Manager

[Piemon]

You lose all credibility banging on about Coyle for me.

 

On topic. It’s an odd one for me. I like him personally and am happy he can go out with his head held high.

 

He has to go though as we got lucky. That won’t happen again.

 

Dreadful start and finish to the season. We need someone to kick on. Some dreadful performances especially away.

 

I’m looking at a pochettino replacing Adkins scenario. We can kick on in this league without spending money. Good luck Phil but we need someone else

 

Spot on Tom 

[Guest]

absolutely.

 

However, considering the hard fist PP and the team based on his instructions made of staying up and factoring in the common consensus that the league will be tougher next year, IF no investment comes its only natural people will be concerned that he wont be able to perform another miracle and are looking at people who potentially could..

 

but like you say, investment may change that and may take that opportunity out of PP's hands 

 

I'm not sure on the logic here. If PP has proven an ability to keep us up against the odds, why would you change and get someone in as a risk? 

 

With money and new owners or investors I do agree you're in a different ballpark then....

[barrycowdrill]

I'm not sure on the logic here. If PP has proven an ability to keep us up against the odds, why would you change and get someone in as a risk? 

 

With money and new owners or investors I do agree you're in a different ballpark then....

 

the logic is, yes he kept us up. by the skin of our teeth, competing against teams who were no great shakes themselves, where we had ample opportunity to nail it earlier. But, yes we survived.

 

the league will be tougher next season. no doubt. So, if investment doesn't come and we are scraping around for similar players we had this season is PP the man to give us the best chance in the tougher league taking in to consideration the above?

[Guest]

the logic is, yes he kept us up. by the skin of our teeth, competing against teams who were no great shakes themselves, where we had ample opportunity to nail it earlier. But, yes we survived.

 

the league will be tougher next season. no doubt. So, if investment doesn't come and we are scraping around for similar players we had this season is PP the man to give us the best chance in the tougher league taking in to consideration the above?

 

It depends if you think PP is a plus point to us. I think we survived because he kept the team going. I don't think changing him for someone else would make us any better as it stands. The evidence I'd put forward is PP with a much smaller budget than Lennon achieved a far better result. 

 

It's like at Burnley when Dyche goes, I suspect they won't do nearly as well. He's their major asset. PP not on the same level at all, but he's probably the main advantage we've had over the bottom 3, in my view. 

[barrycowdrill]

It depends if you think PP is a plus point to us. I think we survived because he kept the team going. I don't think changing him for someone else would make us any better as it stands. The evidence I'd put forward is PP with a much smaller budget than Lennon achieved a far better result. 

 

It's like at Burnley when Dyche goes, I suspect they won't do nearly as well. He's their major asset. PP not on the same level at all, but he's probably the main advantage we've had over the bottom 3, in my view. 

 

comparing Lennon & PP is chalk and cheese. 

 

The environment was different, the financial problems were there but a much greater concern in Lennons time, the whole place was toxic. Lennon after Mjalby's departure lost the players .Irrelevant of budget

 

To PP's huge credit, from the minute he walked through the door he had the players on side. and barring one or two whispers at the end of this season has kept them with him

 

i do think he deserves another crack for what he has done, do i personally want to see more of what he has given us football wise? no. But i am willing him to succeed. However its a very fine line if he is given next season. If we start the way we did last year he wont make October

Edited May 11, 2018 by barrycowdrill

[Sluffy]

Can't believe the number of fans that can't see the bigger picture.

 

Rightly or wrongly the squad was clearly incomplete when the season started - that wasn't Parkinson's fault.  It led to just 2 points after 11 games (that's nearly a quarter of the season gone!) until the new, stricter embargo was lifted and we could bring in a defensive midfielder (after game 9) and give him just two games to get up to speed.

 

During that time in become abundantly clear that our central defenders were not up to the job and required two midfield defenders to shield them until the end of the season.  The consequence of that was there weren't any place for any midfield creative players we may have had to provide the killer through ball to open up defences on the ground, nor an escape ball for the defenders and that's why they've had not much option other than to hoof it up field, and why the team is so reliant to attacking from the wings.  It followed then that a big target man was so crucial for the team - how else could we play when seven of our players (two defensive midfielders, four (or even five) at the back and the keeper) were committed to shore up the defence the best they could - leaving just four players left to create things from midfield and to provide attacking options - again realistically that meant a couple of wide men and an attacking midfielder supplying the ball to a target man and supporting him by running from midfield the best they can.

 

Anyway it worked, and to be fair it worked very well indeed.  

 

Before we get to that though lets have a look at the last eight or so games of the season.  The greatest characteristic of these games seemed to be the seemingly random and numerous team changes - almost as though some of the players became unavailable for selection.  Well we know Wheater had a clause in his contract giving him a bonus after a set number of appearances, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume others had similar clauses too?  Also we do know that some/many loan deals come with clauses, which can include a certain amount of first appearances.  Is it unreasonable to think Flanagan may have had one with Little suddenly disappearing following the QPR match and only reappearing at the end of the season?

 

Maybe I'm talking out my arse but it does seem to me things behind the scenes were happening over the last 8 games or so that Parkinson had no control over.

 

The last 8 games yielded just 4 points and add them to the first 11 games gives you 19 games, which Parkinson through no fault of his own had either a half completed team and/or players made unavailable to him due to contract clauses and Mr Anderson's decisions on these - that yielded just SIX points.

 

Given however a properly balanced squad with the addition of a defensive midfield player to it, and having no constraints over the players he could pick Parkinson delivered 27 games and 37 points - which equates to being 12th in the league over that period - and on a par with Sheffield United (2 points more than us in 11th place) and within just 8 points of Millwall, with whom we came up with.

 

Don't forget over this period Parkinson had his teams key player and top scorer sold and not replaced!

 

- see link for further details -

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB2?saison_id=2017&min=12&max=38

 

 

So is Parkinson the manager with 6 points from 19 games or the one with 37 points from just 27 games.

 

Well of course he's the same man but one who had to work under constraints off the field effecting who he could play and how and one who could show what he is capable of with a free hand and with a side built with frees and loans.

 

There's no doubts at all to my mind that Parkinson is an exceptional manager who has done wonders with the players he's been given - I doubt greatly that he has a great say on transfers in or out and that is job is really to get the best out of what he is given.

 

If Anderson greatly improves the quality of our centre backs this summer, then there would be less need to have to play protect them with defensive midfielders and a greater chance to build a more attacking team with more passing and movement from midfield and a lot less hoofs up field from the defenders.

 

That's the picture I see of the manager, team and off field circumstances that have directly effected what as gone on the pitch the season just gone.

 

After saying all that if new ownership came in over summer they would probably want to bring in their own man.

 

I do feel though that Parkinson has been greatly underrated by many of the clubs fans for what he's done and the constraints he's had to work to off the field this season.  

 

 

[Ani]

I see your points but I think where we differ is I fail to see the massive overachievement more that he did what was expected.

Objective was to stay up. Achieved.

 

Making 6-8million profit on sales is massive.

[Ani]

people seem happy to say we had a good enough squad to stay up but not happy when you say PP achieved what he should have achieved.

 

We were 4 points from safety with 8 games to go. it should have been done and dusted well before 87 minutes on Sunday.

Who got us to 4 points from safety with 8 games to go ?

 

God knows what went on in those weeks after Villa but you have to bases assesment on season as a whole not just the segments you pick and choose.

[Ani]

Burton Albion away

 

Case closed your honour

Everyone seems to want to point out mistakes made along the way. Of course he made some sure he would agree on that.

 

Last season first team ever promoted under an embargo. Moved into a league which is miles better still in embargo and survived. We have not been exceptionally lucky.

 

I would have sacked him after Burton but that is fans emotional gut reaction based on his record in last 2 years he deserves a fucking medal not sacking and slagging.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Once Cardiff have their shit start to next season Colin wanker will be potted; assuming pp stays should blwe start badly would you have the twat here?

[Duck Egg]

Objective was to stay up. Achieved.

 

Making 6-8million profit on sales is massive.

Exactly. I can't believe we're even having this debate!

[Big E]

It depends if you think PP is a plus point to us. I think we survived because he kept the team going. I don't think changing him for someone else would make us any better as it stands. The evidence I'd put forward is PP with a much smaller budget than Lennon achieved a far better result. 

 

It's like at Burnley when Dyche goes, I suspect they won't do nearly as well. He's their major asset. PP not on the same level at all, but he's probably the main advantage we've had over the bottom 3, in my view. 

 

i just can't agree with this point. in the last match yes. but the weeks leading up to it we played like he lost the dressing room 

[Guest]

i just can't agree with this point. in the last match yes. but the weeks leading up to it we played like he lost the dressing room 

The players have put it down to "feeling the pressure of the situation". Perhaps it was. It isn't exactly unknown in football for teams to choke. 

 

Doubt he lost the dressing room for those 7 games then re-found it. That simply doesn't make sense. 

[Casino]

he didnt lose em second half at barnsley either

[barrycowdrill]

dont think he lost them as a whole, obviously one or two not satisfied with game time which you would expect especially with the selection bingo that seemed to be occurring

 

we were left in the precarious position on Sunday due to the fact the previous 6 or 7 games yielded  1 point. We were set up to not lose games rather than win them in my opinion.

 

went at Villa, won

went at Barnsley (2nd half) shouldve won, got a point

went at Forest, won

the rest, played conservatively and got fuck all!

 

amazing how that works out eh? and people can dress it up as players choking, pressure, blah blah. fact of the matter is each team goes out with a game plan set by the gaffer.

 

If he is here next season then i hope the penny drops 

[Guest]

dont think he lost them as a whole, obviously one or two not satisfied with game time which you would expect especially with the selection bingo that seemed to be occurring

 

we were left in the precarious position on Sunday due to the fact the previous 6 or 7 games yielded  1 point. We were set up to not lose games rather than win them in my opinion.

 

went at Villa, won

went at Barnsley (2nd half) shouldve won, got a point

went at Forest, won

the rest, played conservatively and got fuck all!

 

amazing how that works out eh? and people can dress it up as players choking, pressure, blah blah. fact of the matter is each team goes out with a game plan set by the gaffer.

 

If he is here next season then i hope the penny drops 

 

Villa team was 3 defensive midfield players and Flanagan and Taylor at full back. The same team he tried for the remaining 7 games. I think trying to argue we "went at them" is losing credibility from your argument. He clearly saw the Villa performance as something to repeat in the final 7 games, we just didn't manage to come close to the same levels. 

[Big E]

Villa team was 3 defensive midfield players and Flanagan and Taylor at full back. The same team he tried for the remaining 7 games. I think trying to argue we "went at them" is losing credibility from your argument. He clearly saw the Villa performance as something to repeat in the final 7 games, we just didn't manage to come close to the same levels. 

 

But thats a daft thing to do when the villa win was down to snow.......

[barrycowdrill]

Villa team was 3 defensive midfield players and Flanagan and Taylor at full back. The same team he tried for the remaining 7 games. I think trying to argue we "went at them" is losing credibility from your argument. He clearly saw the Villa performance as something to repeat in the final 7 games, we just didn't manage to come close to the same levels. 

 

We were far more offensive versus villa, Barnsley and Forest hence the positive results.

 

sick of hearing all of these reasons, contributing factors, permutations. " there was snow", "the ball was yellow instead of white", "the wind was blowing north easterly", "We had 2 defensive midfielders against their snow allergic wingers"

 

isn't rocket science this game. it really isnt. Yet people try and portray it as some unfathomable algorithm 

 

absolutely no one can deny the positive results we gained were because we were more on the front foot. its simple 

Edited May 11, 2018 by barrycowdrill

[Guest]

We were far more offensive versus villa, Barnsley and Forest hence the positive results.

 

sick of hearing all of these reasons, contributing factors, permutations. " there was snow", "the ball was yellow instead of white", "the wind was blowing north easterly", "We had 2 defensive midfielders against their snow allergic wingers"

 

isn't rocket science this game. it really isnt. Yet people try and portray it as some unfathomable algorithm 

 

absolutely no one can deny the positive results we gained were because we were more on the front foot. its simple 

 

But the point is if he was responsible for picking the wrong team, then you can't include Villa in your argument. The Villa display was clearly what he was aiming for but the players never managed to repeat it. 

 

Perhaps they were nervous or lost energy or whatever. What I'm saying is that you blame him for picking the wrong team, but cite the Villa game as one to copy, which is what he was clearly trying to do....

[Zico]

 

absolutely no one can deny the positive results we gained were because we were more on the front foot. its simple 

 

aye, and you can use that statement to either defend or criticize PP

 

 with the season we've had, one way or another, sack him or keep him,, you can take what has gone on to make your argument fit

 

he gets up to 10 games for me next season

 

if we see the insipid shite that was on display for the start and end of the season, he goes

 

if we see something more like Oct-Mar, he stays

[barrycowdrill]

But the point is if he was responsible for picking the wrong team, then you can't include Villa in your argument. The Villa display was clearly what he was aiming for but the players never managed to repeat it. 

 

Perhaps they were nervous or lost energy or whatever. What I'm saying is that you blame him for picking the wrong team, but cite the Villa game as one to copy, which is what he was clearly trying to do....

 

ive not blamed him anywhere for picking the wrong team?

 

what i have blamed him for is how we approached each game, ie, the type of football! As ive said before Villa and Barnsley (2nd half) are the games where we played our best football in that last 7/8 games, not launching it over everyones heads for 90 minutes. and guess what?? we got results.

 

the other games we reverted to launching the ball and what did we get? nothing!

 

PP was trying to find a formula that worked in the last few games, players came in and players went out, thats fine i buy that but what you have to acknowledge is in spite of all of those changes, the type of football we played except the 2 examples above got us nothing!

 

and THAT is what he has to take the blame for 

[Whites man]

So if he accepts blame for that can he take credit for meeting the season's overall target of staying up?

[Big E]

Who got us to 4 points from safety with 8 games to go ?

 

God knows what went on in those weeks after Villa but you have to bases assesment on season as a whole not just the segments you pick and choose.

 

So we basically have a shit sandwich. shit at the start, ok in the middle, pretty shit at the end. 

 

On the basis of the season and my belief the squad was good enough to survive for me he has a lot of questions to answer. expalin the freezing out and i may change my opinion (not that he has to answer to me this is just my opinion). At the end of the season we were very lucky and we may not be as fortunate next time. 

 

lets not mistake the credit he is rightly getting for keeping us up. 

 

i don't know anyone who saw the strikeforce pre kick off sunday who didn't think ALF should be playing. Yes wilbraham scored in the end up but he missed many and i don't believe this would have been the case with ALF. 

 

although as the guy who sits near me text his mate "Tell that fat bastard how good is wilbraham now" which shows how daft it is. the lad still shouldnt be leading our line but now hes a world beater. 

[barrycowdrill]

So if he accepts blame for that can he take credit for meeting the season's overall target of staying up?

 

ive given him credit, as has the vast majority on here?

 

this thread is on about whether he should be manager of the club moving forward. in terms of what he has achieved? Yes in my opinion he should. but, do i want to watch any more of the football we played for around 40 games of the season and got us very little? No i dont

[Zico]

Rightly or wrongly the squad was clearly incomplete when the season started - that wasn't Parkinson's fault.  It led to just 2 points after 11 games (that's nearly a quarter of the season gone!) until the new, stricter embargo was lifted and we could bring in a defensive midfielder (after game 9) and give him just two games to get up to speed.

 

out of interest, what were the restrictions that meant we could sign Buckley, Taylor, Ameobi, Little, Darby, Le Fondre, Noone & Wilbraham on frees, + 5 players on loan, but meant we couldn't sign Henry till September?

 

for me it was quite the oversight to let Spearing go and sign 5 forwards, but no defensive midfielder

 

though I'd also say that the return from injury for Vela and Ameobi at the same time as Henry's arrival transformed the first team and approach massively