Politics

[RoadRunnerFan]

10 minutes ago, Cheese said:

These things don't happen overnight. The NHS is already a long way down the road of being privatised. It'll never be a Manifesto Pledge.

It really isn't @Cheese 

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/how-much-planned-care-in-england-is-delivered-and-funded-privately

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

It really isn't @Cheese 

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/how-much-planned-care-in-england-is-delivered-and-funded-privately

I suppose it depends what you consider "a long way down the road". It looks like they've spent the last couple of decades setting up the domino's to me.

[RoadRunnerFan]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I suppose it depends what you consider "a long way down the road". It looks like they've spent the last couple of decades setting up the domino's to me.

Spent a long time to not get very far then. 

As someone who works in the service I believe its more cock up than conspiracy from the Govt.

You could argue the 2012/13 Lansley reforms were a step in that direction but they have been quietly undone. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by RoadRunnerFan

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

The NHS as all public services are currently screwed from 14 years of mis management. Privatising them is what some would argue the mis management has all been about.

Surely the first question is how do we make them fit for purpose not 'sell them'. 
Immigration we will have spunked 3-400 million on the Rwanda scheme. NHS is inefficient and we spunk 100s of millions a year on agency staff rather than supporting existing staff and developing world class training schemes to bring new staff on line and develop other staff to develop rather than jump ship for the Agency money or fuck off to Oz.

None of it is going to be easy but giving up on public services and selling it off is not the only option. Yes it needs reform but you do not flush it all away. Look how fucked up PPE contracts were in pandemic, all the utility companies owned by foreigners, trains similar. Everyone who voted for Brexit must be up in arms that we will sell the family silver to the highest bidder and hand over control. Even after all the money from the side of the bus ! 
 

The sad thing is I think the sell off is inevitable and then we will no longer have the option to control our own destiny. 

I'm absolutely certain that if they took everything there is to be taken on the NHS (process, budgets, things like that) you could train AI to come up with a way to make the management of it slick as fuck 

I would like to think you could do that with most public services with logistics, budgets, processes and stuff like that that are currently hemorrhaging money

Wouldn't be overnight 

But that's what they should be using AI for 

Streamlining and efficiency

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

10 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

It really isn't @Cheese 

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/how-much-planned-care-in-england-is-delivered-and-funded-privately

Contracting to private providers is not the same thing as privatisation

But even then, the percentage of the NHS budget spent on contracts with private providers has remained broadly the same for a decade

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Spent a long time to not get very far then. 

As someone who works in the service I believe its more cock up than conspiracy from the Govt.

You could argue the 2012/13 Lansley reforms were a step in that direction but they have been quietly undone. 

As I said, these things don't happen overnight.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Guess we'll see what Wes Street Streeting has in store in the not too distant future.

His previous comments have been quite refreshing. 

[RoadRunnerFan]

3 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Contracting to private providers is not the same thing as privatisation

But even then, the percentage of the NHS budget spent on contracts with private providers has remained broadly the same for a decade

Enlighten me then

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Guess we'll see what Wes Street Streeting has in store in the not too distant future.

His previous comments have been quite refreshing. 

He seems quite good

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Enlighten me then

Privatisation is when the service is sold outright to a private company

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Enlighten me then

Not fully privatised.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

He seems quite good

Aye.

From experience, some of the best quality treatment has been via the private companies they use.

Spa Medica for my cataract- Christ they look after you. Brilliant. 

[RoadRunnerFan]

Just now, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Privatisation is when the service is sold outright to a private company

 

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not fully privatised.

Well none of it is privatised then.

The closest thing is contracted out activity which is minimal as per above. 

[RoadRunnerFan]

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye.

From experience, some of the best quality treatment has been via the private companies they use.

Spa Medica for my cataract- Christ they look after you. Brilliant. 

Course they do. They get the same tariff for as the hospital for routine cataracts etc. They don't train any staff or have pesky emergencies to deal with. Absolutely the type of stuff that makes sense to contract out, but the differences in cost above should be recognised.

No problem with them BTW they did a grand job for my mums cataracts and my B-I-L drives for them. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by RoadRunnerFan

[RoadRunnerFan]

Double post

Edited December 13, 2023 by RoadRunnerFan

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Course they do. They get the same tariff for as the hospital for routine cataracts etc. They don't train any staff or have pesky emergencies to deal with. Absolutely the type of stuff that makes sense to contact out, but the differences in cost above should be recognised.

No problem with them BTW they did a grand job for my mums cataracts and my B-I-L drives for them. 

It does indeed make sense.

Not just the service on the day though, the booking/admin seems better.

Deal directly with them when booking, less fucking about, and quickly through to a person.

I was given a telephone appointment with neurology dept after my last seizure in August. I'm still waiting for them to ring!

Not that it matters any more as I've got the subsequent face to face one through now.

[RoadRunnerFan]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It does indeed make sense.

Not just the service on the day though, the booking/admin seems better.

Deal directly with them when booking, less fucking about, and quickly through to a person.

I was given a telephone appointment with neurology dept after my last seizure in August. I'm still waiting for them to ring!

Not that it matters any more as I've got the subsequent face to face one through now.

Glad you're getting sorted mate. 

But it will be a cold day in hell when the private sector has any kind of appetite to deliver complex services like neurology at nhs tariff prices. 

The simple stuff they can deliver the level of service you describe above and still have plenty left over for profit. 

[Cheese]

28 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Privatisation is when the service is sold outright to a private company

So if it's sold in small increments, then it's not "privatisation"? Give over.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

10 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Glad you're getting sorted mate. 

But it will be a cold day in hell when the private sector has any kind of appetite to deliver complex services like neurology at nhs tariff prices. 

The simple stuff they can deliver the level of service you describe above and still have plenty left over for profit. 

No doubt.

My issue isn't with the treatment side of things (although I can give a number of examples where it could have been a bit better), but with the burdensome administration, clunky systems, and undue spending in non-patient areas.

Streeting is right- it needs an overhaul. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

So if it's sold in small increments, then it's not "privatisation"? Give over.

It hasn't been sold in any increments.

It is simply utilising private suppliers in addition to its own staff in areas where there may be backlogs, or in areas of specialism.

This is perfectly rational, and is the same as local government using contractors in addition to its own staff where a sudden increase in work occurs, or the occasional requirement for a specialism.

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It hasn't been sold in any increments.

It is simply utilising private suppliers in addition to its own staff in areas where there may be backlogs, or in areas of specialism.

This is perfectly rational, and is the same as local government using contractors in addition to its own staff where a sudden increase in work occurs, or the occasional requirement for a specialism.

[DirtySanchez]

11 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It hasn't been sold in any increments.

It is simply utilising private suppliers in addition to its own staff in areas where there may be backlogs, or in areas of specialism.

This is perfectly rational, and is the same as local government using contractors in addition to its own staff where a sudden increase in work occurs, or the occasional requirement for a specialism.

Aye 

That's exactly what I do for work 

I'd never describe local government as privatised, especially as I work alongside people who are employed by them and make up the majority 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

15 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So if it's sold in small increments, then it's not "privatisation"? Give over.

Nothing has been sold

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Nothing has been sold

Fuck me. It's working then.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

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