Is it kicking off big time or is this just everyday stuff they deal with or a bit of both?

 

36 minutes ago, royal white said:

Sick of people saying the west need to intervene. We’ve been here before. We help out then a few months down the line we are the bad guys. Leave them to it. 

I said this ages back on this thread - we can't do right for doing wrong. Nothing will change, they'll still be firing at each other another 100 years from now, no matter what we try to do. Don't report on it, don't acknowledge it, just leave them to it.

 

Blimey - someone from the west says the west should leave the middle east to it.

Maybe this should have suggested this to UK slightly earlier. Like around 1917.

23 minutes ago, Casino said:

leaving them to it...

 

does that include not providing weapons and watching iran blast fuck out of israel?

or do we then get involved?

For me, Iran entering, becomes a third party entrance, and that makes it a bit different, although I suspect the US hanging around will prevent that anyway

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I said this ages back on this thread - we can't do right for doing wrong. Nothing will change, they'll still be firing at each other another 100 years from now, no matter what we try to do. Don't report on it, don't acknowledge it, just leave them to it.

 

I believe this is called the luxury of distance - both time and geography. 

If you acknowledge the wests (and specifically the UKs) part in the formation of the Palestine Mandate, and the issues that have arisen from this then it feels slightly problematic to withdraw from this situation on a interantional dimplomatic level.

Edited November 1, 20232 yr by Not in Crawley

2 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I said this ages back on this thread - we can't do right for doing wrong. Nothing will change, they'll still be firing at each other another 100 years from now, no matter what we try to do. Don't report on it, don't acknowledge it, just leave them to it.

 

Exactly, Like then numerous other conflicts going on right now around the world. 

There is a distinct lack of acknowledgement or knowledge about our role in this conflict. We are not passive observers.

5 minutes ago, Sweep said:

For me, Iran entering, becomes a third party entrance, and that makes it a bit different, although I suspect the US hanging around will prevent that anyway

I realise you mean boots on the ground, but the reality is Iran are already heavily involved

2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

There is a distinct lack of acknowledgement or knowledge about our role in this conflict. We are not passive observers.

In reality, we are now though

The UK has no longer has any meaningful influence in the conflict 

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I realise you mean boots on the ground, but the reality is Iran are already heavily involved

Indeed, they're apparently supplying the majority of missles to Hamas aren't they?  -  the fact that so very many of them seem to be easily smuggled into Gaza is pretty shocking. Surely the CIA as advanced as it is, must be spotting when thousands of missiles are being shipped out of Iran (and they will surely know how many and when, as they'll  have spy drones and satellites permanently hovering over the state)

I also heard on the radio the other day, and of course it might be bollocks, but they intimated that the top brass of Hamas all live a life of protected luxury in Qatar  -  if that is true, then it really is shocking.

I honestly think if the conflict can not be sorted with a 102 page thread on here I think we should just agree it is a bit of a mess and move on. 

6 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

In reality, we are now though

The UK has no longer has any meaningful influence in the conflict 

That depends on how you view world dipolomancy. We still have a role, not as significant, but certainly to just do nothing would be a denigration of our past - and perhaps more importantly our standing in the future.

Isolationism is the path to irrelevence and a of still powerful western nation I believe it is a duty in recognition of the part we've played and also a responsibility to secure a future for those in the area, as it always has been.

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

I honestly think if the conflict can not be sorted with a 102 page thread on here I think we should just agree it is a bit of a mess and move on. 

Aye - there's been some searing insights on here that should be sent direct to the UN. Be sorted in no time.

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

Exactly, Like then numerous other conflicts going on right now around the world. 

I've just had a look, there's a few of them

Most are darkies v darkies and there's no oil or decent minerals involved though, so I[m not sure we're overly arsed about them. Sadly though, and I know it won't be popular....but there does seem to be a fairly common "religious" thread to the majority of them

 

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

I honestly think if the conflict can not be sorted with a 102 page thread on here I think we should just agree it is a bit of a mess and move on. 

Don't give up that easy - we've not got as far as suggesting that Mossad and Hamas have a straightener outside the club shop yet. Once that's been dismissed, then we do need to move on

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Aye - there's been some searing insights on here that should be sent direct to the UN. Be sorted in no time.

see my post above 

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

see my post above 

Yes, quite...😉

2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That depends on how you view world dipolomancy. We still have a role, not as significant, but certainly to just do nothing would be a denigration of our past - and perhaps more importantly our standing in the future.

Isolationism is the path to irrelevence and a of still powerful western nation I believe it is a duty in recognition of the part we've played and also a responsibility to secure a future for those in the area, as it always has been.

Yes to all of that, but to the extent the UK has any role to play, it's on the periphary as an ally of the US

9 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Don't give up that easy - we've not got as far as suggesting that Mossad and Hamas have a straightener outside the club shop yet. Once that's been dismissed, then we do need to move on

Could we just have stumbled upon the solution here?

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Yes to all of that, but to the extent the UK has any role to play, it's on the periphary as an ally of the US

Yes, of course, my point was we shouldn't be just ignoring the siutation and leaving the region to it.

11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yes, of course, my point was we shouldn't be just ignoring the siutation and leaving the region to it.

It what way should we involve ourselves?

I still hope for peace on day with regards to the West Bank if Israel and the PA get round the table with several neighbouring countries helping with arbitration.

With Gaza I am not remotely hopeful. Hamas is acting as an Iranian proxy, and act in a similar way to stay in power.

56 minutes ago, Ani said:

I honestly think if the conflict can not be sorted with a 102 page thread on here I think we should just agree it is a bit of a mess and move on. 

😁😁😁😁

Must admit, I missed this

https://www.qmsu.org/iam/#:~:text=November is Islamophobia Awareness Month,celebrating their culture and religion.

1 hour ago, royal white said:

It what way should we involve ourselves?

Through the usual dimplomatic channels - we still have weight to bear. Also, we can look at the on-going arms deals we do with Israel as a means of leverage so discussions around the conflict.

Whilst the US give nearly 3 billion in support (mainly in military aid) approved export licences for arms sales from the UK to Israel cover components for small arms, ammunition and intelligence.

The UK also imports Israeli-made weapons with Elbit Systems and Thales - in deals worth up to £800 million. In this simple way you can see how international trade with the West is important and is, and will be, utilised in discussions about the conflict - and why there is no leap to call for a ceasefire as well.

Its also one of the many reasons we are inextricably linked into this conflict and can't, nor shouldn't, step away.

 

It is times like these that 'soft power' come into play, diplomatic channels working overtime.