What is that "mate" of mine Sadiq Khan trying to achieve ?

 

You lost you demented little cretin, get over it and concentrate on your job you terrorist sympathiser.

It's about time the government started talking about no deal. If we're serious about getting a good deal we have to take it right to the wire and show zero fear.

 

The problem being the government can't agree with itself let alone anyone else. This is a shambles. The biggest shambles of the last 50 years. Total and utter car crash politics. 

It's about time the government started talking about no deal. If we're serious about getting a good deal we have to take it right to the wire and show zero fear.

I agree. Our lot aren't strong enough to negotiate, and the EU don't appear to be for budging much.

 

We need to prepare for WTO terms.

 

Fuck knows why we seem to be so feckless at the minute....although having May & Davis as our frontline is a bit of a joke (especially as we know May doesn't actually want us to leave). Also our own parliament can't decide between them what they want/need

 

Even if we go WTO we will survive, but it will be shit for a while.. ..couple tgat with Labour winning the next GE and we could be in for a cracking 15~20 years.

Edited October 10, 20178 yr by Sweep

I agree. Our lot aren't strong enough to negotiate, and the EU don't appear to be for budging much.

 

We need to prepare for WTO terms.

 

Fuck knows why we seem to be so feckless at the minute....although having May & Davis as our frontline is a bit of a joke (especially as we know May doesn't actually want us to leave). Also our own parliament can't decide between them what they want/need

 

Even if we go WTO we will survive, but it will be shit for a while.. ..couple tgat with Labour winning the next GE and we could be in for a cracking 15~20 years.

 

Labour won't win. Would be better if they, or anyone else, did. But we'll have a hung parliament and a mess.

 

Corbyn outright would be better than Corbyn, Sturgeon and Cable trying to cobble something together. Which is all I can see happening. Will last a year then another election. 

 

 

Corbyn, Sturgeon and Cable trying to cobble something together.

Can you imagine......

It would make for compelling viewing - just like the Three Stooges always was.

Can you imagine......

Well, it would see socialism off for another generation

I agree. Our lot aren't strong enough to negotiate, and the EU don't appear to be for budging much.

We need to prepare for WTO terms.

Fuck knows why we seem to be so feckless at the minute....although having May & Davis as our frontline is a bit of a joke (especially as we know May doesn't actually want us to leave). Also our own parliament can't decide between them what they want/need

Even if we go WTO we will survive, but it will be shit for a while.. ..couple tgat with Labour winning the next GE and we could be in for a cracking 15~20 years.

I reckon its deliberate; good cop/bad cop type thing. Boris shooting from the hip, TM offering a more measured approach.

Any road; even if the pm was a remainer, she still has the responsibility of undertaking the job. Whoever was in charge was going to have it tough.

I reckon its deliberate; good cop/bad cop type thing. Boris shooting from the hip, TM offering a more measured approach.

Any road; even if the pm was a remainer, she still has the responsibility of undertaking the job. Whoever was in charge was going to have it tough.

 

Deliberate? Good one. That joke will keep me going till lunch. 

Deliberate? Good one. That joke will keep me going till lunch.

Possibly "deliberate" in fucking it up so that the public swerve more to remain, and then we just decide it's too much hassle and we stay

Possibly "deliberate" in fucking it up so that the public swerve more to remain, and then we just decide it's too much hassle and we stay

And Theresa May will sacrifice her political career by being useless. What a heroine!

Deliberate? Good one. That joke will keep me going till lunch.

 

Well no actually not deliberate, but some of you remainers need to put the razors down. A tongue in cheek comment and you can't wait to go off on one.

Cabinet members etc going off at tangents clearly doesn't help, but by the fuck, why get yourself into such a state over something that hasn't been sorted yet, let alone its impact.

Well no actually not deliberate, but some of you remainers need to put the razors down. A tongue in cheek comment and you can't wait to go off on one.

Cabinet members etc going off at tangents clearly doesn't help, but by the fuck, why get yourself into such a state over something that hasn't been sorted yet, let alone its impact.

 

It was meant to all be sorted in a few months - worst case scenario.

Now we're looking at 4 years of uncertainty if the 2 year interim arrangement period is ever agreed.

 

We're going out with the worst possible negotiating team, the worst possible government, an incredibly weak position and are treating it as an adversarial process, rather than trying to actually negotiate a position that will work for both sides.  Whilst we're doing this the economy is grinding to a halt and the governing party are preparing for a coup to remove their leader. The runners and riders behind her are to be frank, the most scary collection of creatures you could ever imagine.

 

Its one thing going out, its another looking entirely incompetent whilst doing so. And its the Brexiteers pushing the process. Davis, Boris etc...they're just digging this hole, deeper and deeper. The government hate each other, the main opposition hate each other - but are hiding it badly, the 3rd party are lead by one of the least credible politicians in living history who is desperately trying to re-write history and failing. The whole thing is a shambolic mess. I wish it was like football where you could just sack them and bring someone new in. Cameron back as PM with Blair as his assistant.....

We hold all the cards though.

It was meant to all be sorted in a few months - worst case scenario.

Now we're looking at 4 years of uncertainty if the 2 year interim arrangement period is ever agreed.

 

We're going out with the worst possible negotiating team, the worst possible government, an incredibly weak position and are treating it as an adversarial process, rather than trying to actually negotiate a position that will work for both sides. Whilst we're doing this the economy is grinding to a halt and the governing party are preparing for a coup to remove their leader. The runners and riders behind her are to be frank, the most scary collection of creatures you could ever imagine.

 

Its one thing going out, its another looking entirely incompetent whilst doing so. And its the Brexiteers pushing the process. Davis, Boris etc...they're just digging this hole, deeper and deeper. The government hate each other, the main opposition hate each other - but are hiding it badly, the 3rd party are lead by one of the least credible politicians in living history who is desperately trying to re-write history and failing. The whole thing is a shambolic mess. I wish it was like football where you could just sack them and bring someone new in. Cameron back as PM with Blair as his assistant.....

Hard not to agree with that. The irony is that people like you will be blamed for not being positive enough.

We hold all the cards though.

 

And if we don't deal, we'll still have all 52 plus Boris & May

Interesting signs about the SNP at the moment. The latest poll shows that whilst they would still be the biggest single party in Hollyrood, pro Union parties would be larger overall, with a 6 point gain for the Conservatives, and Labour taking a section of the younger progressive votes with Corbyn. Its squeezing the SMP vote which is way down on the 20 point lead they had a few years ago.

 

Personally I think we're already on the downside of the high watermark of 'progressive nationalism' in Scotland, as it's still fundamentally nationalism which is a bit of a route to nowhere for progressive politics.  So when talking about a three way power share in a coalition, I'd preach caution around the SNP depending on when we have another GE.

 

This week Richard Thaler won the Nobel Prize for Economics for his work in Behavioral Economics. His thoughts on Brexit are interesting as this is exactly his field of study. http://uk.businessinsider.com/thaler-brexit-shows-irrational-behavior-2016-6 

 

Just for those who want to say this is an opinion on 'thick people voted Brexit' - its not. It just shows an expert in the field giving his view on the reason why a country would vote a certain way on a national single issue.

Your link doesn't seem to work.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/thaler-brexit-shows-irrational-behavior-2016-6

 

Might work now perhaps?

Interesting signs about the SNP at the moment. The latest poll shows that whilst they would still be the biggest single party in Hollyrood, pro Union parties would be larger overall, with a 6 point gain for the Conservatives, and Labour taking a section of the younger progressive votes with Corbyn. Its squeezing the SMP vote which is way down on the 20 point lead they had a few years ago.

 

Personally I think we're already on the downside of the high watermark of 'progressive nationalism' in Scotland, as it's still fundamentally nationalism which is a bit of a route to nowhere for progressive politics.  So when talking about a three way power share in a coalition, I'd preach caution around the SNP depending on when we have another GE.

 

This week Richard Thaler won the Nobel Prize for Economics for his work in Behavioral Economics. His thoughts on Brexit are interesting as this is exactly his field of study. http://uk.businessinsider.com/thaler-brexit-shows-irrational-behavior-2016-6 

 

Just for those who want to say this is an opinion on 'thick people voted Brexit' - its not. It just shows an expert in the field giving his view on the reason why a country would vote a certain way on a national single issue.

 

 

so, where does scotland go

 

can davidson continue her improvement of tory fortunes or do the disaffected snp'ers jump to labour

 

looking at how successful corbyn has been in energising folk he has a chance of getting on side, will we see big efforts north of the border?

He could certainly try and do what he did in England and re energise the Left - it would leave places like Gallaway, Inverness, Aberdeen, Edinburgh a bit more open to Davidson as they would have a similar issue to the centrists in England I would have thought.

 

I’m not saying it’s the end of the SNP, just some interesting shifts and if Salmon can lose an 6k plus majority then anything is possible.

so, where does scotland go

 

can davidson continue her improvement of tory fortunes or do the disaffected snp'ers jump to labour

 

looking at how successful corbyn has been in energising folk he has a chance of getting on side, will we see big efforts north of the border?

 

Corbyn has a problem because his socialism would generally appeal to a lot of Scottish voters, especially ones drifting from the SNP. But he is the face of London and Westminster politics to many Scots. Lives in London, works in London, speaks London. I doubt its an easy sell to be honest. 

 

The SNP direct protest vote is Tory, so I suspect their vote will hold up, but probably not increase much north of the border. 

Corbyn has a problem because his socialism would generally appeal to a lot of Scottish voters, especially ones drifting from the SNP. But he is the face of London and Westminster politics to many Scots. Lives in London, works in London, speaks London. I doubt its an easy sell to be honest. 

 

The SNP direct protest vote is Tory, so I suspect their vote will hold up, but probably not increase much north of the border. 

However, Scottish Labour is generally more centrist than its neighbours - they didn't experience the Corybn membership bump that Wales and England did.

 

Labour is currently on 25%, Conservative on 26% and SNP on 41%, it will be interesting to see if this 6 point increase for Labour continues. On the referendum, the pro-Union vote has increased slightly. 

Its an interesting little article that NiC.

 

In fairness though, very few people actually have the full and accurate facts to undertake a proper cost benefit analysis.

 

Moreover when it comes to polling generally, I'd suggest the vast majority don't vote according to some analysis or other; its very much on principles and gut feelings about the best path to follow.

 

With brexit, for me at least, the economics of the situation weren't my highest priority; in the years to come they will sort themselves out and natural fluctuations will continue.

Other reasons were more important, things that are difficult to quantify.

Edited October 10, 20178 yr by Tonge moor green jacket

i was listening to clegg at dinner time

 

he mentioned how the leavers were obsessed with getting our borders back

 

plans are now afoot to create a border between NI and ROI that nobody wants to enforce

However, Scottish Labour is generally more centrist than its neighbours - they didn't experience the Corybn membership bump that Wales and England did.

 

Labour is currently on 25%, Conservative on 26% and SNP on 41%, it will be interesting to see if this 6 point increase for Labour continues. On the referendum, the pro-Union vote has increased slightly. 

 

Indeed. But Scottish Labour won't make inroads if they're isolated from the main party. Corbyn fronting something might, be Scotland is a tougher battle for him than many other parts of the UK.