Olympics

[L/H White]

9 hours ago, wiggy said:

Can’t seem to find a good explanation anywhere of the situation with the boxer. They’re obviously identifying as a woman now but have they confirmed whether they were born as a man or woman? Or is it unknown? 

Yeah I'm confused I haven't seen much of the boxing, just assumed with the uproar he was born with a willy

[L/H White]

10 hours ago, Marc505 said:

I'm thinking more of the spectacle for the JCLs like me 😃

Saw the BMX racing earlier, that is wild stuff.

10k should be a decent race tonight 

[Underpants]

19 hours ago, burnden said:

Fucked up this is.

It's a woman with high testosterone. Not a bloke. I'm assuming it's the same sort of condition that South Africa athlete Caster Semenya had a few years ago. She had to go through plenty of degrading test and was suspended until the authorities could decide what to do. I think she was eventually allowed to run again but only if she reduced her testosterone levels. Anyway this boxing problem is a governance issue and not really the boxers fault.

More to the point. I found it absolutely ridiculous that any boxer should stop fighting after just 46 seconds because they were getting hurt. The sport is about hurt. The Italian needs to toughen up or improve her technique, or both. Plenty women spar with men.

[Jol_BWFC]

Just now, Underpants said:

It's a woman with high testosterone. Not a bloke. I'm assuming it's the same sort of condition that South Africa athlete Caster Semenya had a few years ago. She had to go through plenty of degrading test and was suspended until the authorities could decide what to do. I think she was eventually allowed to run again but only if she reduced her testosterone levels. Anyway this boxing problem is a governance issue and not really the boxers fault.

More to the point. I found it absolutely ridiculous that any boxer should stop fighting after just 46 seconds because they were getting hurt. The sport is about hurt. The Italian needs to toughen up or improve her technique, or both. Plenty women spar with men.

The Algerian has lost 9 of her 50 fights, so she’s certainly not unbeatable. Odd decision from the Italian. Maybe she just surrendered (with an excuse) before she got convincingly beaten by the better boxer.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

28 minutes ago, Underpants said:

It's a woman with high testosterone.

The reality is there'll be more to it than that

It's bit of a moral minefield

[MalcolmW]

12 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The reality is there'll be more to it than that

It's bit of a moral minefield

Surprisingly, or possibly not, Putin is part of the problem.

In other news a woman called Tran just won a 100m preliminary round heat for Vietnam.

[Krimzon]

1 hour ago, L/H White said:

Yeah I'm confused I haven't seen much of the boxing, just assumed with the uproar he was born with a willy

XY chromasomes , therefore male.  

From what I can gather think its a case of being intersex i.e. internal testes instead of ovaries , with external female genitalia .

We all start off as female and change in utero , so out of all the billions of cases there are bound to be a few anomalies. 

[Krimzon]

1 hour ago, Underpants said:

It's a woman with high testosterone. Not a bloke.

No its not . The high testosterone is because the boxer is male as was proven with the previous sex test which showed XY chromasomes. 

[L/H White]

Unlucky in the rowing 

[Underpants]

7 minutes ago, Krimzon said:

No its not . The high testosterone is because the boxer is male as was proven with the previous sex test which showed XY chromasomes. 

I'm asking because I don't know. Are you saying that they were born male and the birth certificate confirms this?

[Krimzon]

8 minutes ago, Underpants said:

I'm asking because I don't know. Are you saying that they were born male and the birth certificate confirms this?

I dont know what was on the birth certificate but I would imagine it probably says female due to the external genetalia . But when both boxers were tested by the governing boxing board they were both found to have XY chromasomes which makes them male . From my (limited) knowledge this happens due to having internal testicles instead of ovaries , which produces the higher testosterone. 

So they developed as a male would , going through a male puberty and growth whilst thinking of themselves as female and probably brought up as female.

So the high testosterone is a symptom of the condition rather than the cause of the "anomaly".

Sharron Davies is a lot more researched than I am and she explained it a lot better than me on social media. 

Edited August 2, 2024 by Krimzon
cos I dont explain very well.

[Underpants]

6 minutes ago, Krimzon said:

I dont know what was on the birth certificate but I would imagine it probably says female due to the external genetalia . But when both boxers were tested by the governing boxing board they were both found to have XY chromasomes which makes them male . From my (limited) knowledge this happens due to having internal testicles instead of ovaries , which produces the higher testosterone. 

So they developed as a male would , going through a male puberty and growth whilst thinking of themselves as female and probably brought up as female.

So the high testosterone is a symptom of the condition rather than the cause of the "anomaly".

Sharron Davies is a lot more researched than I am and she explained it a lot better than me on social media. 

It's all too complex for me. But even with all the available scientific information available the IOC has sanctioned it. Is it cheating? I would say no. Is it an unfair advantage? Probably yes. Either way we know that Italian boxers are soft.

[Cheese]

37 minutes ago, Krimzon said:

No its not . The high testosterone is because the boxer is male as was proven with the previous sex test which showed XY chromasomes. 

The methodology and results of that test have never been released.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Underpants said:

It's all too complex for me. But even with all the available scientific information available the IOC has sanctioned it. Is it cheating? I would say no. Is it an unfair advantage? Probably yes. Either way we know that Italian boxers are soft.

The IOC have taken a political rather than a scientific stance and have it that anyone who's legal sex is recorded as female on their passport can qualify

[wiggy]

29 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The IOC have taken a political rather than a scientific stance and have it that anyone who's legal sex is recorded as female on their passport can qualify

And this seems way too simplistic an approach for me

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

26 minutes ago, wiggy said:

And this seems way too simplistic an approach for me

Yeah, it is

[jmjhb]

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

What a terrible criticism of the Italian. Bottled it my arse.

Perhaps listen to her interview. The footage nshows clearly the effect of the blows on her- knocking her backwards.

She's absolutely right that her safety comes first. An unbalanced risk, and no chance of reward.

When senior boxing commentators etc, say its dangerous, then it's time to stop.

 

[frank_spencer]

Where was al this outcry at the Algerian in 2020 when she competed?

boohoo you got punched in the face by a lass stronger than you. That's called boxing.

Edited August 2, 2024 by frank_spencer

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

@MalcolmW - what are your thoughts on repechage rounds?

[Krimzon]

2 hours ago, Underpants said:

It's all too complex for me. But even with all the available scientific information available the IOC has sanctioned it. Is it cheating? I would say no. Is it an unfair advantage? Probably yes. Either way we know that Italian boxers are soft.

Yeah , its not the Algerians fault . Done nothing wrong and given the green light by the IOC .

[Krimzon]

Gold in the bouncing. Get In . 

[gonzo]

1 hour ago, frank_spencer said:

Where was al this outcry at the Algerian in 2020 when she competed?

boohoo you got punched in the face by a lass stronger than you. That's called boxing.

Tbf She's been banned by IBA but bizarrely allowed to compete in this.

It's a shame for the lass but she's got a genetic anomaly that puts her testosterone closer to male and than female. 

Her chromosomes pretty much have her as a hermaphrodite.

....if she was taking testosterone as PED she would be banned.

[Ani]

How many of our gold medal winners have sung 'Queen' instead of 'King'

 

The trampolinerist did . 

[Cheese]

55 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Tbf She's been banned by IBA but bizarrely allowed to compete in this.

It's a shame for the lass but she's got a genetic anomaly that puts her testosterone closer to male and than female. 

Her chromosomes pretty much have her as a hermaphrodite.

....if she was taking testosterone as PED she would be banned.

Nobody has been able to confirm her chromosones. All we know for certain is - she was born a girl, and her father refused to let her go to boxing training when she was young because he didn't believe girls should box ( I'm assuming he saw her genitals when she was a baby). She may have a genetic advantage, but don't most successful sportsmen/women?

Edited August 2, 2024 by Cheese