Politics

[athywhite1958]

20 hours ago, tkonion said:

 I remember him being at Dewhursts, wouldn't have remembered which branch mind.    I remember meeting you on the Munich trip as well mate, how's things? 

OK mate, still in Athy, rarely watch the whites now, gone back to my roots at Colls

[bwfcfan5]

If rumours are true - May is (in effect) about to take no deal off the table by offering MPs a vote on no deal/extend should her deal be rejected on 12th March. We know there is a huge majority to prevent no deal. So if these rumours are true - today will rule out no deal. 

[bwfcfan5]

Rumours confirmed - May has accepted the Yvette Cooper amendment and made it government policy. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

If rumours are true - May is (in effect) about to take no deal off the table by offering MPs a vote on no deal/extend should her deal be rejected on 12th March. We know there is a huge majority to prevent no deal. So if these rumours are true - today will rule out no deal. 

It isn’t, of course, about no deal, it is about stopping Brexit, of course.

[bwfcfan5]

2 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

It isn’t, of course, about no deal, it is about stopping Brexit, of course.

I think this makes her deal far more likely. ERG either back it or know Brexit will be delayed. 

Up to them now. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I think this makes her deal far more likely. ERG either back it or know Brexit will be delayed. 

Up to them now. 

I think so

if they have the numbers, which is tighter than before?

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I think this makes her deal far more likely. ERG either back it or know Brexit will be delayed. 

Up to them now. 

Can’t see ERG backing it. 

[MalcolmW]

The Peterborough MP has just been released from prison - maybe her vote will be decisive.

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Can’t see ERG backing it. 

If they don't they are delaying Brexit. Its now a clear choice. No deal is off the table now - we already know this. 

[Cheese]

35 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

No deal is off the table now 

Nonsense.

[bwfcfan5]

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Nonsense.

Ok - its off the table for March 29th.

 

 

[MalcolmW]

If May's deal is voted down, Cooper's ploy is voted down and the extension is voted down then we leave on 29th March with no deal.

Also an extension has to be agreed by all members. How much do you suppose it will take for Cyprus or Malta to take umbrage? (or even Spain).

[Salford Trotter]

8 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

If May's deal is voted down, Cooper's ploy is voted down and the extension is voted down then we leave on 29th March with no deal.

Also an extension has to be agreed by all members. How much do you suppose it will take for Cyprus or Malta to take umbrage? (or even Spain).

In reality they wouldn't veto it

[MalcolmW]

9 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

In reality they wouldn't veto it

How much do you think Russia would pay in order to seriously crash the EU and UK? Asking for a friend.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The Labour Party manifesto said they would respect the referendum.

That they now won’t is no surprise to me, Labour is a busted flush and the Tory party look like they’re going to go the same way. 

Their manifesto means fuck all. I find it amazing that folk still think they have a shred of credibility.

They're not in power, so it matters not one jot that what their chats with the EU were, unless they were somehow allied to the government's position.

The current incumbents haven't done down that route, and too close a union would never get through anyhow. 

Starmer prattling on like the government has to shift it's position or they will change policy. 

TM may well have gone about this arse about face, and not to everybody's liking, but bloody hell, I'm beginning to see why she didn't involve them from the off. Perhaps they wanted synagogues removing from the UK before they could support any deal...

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Their manifesto means fuck all. I find it amazing that folk still think they have a shred of credibility.

They're not in power, so it matters not one jot that what their chats with the EU were, unless they were somehow allied to the government's position.

The current incumbents haven't done down that route, and too close a union would never get through anyhow. 

Starmer prattling on like the government has to shift it's position or they will change policy. 

TM may well have gone about this arse about face, and not to everybody's liking, but bloody hell, I'm beginning to see why she didn't involve them from the off. Perhaps they wanted synagogues removing from the UK before they could support any deal...

Starmer is one of the few grown ups on either front bench. And worth a million May's and if he wasn't shackled to Corbyn's nonsense would absolutely have destroyed the PM's position continually. 

May has been an outright failure and a total disgrace providing no answers to questions and repeatedly spouting the same robotic nonsense. Then at the last minute performing u-turn after u-turn. She said over 100 times in public and in parliament - as recently as last week - that we'd leave on the 29th March regardless. Today she announces a vote will take place to extend Article 50 beyond that date if her deal and no deal are defeated. We know no deal will be - so in essence she knows she's reduced this to her deal or extend. She's a complete liar who has failed every single person in this country regardless of their vote. Corbyn is exactly the same. Between them they've let a nation down. There can be no debate on this - both are absolutely beyond any redemption. 

 

 

[Salford Trotter]

30 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

How much do you think Russia would pay in order to seriously crash the EU and UK? Asking for a friend.

Not enough

[MalcolmW]

1 minute ago, Salford Trotter said:

Not enough

Even with a little help from Blumarble?

[Salford Trotter]

1 minute ago, MalcolmW said:

Even with a little help from Blumarble?

Or Anne Kenderson perhaps? 

[MickyD]

25 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Their manifesto means fuck all. I find it amazing that folk still think they have a shred of credibility.

 

It sticks in the throat a bit that they think so little of their manifesto that a little tweak here and there means nothing yet only a week ago the break-away Labour MPs were told to resign as they'd been elected on the back of Labours manifesto. 

[bwfcfan5]

Quote

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations. We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain. We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single 0arket and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first. A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries. EU nationals do not just contribute to our society: they are part of our society. And they should not be used as bargaining chips. It is shameful that the Prime Minister rejected repeated attempts by Labour to resolve this issue before Article 50 was triggered. As a result three million EU nationals have suffered unnecessary uncertainty, as have the 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU. A Conservative Brexit will weaken workers’ rights, deregulate the economy, slash corporate taxes, sideline Parliament and democratic accountability, and cut Britain off from our closest allies and most important trading partners. Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a Ȇcliff-edge’ for the 8. economy. The issues that affect our continent now will continue to do so in the future – and Labour will continue to work constructively with the EU and other European nations on issues such as climate change, refugee crises and counter-terrorism. :e will build a close co-operative future relationship with the EU, not as members but as partners.

 

That is the Labour 2017 manifesto on their approach to negotiating Brexit. How is what they are doing incompatible with that? They have offered up their alternative deal. If they can't get that through then as per their manifesto pledge they will do what they can to prevent no-deal. Their actions are, entirely consistent with their manifesto pledge - except that their manifesto was of course written assuming they were in government. As the opposition they are complying still with what they promised - try to offer an alternative deal preserving the benefits of the SM and CU - if that fails - do what they can to prevent the Tory Brexit and no-deal....

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

 

That is the Labour 2017 manifesto on their approach to negotiating Brexit. How is what they are doing incompatible with that? They have offered up their alternative deal. If they can't get that through then as per their manifesto pledge they will do what they can to prevent no-deal. Their actions are, entirely consistent with their manifesto pledge - except that their manifesto was of course written assuming they were in government. As the opposition they are complying still with what they promised - try to offer an alternative deal preserving the benefits of the SM and CU - if that fails - do what they can to prevent the Tory Brexit and no-deal....

Perhaps the bit about respecting the referendum result which having a second vote with a remain option isn't doing? Or am I being thick?

[bwfcfan5]

3 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Perhaps the bit about respecting the referendum result which having a second vote with a remain option isn't doing? Or am I being thick?

They said the respected the referendum result - which they are doing by offering an alternative Brexit deal (one the EU has said they would be prepared to negotiate on). They also said in their manifesto that they'd stop no-deal and May's "reckless deal". A second vote that offers May's deal vs Remain - could be seen to be not respecting the result I agree. However, in order to be compatible with the whole of their pledge I'd argue that given they've tried removing the government, offering an alternative deal and supporting amendments to stop no-deal that at this stage a 2nd vote to either ratify May's deal or remain is their only option left. And they've left it till last.

I think Corbyn is a disgrace on his Brexit stance - but I'm merely pointing out that what they're doing does have logic from their manifesto.

 

[Salford Trotter]

3 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Perhaps the bit about respecting the referendum result which having a second vote with a remain option isn't doing? Or am I being thick?

This a genuine question, if there was a 2nd referendum and the result was say 52:48 in favour of remain but the turnout was much higher would that suggest that voters have been more informed second time around? Remember 13m voters failed to vote last time round maybe, just maybe, that they felt the result was never in question either way

[Escobarp]

I agree Pete that there is every chance the result would be different. But does that make it right to have a second referendum?

if people weren’t bothered in the first instance it’s tough shit really. I also thought the result was a given but I still got off my large backside and voted to leave. Was I shocked? Yep. But if it had been remain I would have accepted the decision. 

Therefore in response to your question I agree it could change but strongly disagree that there should be a second referendum with a remain option. 

I think we should have a second vote however but it should be three options of leave with PM’s deal, no deal or extend but with a defined backstop on the extension at which point we leave or this will never end.