as back up keepers)

I don't know how people would judge this performance in the transfer and loan market under Harkin's leadership but for me it would need to be significantly better for the coming season if we aren't to struggle to survive on our return to the Championship.

It is worth noting that our reliance on loan signings this season was poor if you consider that most people view only Kenny having proven himself and Blackett-Taylor given a pass because he was good in the couple of games we saw him in. 

I'm counting Cissoko's loan a failure on the basis that the club did not take up the purchase option on him.

There also seems no sign of any of the youngsters bridging the gap to the playing squad in the immediate future.

I imagine FV are pleased with Harkins leadership to date, which at the end of the day are the only people that matter but for me we need to perform significantly better in the transfer and loan markets in order to establish ourselves at the level we've waited so long to get back to.

 

 

 

Harkin was pretty open about his background on the Wanderers podcast McGinley and that other Scottish guy do.

Had to get involved in football somewhere and City was a good opportunity but when he went to Liege it was a massive learning curve for him doing all of the squad building, not just loans, and money side of it too.

Seems he's done a pretty good job to me so far. Only Taylor as a flop we need to do something with and then a core of good squad players added who will help us in the championship or have value if we want to move them on.

Even if we stayed in L1 defence was the main priority over the summer. Promotion along with Jono and Tutu leaving means we need a full new back 4 plus back ups.

The glamour signings are the attackers but solidity at the back is what will keep us up.

3 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Even if we stayed in L1 defence was the main priority over the summer. Promotion along with Jono and Tutu leaving means we need a full new back 4 plus back ups.

The glamour signings are the attackers but solidity at the back is what will keep us up.

... & keeper.

Bonham pulled some good saves but remains a worry.

Forino, btw, I'd make captain.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

Duberry, Forss, Apter, Kenny and CBT were, on paper, a fantastic coup for a L1 club.

As you say, some work out and some don’t.

There’s no guarantee from even the best scout/recruiter in the world for a player not performing to their potential or getting injured.

We all know about ACD’s contribution. Kenny and CBT great up until injuries. Forss and Apter are real head-scratchers, they didn’t show any of the potential they were identified for.

Debatable whether Burstow, Bonham and Cissoko were a success, I’d argue they were - all contributed towards promotion. 

Throw Rodrigues into the mix, (and assuming FH influenced most signings last year) I think Harkins identification and recruitment was pretty good in his first year (as you say also taking into account he came to the party a little late from the continent)

As long as FV are happy with him, that is all that matters.

When I wrote my original post I simply put together three groups based on the many opinions of others on here regarding the players, there was universal agreement in respect of a few players such as Dalby and Kenny as 'hits' and Apter and Taylor as 'Misses' and the rest were loved by some but not by others - I wasn't making any opinions myself.

Was Harkin's recruitment a success - well yes if that is what FV thinks - and by all accounts they do.

I just feel that the same level of success next season - a few hits, a few misses, and the majority being so-so would probably not be good enough to keep us in the Championship.

Like it or not we were promoted with a team still reliant greatly on Evatt's signings - Sheehan, Forino, Toal, Johnston, Tutu, less so with Dempsey and Morley and Cogley who left in December.

Gale, Simon and Erhahon were fee signings and never really nailed a starting position in the team, Taylor was signed on a free but on a 3 year contract and now deemed to be unselectable by Schumacher, none of the loans have yet to be signed (fingers crossed obviously for Duberry and Kenny).

That to my mind leaves us deficient of even a core of players to build this years recruitment around the likes of Dalby, Rodrigues, Toal, Forino, Sheehan and who else?

And all to be built within the new EFL financial rules (which in its simplest terms seems to be a wage/transfer cap).

Anyway we shall see what rabbits Harkin can pull out of his hat considering this time he has had a full a spring and summer to work with.

Edited May 27May 27 by Sluffy
minor correction needed

We overhauled the squad and got promoted, so you would have to say that's a pretty good fuckin start for Harkin

3 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

we shall see what rabbits Harkin can pull out of his hat

I’m happy if the rabbits are as good as this season.

Objective achieved.

Every reason to be optimistic he can do it again or even better it. 

I think what we say yesterday is the benefit of having a director of football. Two plans - one for going up, one for staying down. The minute we go up, bang, within 48 hours the decks are cleared and everyone knows where they stand. Now we hopefully see the rest unfold. Without someone in that role we may have been farting about before a good few days before getting to this point. 

Anyway - let's hope the scouting, insight and player judgement is as good as the forward planning. Exciting times to be a white.

 

1 hour ago, Stig said:

Only Taylor as a flop ....

And there's an unknown story there. Whatever it is.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

Duberry, Forss, Apter, Kenny and CBT were, on paper, a fantastic coup for a L1 club.

As you say, some work out and some don’t.

There’s no guarantee from even the best scout/recruiter in the world for a player not performing to their potential or getting injured.

We all know about ACD’s contribution. Kenny and CBT great up until injuries. Forss and Apter are real head-scratchers, they didn’t show any of the potential they were identified for.

Debatable whether Burstow, Bonham and Cissoko were a success, I’d argue they were - all contributed towards promotion. 

Throw Rodrigues into the mix, (and assuming FH influenced most signings last year) I think Harkins identification and recruitment was pretty good in his first year (as you say also taking into account he came to the party a little late from the continent)

Selling Morley and getting Ruben on a free was superb business 

2 minutes ago, L/H White said:

Selling Morley and getting Ruben on a free was superb business 

25482 posts and that is best point you have made, let’s not wait as long for the next one please .

16 minutes ago, L/H White said:

Selling Morley and getting Ruben on a free was superb business 

It really was.

What a contribution Rodrigues has made. Without him we may not have been promoted. 

He was the best rabbit out of the hat! 😂

Edited May 27May 27 by desperado

3 minutes ago, desperado said:

It really was.

What a contribution Rodrigues has made. Without him we may not have been promoted. 

He was the bestrabbit out of the hat! 😂

Quality player 

2 minutes ago, boltonboris said:

We overhauled the squad and got promoted, so you would have to say that's a pretty good fuckin start for Harkin

You seem to have issues with me?

Anyway  the squad was still built around Evatt's signings - Sheehan, Toal, McAtee, Johnston, Tutu, Forino, to a less extent Dempsey and until January, Morley and Cogley.

Simon, Gale and Erhahon were bought but never really nailed down a place in a League 1 side, the keeper we had for the season was so bad he went back in January and none of our loans have been turned into signings (so far anyway).

Yes promotion was achieved but the side still relied heavily on Evatt's signings even though the players that Harkin brought in such as Simon, Gale, Erhahon and the loanees were presumably brought in to replace them.

Indeed we brought in two players (Cissoko and Blackett-Taylor) to start ahead of Gale who reportedly we paid £600k in the summer.

Job done, promotion, everybody happy - but that was never my point.

My point has been recruitment needs to be better next season if we are to stay up as few of this seasons signings and loans look to be able to become Championship regulars with us if they struggled to get in the team this season.

Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't and we still stay up.

Who knows?

It's just my observation on how I see things.

1 hour ago, Sluffy said:

Well it isn't me that is judging him, I simply went off BWFC not taking up the agree purchase price of him following his loan period.

I assume from that they 'thought' he had the potential to be a Championship player with us (remember FV's stated objective was to achieve automatic promotion), and we did mange promotion through the play offs but still we didn't sign him.

I take from that he was in the same class as Johnston, Dempsey and Tutu who were at the end of their contracts too and deemed not likely to make the step up to the Championship.

If in the eyes of BWFC he had been a success by their criteria then I would have imagined they would have signed him for the fee agreed for him.

 

 

Well, quite clearly, it is you judging him.

You are the one calling the loan as a failure.

 

Quote

I'm counting Cissoko's loan a failure on the basis that the club did not take up the purchase option on him.

 

The club will see it as a success, as they have not had to pay £1m+ to see if he would work out or not.

I assume you know if it was us, or the loaning club, who insisted on the option to buy was inserted ?

If so, please do enlighten us.

If it was Toulouse who insisted on it, it may be that Wanderers had no intention whatsoever of buying him.

3 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

If it was Toulouse who insisted on it, it may be that Wanderers had no intention whatsoever of buying him.

If it was simply down to price, not any disrespect to his ability, discussions could still be had.

17 minutes ago, Ani said:

25482 posts and that is best point you have made, let’s not wait as long for the next one please .

Thank you x

???

But I'm not judging him, I've used the clubs decision on him.

I actually told you that in the quote of mine that you used!

 

To answer your question surely both both sides would agree on the fee that is put in the contract otherwise no one would sign the loan contact.

Would they?

5 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Your post got me thinking, if Harkin was so highly rated then why did he end up at a third division club?

So I had a little look at his background.

He left Standard Liege following the takeover by new owners in June 2025 after only being their from May 2022.  He was appointed by Standard de Liège as their new manager in charge of deploying the sport strategy of the club in the long term.

Before that he was at City as first as a scout and later as "Football Partnerships and Pathways Manager"

A "Football Partnerships and Pathways Manager" is an executive role within a professional football club responsible for managing the player loan system and developing relationships with partner clubs. They bridge the gap between a club's youth academy and its first team by tracking and supporting loaned-out players to ensure they reach their full potential.

These managers primarily oversee the following areas:

Player Loan Management: They monitor a large pool of younger squad members sent out to other teams to gain competitive playing time, tracking their development, match minutes, and overall performance.

Partner Club Relationships: They coordinate with affiliated teams, feeder clubs, or satellite academies to align player development strategies, facilitate talent scouting, and arrange player transfers or loans.

Support Network Coordination: They often supervise a multidisciplinary support team—which can include video analysts, sports psychologists, and nutritionists—to ensure loaned players have the necessary resources to thrive away from their parent club.

Pathway Strategy: They identify the ideal competitive environment (e.g., lower divisions or foreign leagues) for each specific prospect to maximize their value and prepare them for a higher level of professional football

 

Seems to me that Harkin was basically out of a job at Liege and FV decided they needed a buffer between the manager and the transfer spending as Evatt had wasted a couple of millions of FV's money on numerous players who turned out to be duds.

I'm not having a pop at Harkin but his CV is clearly of someone who had specialised looking after players loaned out to other clubs, had one spell of three years at  Standard de Liège as their new manager in charge of deploying the sport strategy of the club in the long term, and thought so good at his role that he was let go by the new owners immediately they took over (or perhaps he didn't whish to work with them?)

Anyway he is here now, so has he done a good job so far?

Well he fulfilled the top priority of the club by getting promoted albeit not automatically.

As for player recruitment, judging by the many opinions on here of the players brought in this season under the auspices of Harkin the general consensus to me seems to be that Dalby, Kenny, Duberry and perhaps Erhahon and Taylor-Blackett were hits, Simon, Christie, Burstow, Cissoko, Burstow and Gale were ok-ish and Taylor, Apter, Sharman-Lowe, Miller and Forss being failures (Broome and Harrington having made no impact on the pitch as back up keepers)

I don't know how people would judge this performance in the transfer and loan market under Harkin's leadership but for me it would need to be significantly better for the coming season if we aren't to struggle to survive on our return to the Championship.

It is worth noting that our reliance on loan signings this season was poor if you consider that most people view only Kenny having proven himself and Blackett-Taylor given a pass because he was good in the couple of games we saw him in. 

I'm counting Cissoko's loan a failure on the basis that the club did not take up the purchase option on him.

There also seems no sign of any of the youngsters bridging the gap to the playing squad in the immediate future.

I imagine FV are pleased with Harkins leadership to date, which at the end of the day are the only people that matter but for me we need to perform significantly better in the transfer and loan markets in order to establish ourselves at the level we've waited so long to get back to.

 

 

 

Can anyone summarise 

Part of it is that Fergal still has a house in the Manchester area and this is an easy commute for him

Zico close the board down till August.

6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Can anyone summarise 

Harkin got promotion - good

Promotion side still relied heavily on Evatt players.

Harkins signings seemingly made to establish themselves in a third tier site only worked in a few instances.

Now a division above and most Evatt signings gone we are short of Championship quality players to build a new side around.

Conclusion new signings need to establish themselves even more so in a side now in the Championship, as most of last seasons permanent signings didn't nail down a place whilst in the third division, and are still with us.

Happy to help.

39 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

You seem to have issues with me?

Anyway  the squad was still built around Evatt's signings - Sheehan, Toal, McAtee, Johnston, Tutu, Forino, to a less extent Dempsey and until January, Morley and Cogley.

Simon, Gale and Erhahon were bought but never really nailed down a place in a League 1 side, the keeper we had for the season was so bad he went back in January and none of our loans have been turned into signings (so far anyway).

Yes promotion was achieved but the side still relied heavily on Evatt's signings even though the players that Harkin brought in such as Simon, Gale, Erhahon and the loanees were presumably brought in to replace them.

Indeed we brought in two players (Cissoko and Blackett-Taylor) to start ahead of Gale who reportedly we paid £600k in the summer.

Job done, promotion, everybody happy - but that was never my point.

My point has been recruitment needs to be better next season if we are to stay up as few of this seasons signings and loans look to be able to become Championship regulars with us if they struggled to get in the team this season.

Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't and we still stay up.

Who knows?

It's just my observation on how I see things.

I have a alternative view the reason we never got promotion Automatically was because we still had too many Evatt players in the building. We cleared what we could last summer and no surprise to see another  three discarded in January. Think we are down to five and i would guess three of those may not last the Summer.

We never relied on those players this season .....We stumbled through and two put in great performances in the play-offs but not enough the whole season to give them a new contract. That is not having a go at the three who we released. SS just thinks they are not Championship standard.

..

 

SS soon  carried on the axe this week and if he got offers for most of the others they will be gone

Just seem Randall in the Trafford Centre.

Really nice guy, posed for a selfie, said I'm looking forward to him producing the goods next season 

23 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Can anyone summarise 

I pasted it into Chat GPT but got a 404 error message back