Is it kicking off big time or is this just everyday stuff they deal with or a bit of both?

 

Hamas...

 

Rinus Israel....

Ron Chopper Harris

2 hours ago, DazBob said:

I can only assume I've missed something?  Because if I've not it seems you are not going to pass comment on soldiers beheading babies because you want to know what the other side have done?

Soldiers didn’t behead babies… hamas terrorist did, yep think you missed something. 

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Soldiers didn’t behead babies… hamas terrorist did, yep think you missed something. 

They didn't and both the Americans and Israelis have pulled back in that claim, however the Israelis have just released images of a couple of burnt babies.

2 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

They didn't and both the Americans and Israelis have pulled back in that claim, however the Israelis have just released images of a couple of burnt babies.

You're sounding apologetic.

 

 

Religion of peace.

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Religion of peace.

I'm in shock, wish I hadn't looked in a way, but I was finding it remarkable that folk are arguing over the method of murder if human beings.

Well there it is.

We need to think that one blow of a machete type weapon would easily cleave a tiny baby. Whether that is specifically aimed at detaching a head or elsewhere is immaterial.

Find those responsible and remove them.

7 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Find those responsible and remove them.

i think you'll struggle to find anybody on here that has an issue with that

 

there'll be plenty fried palestinians at the hands of israel too, fwiw, but hacking folk to bits is disgusting, obviously

still doesnt give em carte blanche to flatten palestine

 

53 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Gaza

 

4 minutes ago, Casino said:

i think you'll struggle to find anybody on here that has an issue with that

 

there'll be plenty fried palestinians at the hands of israel too, fwiw, but hacking folk to bits is disgusting, obviously

still doesnt give em carte blanche to flatten palestine

 

Which hasn't happened. Talk about over egging the cake.

As I've said multiple times; why do Hamas hide their weaponry in places surrounded by homes?

What other option is open to Israel in dealing with these weapons systems?

Just imagine some 10,000 rockets or so fired towards towns around here. One might just be heading towards your house.

Now suppose our military tell you they won't take our those rocket launchers because those firing them have deliberately positioned them next to houses.

They're in between a rock and a hard place, and until we're on the receiving end, we don't know how we'd react.

4 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 I’ll await independent verification on Jewish atrocities before I pass comment. 

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/statement23-10-11/?sourceid=1001761&emci=54296a71-7068-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&emdi=1e2bdd0b-8c68-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&ceid=213203

A Jewish Human Rights organisation condemning the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response that has "killed over a 1000 Palestinians, targeted hospitals and apartment buildings"

56 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

They're in between a rock and a hard place, and until we're on the receiving end, we don't know how we'd react.

They definitely are.  We, the UK, have been on the receiving end of a terrorism campaign and a guerilla war where the combatants are hidden among the general populous. We're still beating ourselves up as a nation for bloody Sunday.  Perhaps we should have levelled Londonderry or carpet bombed Armagh.  I don't recall the Americans standing side by side with us in those dark days. 

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

They didn't and both the Americans and Israelis have pulled back in that claim, however the Israelis have just released images of a couple of burnt babies.

Blinken was just asked the question whether he had seen the pics 

His answer could only be described as fudged 

2 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/statement23-10-11/?sourceid=1001761&emci=54296a71-7068-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&emdi=1e2bdd0b-8c68-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&ceid=213203

A Jewish Human Rights organisation condemning the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response that has "killed over a 1000 Palestinians, targeted hospitals and apartment buildings"

Does it really address the question of why such buildings were targeted?

Here's the thing, if they wanted to be indiscriminate then they wouldn't be using precision weapons. It's cheaper and more effective to use much larger (more powerful) missiles/rockets with less of a targeting system or heavy bombers with huge payloads laying waste to whole areas.

Yes, we'd all like to see the evidence they have with regards to what each target may represent, but unfortunately that's not going to happen for operational reasons.

4 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

They definitely are.  We, the UK, have been on the receiving end of a terrorism campaign and a guerilla war where the combatants are hidden among the general populous. We're still beating ourselves up as a nation for bloody Sunday.  Perhaps we should have levelled Londonderry or carpet bombed Armagh.  I don't recall the Americans standing side by side with us in those dark days. 

Why would we do that, when much of the population in NI is pro-Britain?

The British mainland wasn't under attack from rockets neither, so your comparison in that regard is very weak.

Comparisons are valid around the fundamental causes, and when the Israeli troops go in on a ground offensive. 

Whilst rockets are still being launched however, then they're entitled to fire back, with far more accurate weapons.

2 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/statement23-10-11/?sourceid=1001761&emci=54296a71-7068-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&emdi=1e2bdd0b-8c68-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&ceid=213203

A Jewish Human Rights organisation condemning the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response that has "killed over a 1000 Palestinians, targeted hospitals and apartment buildings"

Jewish Voice for Peace, a specifically "anti-Zionist" organisation which released a statement on Saturday affirming that Israel and the US were the source "of all this violence" without making any reference to Hamas at all

It may or may not prove to be the case that the claim you posted above is true, but JVOP are in no sense reliable or without significant bias

 

14 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/statement23-10-11/?sourceid=1001761&emci=54296a71-7068-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&emdi=1e2bdd0b-8c68-ee11-9937-00224832eb73&ceid=213203

A Jewish Human Rights organisation condemning the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response that has "killed over a 1000 Palestinians, targeted hospitals and apartment buildings"

That’s more of an opinion rather than a verifiable witness account, however Israel has to stay on the right side of the Geneva convention, if they don’t then world and public opinion can quickly change, there is no excuse for the wilful killing of innocent civilian's. 

12 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

They definitely are.  We, the UK, have been on the receiving end of a terrorism campaign and a guerilla war where the combatants are hidden among the general populous. We're still beating ourselves up as a nation for bloody Sunday.  Perhaps we should have levelled Londonderry or carpet bombed Armagh.  I don't recall the Americans standing side by side with us in those dark days. 

The attitudes of Hamas and the IRA to their own citizens are/were quite different

3 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Jewish Voice for Peace, a specifically "anti-Zionist" organisation which released a statement on Saturday affirming that Israel and the US were the source "of all this violence" without making any reference to Hamas at all

It may or may not prove to be the case that the claim you posted above is true, but JVOP are in no sense reliable or without significant bias

 

Thing about this, is that such a view will be "tolerated" in Israel in a way that the reverse wouldn't be in some other nations around the area. A sign of the democracy that exists there.

It's far from a perfect place, but it nevertheless more reflects our society.

29 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why would we do that, when much of the population in NI is pro-Britain?

The British mainland wasn't under attack from rockets neither, so your comparison in that regard is very weak.

Comparisons are valid around the fundamental causes, and when the Israeli troops go in on a ground offensive. 

Whilst rockets are still being launched however, then they're entitled to fire back, with far more accurate weapons.

We could have targeted the wholly Catholic areas in the bogside with these precision weapons you speak of, but as a nation and respecter of human rights we wouldn't do that and also recognise that not all Catholics and all republicans agreed with the IRAs bombing campaigns.

I seem to recall rockets fired on Downing Street that had John Major diving under the table but agreed, not a strong comparison. 

34 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Jewish Voice for Peace, a specifically "anti-Zionist" organisation which released a statement on Saturday affirming that Israel and the US were the source "of all this violence" without making any reference to Hamas at all

It may or may not prove to be the case that the claim you posted above is true, but JVOP are in no sense reliable or without significant bias

 

Anti Zionist but not anti Israeli per se. A Jewish organisation that specifically condemned the Hamas attacks in the opening bit of that link, an attack that cost the lives of some of their own relatives.

There are other such organisations, B'tselem have done great work for years highlighting IDF atrocities. There's a group on Twitter, ex IDF soldiers still trying to come to terms with the abuse of Palestinians that they saw, and often took part in on a daily basis.

I mean, they could all be lying but they've no reason to. Unlike the Israeli govt who need to keep the US and others on side.

37 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Thing about this, is that such a view will be "tolerated" in Israel in a way that the reverse wouldn't be in some other nations around the area. A sign of the democracy that exists there.

It's far from a perfect place, but it nevertheless more reflects our society.

However, unlike our treatment of Catholics in Northern Ireland which was far from perfect, the "democratic" state of Israel corralled the Palestinians into a narrow strip of land, denied them access to the outside world, strangled their opportunities to trade and build their own wealth, kept them poor and in many cases hungry, governed them with an iron rod, demonised them publicly for 50 years and generally treated them like whipped animals.

And if you whip an animal enough it's going to bite back.

We are far from perfect and we had a lot to do with causing the problem in the first place, but we are not like Israel.

10 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

However, unlike our treatment of Catholics in Northern Ireland which was far from perfect, the "democratic" state of Israel corralled the Palestinians into a narrow strip of land, denied them access to the outside world, strangled their opportunities to trade and build their own wealth, kept them poor and in many cases hungry, governed them with an iron rod, demonised them publicly for 50 years and generally treated them like whipped animals.

And if you whip an animal enough it's going to bite back.

We are far from perfect and we had a lot to do with causing the problem in the first place, but we are not like Israel.

Are you anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, anti-Jew, or all?

Tore Andre PLO

Patrick Bergen