6 coppers to take him down or 1 member of the public with his bike? 
 

 

 

3 hours ago, Sweep said:

Good point 😃

I do think he's got his eyes on the prize though

Yeah - wouldnt be surprised if one of the safe NW seats is sort of 'passed over' to him.

8 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yeah - wouldnt be surprised if one of the safe NW seats is sort of 'passed over' to him.

I think they need to. Starmer is a decent man but has been pilloried unfairly imo by the right wing press (expected of course) but more so by the terminally thick who only know politics via social media.

It's like the global financial crash, then austerity, Brexit, covid, Ukraine never happened.

Both sides too, the left want to spend more that we don't have and the right less, fucking over those who have been fucked over for ever. Yet snake oil salesmen seem to win the poor man's vote again and again.

47 minutes ago, Sweep said:

There's the issue, for many of our ills. The fact everybody is allowed a vote, even fucking gormless mouth breathing no marks. A large portion of the electorate are thick as fuck, and have no idea what they're actually voting for. There really should be some sort of test. 

The problem is the lack of people voting. Turn out is very low, not helped by the real gawps who go down the incessantly stupid 'they're all the same line.'

Politics and legislation is complex and its hard but moreover a lot of it is really, really dull. It much easier to get people angry than focused on say the Immigration White Paper that was released in May of this year. Not everyone has to know how the system works but its when people use ignorance to further their own agendas that there is a real problem.

People dont have the patience anymore to read, or sit down and watch a balanced hour long news programme. Look at the viewing and listening numbers. The days political agenda isnt set by the Today programme anymore other than for a tiny minority. Wake up, pick up your phone and scroll through bite sized headlines without depth, nuance or even a reputable writer.

 

23 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I think they need to. Starmer is a decent man but has been pilloried unfairly imo by the right wing press (expected of course) but more so by the terminally thick who only know politics via social media.

It's like the global financial crash, then austerity, Brexit, covid, Ukraine never happened.

Both sides too, the left want to spend more that we don't have and the right less, fucking over those who have been fucked over for ever. Yet snake oil salesmen seem to win the poor man's vote again and again.

Burnham's a funny one. He has managed to unite those in the NW who haven't united under Labour and have turned to Reform or the Tories. Which is a huge strength. But this is also done from a position of being a free outsider. He can happily bash Westminster and tap into the ill feeling towards the MPs in London of whatever party. Could he do it nationally? Hes more on the left than Starmer which in some ways is good - you actually know what he stands for, but the home counties which are needed are a tricky needle, especially for someone coming down from the North on the back of a more openly socialist platform.

Anyway, we'll see. 

6 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

The problem is the lack of people voting. Turn out is very low, not helped by the real gawps who go down the incessantly stupid 'they're all the same line.'

Politics and legislation is complex and its hard but moreover a lot of it is really, really dull. It much easier to get people angry than focused on say the Immigration White Paper that was released in May of this year. Not everyone has to know how the system works but its when people use ignorance to further their own agendas that there is a real problem.

People dont have the patience anymore to read, or sit down and watch a balanced hour long news programme. Look at the viewing and listening numbers. The days political agenda isnt set by the Today programme anymore other than for a tiny minority. Wake up, pick up your phone and scroll through bite sized headlines without depth, nuance or even a reputable writer.

 

Just look at this very forum. We are all guilty of it at times though.

Been sent this by a mate, supposedly posted on social media by a Labour left wing MP:

 

Believe it or not, I had an old school friend on today’s marches in London. He sent me some photos from the crowd.

We went to middle school together and grew up on the same Eastern District council estate in Northampton.

I asked him why he was there. He gave me two answers:
 1. “The government doesn’t listen to us.”
 2. “I want to feel proud of my country again.”

He wore a Union Jack, not a St George’s Cross as he said that one had been hijacked by racists. 

He wasn’t there for Hopkins, Musk, or any of the professional grifters’ as he put it. He was there to feel part of something bigger, though he admitted there were a lot of, in his words, “assholes” there.

He’s an electrician. He’s smart. He’s not racist, but he’s not “PC” either. He’s not a fan of Keir Starmer but he also believes Farage would be a disaster. 

Oh yes, he’s  a bundle of contradictions! But aren’t we all? 

I don’t know what ‘box’ we put him  or the millions like him  in. And I think pretending they’re all racists or fascists would be a massive mistake.

Some were. But not all.

This is about something bigger than immigration slogans or GDP numbers. For decades we’ve hollowed out our national life, underfunding and undermining the very institutions that once brought us together.

Karl Polanyi, writing in The Great Transformation, argued that when markets are “disembodied” from society, when land, labour, and life itself are treated as commodities
 society pushes back. He called this the “double movement”: people seeking to protect themselves, to reclaim dignity and meaning when everything solid seems to melt into air.

That’s what I saw in my friend’s photos. Not just anger, but a demand for belonging.

We’ve replaced collective experience with atomisation. Without getting too nostalgic, programmes like the BBC’s Generation Game once pulled in millions every Saturday night, giving us something we could all talk about on Monday morning. Now we watch Netflix, Disney+, Prime, or Paramount, alone, in algorithmic silos.

Football used to be affordable and rooted in community; now it’s millionaires playing for the profitability of billionaires. The NHS, the post office, the railways -  all chipped away, run down, sold off or centralised, leaving people feeling powerless and disconnected.

And don’t get me wrong: some kind of  “Hovis Labour” nostalgia for the 1950s isn’t the answer. The country back then was often intolerant, grey, and deeply unequal. But what we’ve built since is a society that gives people little to hold in common, no collective story about who we are or what we’re for.

I reckon that’s partly why my mate marched. Not because he wants to turn back the clock. But because he wants to feel pride again.  Pride in a country that is inclusive, fair, and offers a role for everyone. Pride in a nation that has a respected place in the world, tackles grotesque inequality, and gives people something real to believe in.

Polanyi warned that when democracies fail to provide a humane alternative, the backlash can turn authoritarian. This is how fascism grew in the 1930s, not because everyone became a true believer, but because millions felt abandoned and looked for strength, identity, and meaning wherever they could find it.

If Labour and progressives don’t offer that story of renewal, if we don’t rebuild our national institutions, restore collective pride, and re-embed markets within society, the far right will do it for us, in their own image.

And by then, it will be too late.

12 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Just look at this very forum. We are all guilty of it at times though.

😆

I'd say some of the folks on here are prime candidates for this very thing.

Again because legislation is dull and things take a looooooong time to change.

 

3 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Been sent this by a mate, supposedly posted on social media by a Labour left wing MP:

 

Believe it or not, I had an old school friend on today’s marches in London. He sent me some photos from the crowd.

We went to middle school together and grew up on the same Eastern District council estate in Northampton.

I asked him why he was there. He gave me two answers:
 1. “The government doesn’t listen to us.”
 2. “I want to feel proud of my country again.”

He wore a Union Jack, not a St George’s Cross as he said that one had been hijacked by racists. 

He wasn’t there for Hopkins, Musk, or any of the professional grifters’ as he put it. He was there to feel part of something bigger, though he admitted there were a lot of, in his words, “assholes” there.

He’s an electrician. He’s smart. He’s not racist, but he’s not “PC” either. He’s not a fan of Keir Starmer but he also believes Farage would be a disaster. 

Oh yes, he’s  a bundle of contradictions! But aren’t we all? 

I don’t know what ‘box’ we put him  or the millions like him  in. And I think pretending they’re all racists or fascists would be a massive mistake.

Some were. But not all.

This is about something bigger than immigration slogans or GDP numbers. For decades we’ve hollowed out our national life, underfunding and undermining the very institutions that once brought us together.

Karl Polanyi, writing in The Great Transformation, argued that when markets are “disembodied” from society, when land, labour, and life itself are treated as commodities
 society pushes back. He called this the “double movement”: people seeking to protect themselves, to reclaim dignity and meaning when everything solid seems to melt into air.

That’s what I saw in my friend’s photos. Not just anger, but a demand for belonging.

We’ve replaced collective experience with atomisation. Without getting too nostalgic, programmes like the BBC’s Generation Game once pulled in millions every Saturday night, giving us something we could all talk about on Monday morning. Now we watch Netflix, Disney+, Prime, or Paramount, alone, in algorithmic silos.

Football used to be affordable and rooted in community; now it’s millionaires playing for the profitability of billionaires. The NHS, the post office, the railways -  all chipped away, run down, sold off or centralised, leaving people feeling powerless and disconnected.

And don’t get me wrong: some kind of  “Hovis Labour” nostalgia for the 1950s isn’t the answer. The country back then was often intolerant, grey, and deeply unequal. But what we’ve built since is a society that gives people little to hold in common, no collective story about who we are or what we’re for.

I reckon that’s partly why my mate marched. Not because he wants to turn back the clock. But because he wants to feel pride again.  Pride in a country that is inclusive, fair, and offers a role for everyone. Pride in a nation that has a respected place in the world, tackles grotesque inequality, and gives people something real to believe in.

Polanyi warned that when democracies fail to provide a humane alternative, the backlash can turn authoritarian. This is how fascism grew in the 1930s, not because everyone became a true believer, but because millions felt abandoned and looked for strength, identity, and meaning wherever they could find it.

If Labour and progressives don’t offer that story of renewal, if we don’t rebuild our national institutions, restore collective pride, and re-embed markets within society, the far right will do it for us, in their own image.

And by then, it will be too late.

Clive Lewis posted it on twitter.
 

 

2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Been sent this by a mate, supposedly posted on social media by a Labour left wing MP:

 

Believe it or not, I had an old school friend on today’s marches in London. He sent me some photos from the crowd.

We went to middle school together and grew up on the same Eastern District council estate in Northampton.

I asked him why he was there. He gave me two answers:
 1. “The government doesn’t listen to us.”
 2. “I want to feel proud of my country again.”

He wore a Union Jack, not a St George’s Cross as he said that one had been hijacked by racists. 

He wasn’t there for Hopkins, Musk, or any of the professional grifters’ as he put it. He was there to feel part of something bigger, though he admitted there were a lot of, in his words, “assholes” there.

He’s an electrician. He’s smart. He’s not racist, but he’s not “PC” either. He’s not a fan of Keir Starmer but he also believes Farage would be a disaster. 

Oh yes, he’s  a bundle of contradictions! But aren’t we all? 

I don’t know what ‘box’ we put him  or the millions like him  in. And I think pretending they’re all racists or fascists would be a massive mistake.

Some were. But not all.

This is about something bigger than immigration slogans or GDP numbers. For decades we’ve hollowed out our national life, underfunding and undermining the very institutions that once brought us together.

Karl Polanyi, writing in The Great Transformation, argued that when markets are “disembodied” from society, when land, labour, and life itself are treated as commodities
 society pushes back. He called this the “double movement”: people seeking to protect themselves, to reclaim dignity and meaning when everything solid seems to melt into air.

That’s what I saw in my friend’s photos. Not just anger, but a demand for belonging.

We’ve replaced collective experience with atomisation. Without getting too nostalgic, programmes like the BBC’s Generation Game once pulled in millions every Saturday night, giving us something we could all talk about on Monday morning. Now we watch Netflix, Disney+, Prime, or Paramount, alone, in algorithmic silos.

Football used to be affordable and rooted in community; now it’s millionaires playing for the profitability of billionaires. The NHS, the post office, the railways -  all chipped away, run down, sold off or centralised, leaving people feeling powerless and disconnected.

And don’t get me wrong: some kind of  “Hovis Labour” nostalgia for the 1950s isn’t the answer. The country back then was often intolerant, grey, and deeply unequal. But what we’ve built since is a society that gives people little to hold in common, no collective story about who we are or what we’re for.

I reckon that’s partly why my mate marched. Not because he wants to turn back the clock. But because he wants to feel pride again.  Pride in a country that is inclusive, fair, and offers a role for everyone. Pride in a nation that has a respected place in the world, tackles grotesque inequality, and gives people something real to believe in.

Polanyi warned that when democracies fail to provide a humane alternative, the backlash can turn authoritarian. This is how fascism grew in the 1930s, not because everyone became a true believer, but because millions felt abandoned and looked for strength, identity, and meaning wherever they could find it.

If Labour and progressives don’t offer that story of renewal, if we don’t rebuild our national institutions, restore collective pride, and re-embed markets within society, the far right will do it for us, in their own image.

And by then, it will be too late.

Think many people have been saying the same thing for years. But to make effective change you have to have the levers of power, and effective story of change is a more difficult sell than the populist politics of anger, and has also been said many times before politicians of different parties have let parts of this country down. Some parts thrive and others are wilting on the vine a long term legacy that will take decades to fix. It'd take a brave party and an electorate with more future foresight to install a government making spending promises now for grand or great grandchildren benefits.

Short term financial gain for those already far wealthier than Joe Public has done more damage to the west than any amount of immigrants. The destruction of British industry to be sold off to foreign conglomerates and make the rich richer will be the downfall.

I suspect that if Clive Lewis' friend exists at all, he doesn't understand him as much as he thinks he does

25 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Clive Lewis posted it on twitter.
 

 

As stated earlier, we need to avoid simply reposting tweets and express our own opinions hopefully based on facts.

This is not debate or discussion in my book.

Everyone is shouting and saying nothing.

1 minute ago, Dimron said:

As stated earlier, we need to avoid simply reposting tweets and express our own opinions hopefully based on facts.

This is not debate or discussion in my book.

Everyone is shouting and saying nothing.

I was just clarifying who posted it for Winchester White. And I will post whatever I want, thankyou very much.

13 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I suspect that if Clive Lewis' friend exists at all, he doesn't understand him as much as he thinks he does

I didn't know when I posted it who the author was and in general I don't agree with his policitics. But there's not too much to disagree with imo on the state of things at the moment.

 

30 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I didn't know when I posted it who the author was and in general I don't agree with his policitics. But there's not too much to disagree with imo on the state of things at the moment.

 

It's not without merit but it's that idea that people's issues with immigration can be solved without addressing their issues with immigration again

It's similar to the mistake the Remain campaign made during the EU referendum

7 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

It's not without merit but it's that idea that people's issues with immigration can be solved without addressing their issues with immigration again

It's similar to the mistake the Remain campaign made during the EU referendum

What? Do you mean we cant just turn the boats away back to France? Oh, and when will the penny finally drop that immigration in this country is 96% legal and has nothing to do with small boats?

1 hour ago, Winchester White said:

Been sent this by a mate, supposedly posted on social media by a Labour left wing MP:

 

Believe it or not, I had an old school friend on today’s marches in London. He sent me some photos from the crowd.

We went to middle school together and grew up on the same Eastern District council estate in Northampton.

I asked him why he was there. He gave me two answers:
 1. “The government doesn’t listen to us.”
 2. “I want to feel proud of my country again.”

He wore a Union Jack, not a St George’s Cross as he said that one had been hijacked by racists. 

He wasn’t there for Hopkins, Musk, or any of the professional grifters’ as he put it. He was there to feel part of something bigger, though he admitted there were a lot of, in his words, “assholes” there.

He’s an electrician. He’s smart. He’s not racist, but he’s not “PC” either. He’s not a fan of Keir Starmer but he also believes Farage would be a disaster. 

Oh yes, he’s  a bundle of contradictions! But aren’t we all? 

I don’t know what ‘box’ we put him  or the millions like him  in. And I think pretending they’re all racists or fascists would be a massive mistake.

Some were. But not all.

This is about something bigger than immigration slogans or GDP numbers. For decades we’ve hollowed out our national life, underfunding and undermining the very institutions that once brought us together.

Karl Polanyi, writing in The Great Transformation, argued that when markets are “disembodied” from society, when land, labour, and life itself are treated as commodities
 society pushes back. He called this the “double movement”: people seeking to protect themselves, to reclaim dignity and meaning when everything solid seems to melt into air.

That’s what I saw in my friend’s photos. Not just anger, but a demand for belonging.

We’ve replaced collective experience with atomisation. Without getting too nostalgic, programmes like the BBC’s Generation Game once pulled in millions every Saturday night, giving us something we could all talk about on Monday morning. Now we watch Netflix, Disney+, Prime, or Paramount, alone, in algorithmic silos.

Football used to be affordable and rooted in community; now it’s millionaires playing for the profitability of billionaires. The NHS, the post office, the railways -  all chipped away, run down, sold off or centralised, leaving people feeling powerless and disconnected.

And don’t get me wrong: some kind of  “Hovis Labour” nostalgia for the 1950s isn’t the answer. The country back then was often intolerant, grey, and deeply unequal. But what we’ve built since is a society that gives people little to hold in common, no collective story about who we are or what we’re for.

I reckon that’s partly why my mate marched. Not because he wants to turn back the clock. But because he wants to feel pride again.  Pride in a country that is inclusive, fair, and offers a role for everyone. Pride in a nation that has a respected place in the world, tackles grotesque inequality, and gives people something real to believe in.

Polanyi warned that when democracies fail to provide a humane alternative, the backlash can turn authoritarian. This is how fascism grew in the 1930s, not because everyone became a true believer, but because millions felt abandoned and looked for strength, identity, and meaning wherever they could find it.

If Labour and progressives don’t offer that story of renewal, if we don’t rebuild our national institutions, restore collective pride, and re-embed markets within society, the far right will do it for us, in their own image.

And by then, it will be too late.

And then you get this clown posting this. 
 

 

A total hypocrite.

I saw one of his tweets banging on about 9 arrests and more to follow, hijacked flags blah, blah, blah.

Then one about the wonderful Notting Hill carnival; all its glory, colour etc.

Not a single comment about hundreds of arrests.

Not a single comment about arrests made of counter protestors as far as I can see neither.

Just ratchets up the tension another notch.

Nobbers the lot of them.

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

Clive Lewis posted it on twitter.
 

 

I met Clive Lewis at university. Very passionate about politics, think he was the Student Union leader. 

6 hours ago, royal white said:

Sound pretty much like what’s happening now with Starmer 

I liked Boris as an English eccentric.

I still do.

5 hours ago, kent_white said:

To be fair Paul. That argument works both ways. 

It's a poor do when we can't even speak to each other any more. 

It is. And it's your side of politics who has made it so.

5 hours ago, kent_white said:

My spectacles are well and truly removed. I just can't fathom what Labour are supposed to have done which is drastically different than what the Tories did during their time in office when it comes to immigration. 

Happy for you to educate me of course.........

Constant U turns (Starmer). Hypocrisy (Rayner). Mandelson (slimeball - "yes but whatabout, whatabout, whatabout Trump"). Confustication ('shall we back gays or muslims). Driving job and wealth creators out (Reeves).

Need I really go on?

5 hours ago, gonzo said:

Labour got the blame for a global recession instigated by the banking collapse in the US.

I wouldn't trust our electorate.

We voted to throw ourselves off a cliff not long after as well.

 You drama queen!

The world has ended as far as the UK is concerned eh? Sun doesn't come up any more?

Has it fuck as like.

13 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

It is. And it's your side of politics who has made it so.

Irony personified. Again.

1 hour ago, royal white said:

And then you get this clown posting this. 
 

 

What an utter wanker that cunt Khan really is. I struggle to see how he can get elected. Quite possibly the most divisive prick in UK politics. A lying, hypocritical cunt of the highest order.