Last I heard, it was court tomorrow

 

ST and Lies reported 3, including Heathcotes mob

 

KA said that was old news, leaving 2

 

 

Now, I can see HMRC is definitely a club issue,but the other is Sport Shield

 

If we assume KA can deal with HMRC debt - I'd have been happier if he had sorted that one already, tbf- that 'just' leaves SS and blumarble

 

If the court agrees to wind up SS, do we know what that means and also the impact on BWFC

Edited May 21, 20179 yr by Casino

 

It seems to me that some people would cut their nose off to spite their face.

 

Because they hate the ST, they actually want an owner who hasn't put anything in to get a payday from selling the ground off.

 

 

not at all. 

 

just because you hate the trust doesn't mean you are blind to the fact KA will make a profit one day. 

 

he deserves a profit eventually. 

 

KA has saved our club. whether you like it or not we wouldn't be here without him. 

 

It seems to me that some people would cut their nose off to spite their face.

 

Because they hate the ST, they actually want an owner who hasn't put anything in to get a payday from selling the ground off.

Absolute bollocks.

 

Nobody wants KA to sell the ground. Most people realise it's all complete waste of time, and an unnecessary side show to what is already a desperate situation.

 

The club have no money, KA has no money and we need investment.

 

This ACV can't stop KA selling the ground. But it is clearly worth fighting for.

 

Let the buinsess men run the club for fucks sake.

Absolute bollocks.

 

Nobody wants KA to sell the ground. Most people realise it's all complete waste of time, and an unnecessary side show to what is already a desperate situation.

 

The club have no money, KA has no money and we need investment.

 

This ACV can't stop KA selling the ground. But it is clearly worth fighting for.

 

Let the buinsess men run the club for fucks sake.

I don't want Ken to raise money on the clubs assets, thats what he wants to do upto date he's put fuck all in financially.

Edited October 3, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

I don't want Ken to raise money on the clubs assets, thats what he wants to do upto date he's put fuck all in financially.

How do you want him to raise money then?

 

He can't put in what he hasn't got ffs.

How do you want him to raise money then?

 

He can't put in what he hasn't got ffs.

He should raise it with personal guarantees not against club assets.

He should raise it with personal guarantees not against club assets.

Why don't you do the same?

He should raise it with personal guarantees not against club assets.

He may not be in a position to do that. Especially given some of his previous activities. Perhaps the club's assets offer more security.

Fuck knows, just surmising.

 

In all fairness to ken, his efforts to get the club on a more sustainable footing seem to be paying dividends. Perhaps in time we may be in a position to start making a small profit. Presumably once the loans are paid off.

Why don't you do the same?

I'm thinking his assets might be a bit more than mine. Raising finance on the club assets and then paying back loans from club revenue isn't ideal. Then he's looking to sell the club for a profit without putting anything in personally other than his time and effort and folk want the ACV removing while KA won't answer questions as to why he wants it removing. It's akin to dropping your trousers and touching your toes and hoping for the best.

Edited October 3, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

Once again I'll reiterate.

 

Just because you are a majority shareholder in a football club it doesn't automatically make you in to multi millionaire, nor should it mean you have to put everything you own in to it.

 

The last time we signed a load of IOU's off to a lucrative owner we ended up £180m in debt and facing insolvency.

 

Honestly, people really do need to get a grip and remember this isn't championship manager.

 

KA is here to restructure the finances of the club. Not pour millions in to it.

I'm thinking his assets might be a bit more than mine. Raising finance on the club assets and then paying back loans from club revenue isn't ideal. Then he's looking to sell the club for a profit without putting anything in personally other than his time and effort and folk want the ACV removing while KA won't answer questions as to why he wants it removing. It's akin to dropping your trousers and touching your toes and hoping for the best.

If you ran your own business would you put your house against it to raise money? Or would you use whatever assets that business had to raise cash?

Once again I'll reiterate.

 

Just because you are a majority shareholder in a football club it doesn't automatically make you in to multi millionaire, nor should it mean you have to put everything you own in to it.

 

The last time we signed a load of IOU's off to a lucrative owner we ended up £180m in debt and facing insolvency.

 

Honestly, people really do need to get a grip and remember this isn't championship manager.

 

KA is here to restructure the finances of the club. Not pour millions in to it.

when you buy a business you are supposed to invest money or borrow against your personal assets, that he won't worries me that he wants ACV removing sends alarm bells ringing. You might be happy with that I'll tell you most fans are not.

Edited October 3, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

If you ran your own business would you put your house against it to raise money? Or would you use whatever assets that business had to raise cash?

Personally I'd raise cash against my house because I'd have the courgage of my convictions.

Personally I'd raise cash against my house because I'd have the courgage of my convictions.

I hope for you're sake you never your own business.

Personally I'd raise cash against my house because I'd have the courgage of my convictions.

Mental. What sort of husband and father would risk everything he and his family have at home by betting it all on a business losing 12M a year.

 

Absolutely crackers

My understanding is that KA wants the ACV removing because it makes it difficult for the club to raise money secured against the assetts & because it could put off potential investors who wouldn't want whoppers like the ST interfering in business matters.

 

The question should be, why are the ST so keen on the ACV when the club are so against it, it is already costing the club money we cannot afford in legal fees & could be putting investors off ......... it isn't to stop KA selling the ground because it doesn't !!

 

Maybe it's because the ST are clueless bellends who are happy to damage the club for their own self interest.

when you buy a business you are supposed to invest money or borrow against your personal assets, that he won't worries me that he wants ACV removing sends alarm bells ringing. You might be happy with that I'll tell you most fans are not.

Most fans don't understand how a business is run then. The idea that any owner of a business should borrow money against their own assets is a ridiculous idea, it's one of the main reasons why company's are set up, to limit liabilities to the company and not then on to a owner personally.

You seem to think that we are just going to walk to a bank, ask them if we can borrow £10m, tell them they can have the stadium if we don't pay it back and walk off with an inflated bank balance.

In reality we would have to prove what the money is for, that it will produce a required rate of return (factoring in the interest and loan repayments), show cash flow forecasts, probably go through some due diligence, produce differing scenarios etc, all before we even get to the point of what we secure the loan against.

I don't know what effect, if any, an ACV has on that whole process, I've tried to find out whether it reduces the market value of the stadium and could therefore affect the amount that we could borrow against it but I couldn't find anything. However, Ken selling the stadium makes no sense when he is obviously trying to make the club as attractive as possible (the more attractive to an investor the more money he makes from a sale), selling the ground goes against everything he has done so far. I do think that he could make it more clear for people if he explained why he is against the ACV (i.e. That it reduces the clubs ability to borrow funds), however even if without that I still lean towards his ability to run a successful business rather than the insignificance that is the Trust's reasoning for why it is definitely needed.

Genuine question, are we a Club that can afford to own our own stadium in the long term?

Most fans don't understand how a business is run then. The idea that any owner of a business should borrow money against their own assets is a ridiculous idea, it's one of the main reasons why company's are set up, to limit liabilities to the company and not then on to a owner personally.

You seem to think that we are just going to walk to a bank, ask them if we can borrow £10m, tell them they can have the stadium if we don't pay it back and walk off with an inflated bank balance.

In reality we would have to prove what the money is for, that it will produce a required rate of return (factoring in the interest and loan repayments), show cash flow forecasts, probably go through some due diligence, produce differing scenarios etc, all before we even get to the point of what we secure the loan against.

I don't know what effect, if any, an ACV has on that whole process, I've tried to find out whether it reduces the market value of the stadium and could therefore affect the amount that we could borrow against it but I couldn't find anything. However, Ken selling the stadium makes no sense when he is obviously trying to make the club as attractive as possible (the more attractive to an investor the more money he makes from a sale), selling the ground goes against everything he has done so far. I do think that he could make it more clear for people if he explained why he is against the ACV (i.e. That it reduces the clubs ability to borrow funds), however even if without that I still lean towards his ability to run a successful business rather than the insignificance that is the Trust's reasoning for why it is definitely needed.

I fully understand how setting up a business works, if the person who buys the business can't show the banks the cash flow, profit return forecasts etc the banks are not going to lend the money I would think that is KA current postion hence he's trying to raise cash against BWFC assets wheras I'd prefer he risked some of his own capital after all he will benefit should he find a buyer.

Mental. What sort of husband and father would risk everything he and his family have at home by betting it all on a business losing 12M a year.

 

Absolutely crackers

He's not a normal joe he's not got a 2 up 2 down terrace in Halliwell. He's a wealthy tax dodger based in Monaco. He's got money but he would rather use the stadium as a piggy bank than invest some of his own money. I really hope the ACV gets upheld, he might own the club but I'm not in favour of giving him a free hand with the clubs future without him giving some transparency on his plans.

Edited October 3, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

My understanding is that KA wants the ACV removing because it makes it difficult for the club to raise money secured against the assetts & because it could put off potential investors who wouldn't want whoppers like the ST interfering in business matters.

 

The question should be, why are the ST so keen on the ACV when the club are so against it, it is already costing the club money we cannot afford in legal fees & could be putting investors off ......... it isn't to stop KA selling the ground because it doesn't !!

 

Maybe it's because the ST are clueless bellends who are happy to damage the club for their own self interest.

Thankfully the ST are not clueless bell ends, but have have folk involved who know their stuff maybe just one day the clueless bellends on here might appreciate that but I'll not hold my breath.

 

PS if KA could give some transparency on his plans then that might help the council decide on removing the ACV. Again I won't hold my breath.

Edited October 3, 20178 yr by Mounts Kipper

Which folk know their stuff?

Which folk know their stuff?

There's genuine folk on the steering committee life long fans 40 and 50 years plus who know their stuff and giving their time free of charge, however it's not my place to name folk.

There's genuine folk on the steering committee life long fans 40 and 50 years plus who know their stuff and giving their time free of charge, however it's not my place to name folk.

 

 

Have any of them built up a multi million pound business? Or been involved in the ins and outs of  football transfers for years?

 

If not they don't know any more 'stuff' than you or I

Any one who thinks the club would be in a safer position by removing the AVC is a mentalist.    

 

Apart from it being an ACV rather than a AVC that you have put (I'm not being picky about a typo but the fact that as it is the whole reason for what is currently going on with your beloved Trust and Anderson and thus you have no excuse for incorrectly typing out the three letter acronym for Asset of Community Value) I have one simple question.

 

If ACV's are so 'wonderful', why (according to the Supporters Direct's own statement) have only 50 or so clubs (out of the 92 clubs in the English top four tiers and forty plus Scottish league clubs?

 

They seem fairly easy to obtain, so why have well over half of the ST's of the clubs in England and Scotland not bothered getting one?

 

Is it because perhaps that they work with, rather than against, their club owners, or is it because they don't think they a worth the paper they are written on, or both?

 

Or are the other 100 or so other ST's of other clubs really badly run compared to our ST?

 

If so God help them.

There's genuine folk on the steering committee life long fans 40 and 50 years plus who know their stuff and giving their time free of charge, however it's not my place to name folk.

Micks answered you, for me

 

I'm not sure what this stuff is that they know but I'd not fancy all of em combined to have done the job KA has done so far

 

What qualifications have they got that tells me they know stuff

 

Beyond being lifelong fans