Wrexham (A) - EFL Trophy

[Lostock Whites]

8 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Thought we were the better side for large chunks tonight, just lacked that cutting edge up top (again) and they took their one half decent chance

Was gutted when we got knocked out at Blackpool last year, but I’ll kind of take this one in the Hot Fuzz sense of the greater good

How the fuck that upper tier gets a safety certificate is beyond me, was a bloody nightmare having folk push past all night

Sainsbury’s a great parking spot for anyone driving to the league game

I think from a tactical standpoint I feel that we almost nearly have to play with wingers going forward now like we did against Crawley.

None of the strikers scored in the 4 goals we had, it would certainly put less pressure on the front man than in a 3421 system 

Edited February 12, 2025 by Lostock Whites

[L/H White]

1 hour ago, masi 51 said:

It is evident that a lot is wrong with the squad Schumacher inherited. The average fan can see that looking in.

Snippets of gossip got leaked out about training and senior management not being present. I thought the team  would get tinkered with come the summer and we would go with the majority of the current squad next season. It is clear now a re-build is needed.  We have about 7 out of contract in the summer and none are currently showing enough to merit a new contract. Santos would get another chance to see if he can play in Schumacher quicker system in getting the ball forward 

Baxter has lost interest, Jones has been excellent but he is not the player he was, Cogley is not a full back or winger more a steady eddie but is not what is needed. Firino not a clue.. Forrester, Toal keep and Johnston is another who can flourish under Schumacher. Conway we have no clue about. Midfield keep Morley, Sheehan and  Randall .Promote Sharples to the squad

Send Matete back to Sunderland.....Listen to offers for Thomason, Schon, Lolos, Mcatee....Same with Vic

Get someone decent alongside Collins and get some physicality in both Midfield and up front.

Think we will limp in now until the summer.......Cannot now see us top 6 this season with this squad

Agree with most bar Schon

[Lostock Whites]

Also on a side note, im really concerned about Thomason this season. Never doubted his effort, but his ability has seriously gone down this season.

Runs around like a headless chicken, giving away silly fouls, rash on the ball, incredibly one footed. I think he needs the Santos treatment, captaincy taken away for now and put some pressure off him.

There is a player in there but it really hasn't shown at all this season.

 

[desperado]

10 minutes ago, Lostock Whites said:

I think from a tactical standpoint I feel that we almost nearly have to play with wingers going forward now like we did against Crawley.

None of the strikers scored in the 4 goals we had, it would certainly put less pressure on the front man than in a 3421 system 

I agree with that. Something we discussed coming back.

It’s a good option to have now, and great that SS is using this either to start with as he did Saturday or change to as he did last night.

The one counter argument to this though, is we looked a good scoring threat after the 4 subs on Saturday when reverting to 3-5-2! 

Edited February 12, 2025 by desperado

[gonzo]

Jesus, one tricky result in the Papa John's and we are shipping half the squad off

[ianofcleveleys]

11 minutes ago, desperado said:

You may prove to be right.

But to make that judgment now, after a game with a disjointed team, with no options to achieve any balance, with probably 6 changes off our strongest line up, seems a bit harsh. 

The positives and all the failings were laid bare on Saturday, and in the striking department the Saturday before. SS will have learned a lot 

Last night was something of a free learning hit for him, so few options so had to try and come up with something out of those available.

[L/H White]

5 minutes ago, Lostock Whites said:

Also on a side note, im really concerned about Thomason this season. Never doubted his effort, but his ability has seriously gone down this season.

Runs around like a headless chicken, giving away silly fouls, rash on the ball, incredibly one footed. I think he needs the Santos treatment, captaincy taken away for now and put some pressure off him.

There is a player in there but it really hasn't shown at all this season.

 

I pretty much said this word for word last night and was slated for it 

And it's not off the back of this one game either 

 

[desperado]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Jesus, one tricky result in the Papa John's and we are shipping half the squad off

 

1 minute ago, ianofcleveleys said:

The positives and all the failings were laid bare on Saturday, and in the striking department the Saturday before. SS will have learned a lot 

Last night was something of a free learning hit for him, so few options so had to try and come up with something out of those available.

I’m biting my tongue a bit, especially when the theme for these EFL trophy games on here when we’ve won has been we can’t draw anything from them, they mean very little, not arsed if we lose, discount these in wider scheme of form/stats etc.

Now all of a sudden 1 loss in a game of this nature and thats it, decision made, we’re not good enough to get in the top 6! 

[masi 51]

10 minutes ago, L/H White said:

Agree with most bar Schon

Schon is a hard one.......He is another Evatt Hybrid neither a winger or defender, he puts a shift in every game and gets busy but where would he fit in??

Left side of a midfield if we played tight and without wingers.....Same as Cogley on the other side.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, Lostock Whites said:

Also on a side note, im really concerned about Thomason this season. Never doubted his effort, but his ability has seriously gone down this season.

Runs around like a headless chicken, giving away silly fouls, rash on the ball, incredibly one footed. I think he needs the Santos treatment, captaincy taken away for now and put some pressure off him.

There is a player in there but it really hasn't shown at all this season.

 

Symptomatic of the season. 

Why the fuck a manager thinks he, sheehan or whoever, is good enough to dominate in a two man midfield is baffling.

I appreciate SS went for it last night, but it certainly didn't help one bit.

Given Sheehan's efforts on Saturday, if he was determined to take a midfielder off, I would have thought resting him would have made more sense.

The other two are or have been serving bans so should be relatively fresh.

Hopefully, he will have learned some more about his players.

[desperado]

18 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Symptomatic of the season. 

Why the fuck a manager thinks he, sheehan or whoever, is good enough to dominate in a two man midfield is baffling.

I appreciate SS went for it last night, but it certainly didn't help one bit.

Given Sheehan's efforts on Saturday, if he was determined to take a midfielder off, I would have thought resting him would have made more sense.

The other two are or have been serving bans so should be relatively fresh.

Hopefully, he will have learned some more about his players.

I agree, I think more than anything, last night would have been a good lesson for SS, seeing some of our traits, (possession with little cutting edge) frailties (Vic being a poor target man) and even successes (Toal back to his best, Sheehan dictating again) 

I think the 2 man midfield was forced on him through trying to get back in the game getting forward players on, but being limited with his options.

For SS it was a game he wanted us to win, so I can see why Sheehan stayed on.

Think he went 4-3-3 at the end as he both realised that 5-2-3 wasn’t working and it was a last throw of the dice to try and salvage something.

It’s a real positive that he was able to use a competitive game like that to experiment and find out a lot more about what these players can/can’t do.

FWIW I didn’t think Thomason was anything like as poor as some are making out. I’m still having Sheehan and Morley on the team sheet in front, but all this ineffective, headless chicken nonsense is way over the top.

 

Edited February 12, 2025 by desperado

[auckland_bwfc]

Got stuck with the Wrexham comms last night and they described thommos (and sheehan) performance as "purring" 

Think he's somewhere in the middle of headless chicken and a jaguar.

 

[thebells]

8 hours ago, desperado said:

I’m assuming that’s slightly tongue in cheek pal?

I think the 5 games since his departure have seen the players perform much better than they were doing for Evatt at the end. 

And harsh to judge on a night like tonight with an unusual team selection with so many unavailable. I actually thought there were some decent performances out there; Toal, Johnston, Forrester, Cogley, Sheehan, Matete.

Sometimes the result doesn’t tell the story. That losing performance was much better on the eye than the Lincoln victory in the previous round. 

Well, only a little. Can see @Dr. Feelgood has replied to my quote too. 

Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. I’m not defending Evatt at all. It’s his squad and when he said it, there was a lot of self preservation. 

But in terms of inconsistency, I think he’s right. This team will keep conceding goals and I think will keep winning one and losing one. We ‘might’ make the play offs but it’ll be extremely close. 

IE’s responsible for the squad, and SS can only work with what he’s got. The soft underbelly is still there. All SS can really do is try to mould something better than Evatt could do with his own squad. 

[Rizlar]

8 minutes ago, desperado said:

I agree, I think more than anything, last night would have been a good lesson for SS, seeing some of our traits, (possession with little cutting edge) frailties (Vic being a poor target man) and even successes (Toal back to his best, Sheehan dictating again) 

I think the 2 man midfield was forced on him through trying to get back in the game getting forward players on, but being limited with his options.

For SS it was a game he wanted us to win, so I can see why Sheehan stayed on.

Think he went 4-3-3 at the end as he both realised that 5-2-3 wasn’t working and it was a last throw of the dice to try and salvage something.

It’s a real positive that he was able to use a competitive game like that to experiment and find out a lot more about what these players can/can’t do.

FWIW I didn’t think Thomason was anything like as poor as some are making out. I’m still having Sheehan and Morley on the team sheet in front, but all this ineffective, headless chicken nonsense is way over the top.

 

Good post that was my thinking from the start with regards to SS having a look at other players , Vic busted flush for me given him lots of time but he just hasn’t got it as for Mcatee does anybody know what he brings to the team apart from throwing his arms in the air . 

[meanderson93]

1 hour ago, Stig said:

Noone is putting an offer of money in for Vic.

He'd do a job for Warrington Town to be fair. 

Edited February 12, 2025 by meanderson93

[Barnstoneworth White]

Of all 1250 seats last night, mine had to be the one behind the drummer boy.  He didn't stop all game and gave it some hammer as my yedwarch can testify this morning.

[L/H White]

4 minutes ago, Barnstoneworth White said:

Of all 1250 seats last night, mine had to be the one behind the drummer boy.  He didn't stop all game and gave it some hammer as my yedwarch can testify this morning.

Haha the police was talking to him after the game 

No idea what about like

[desperado]

18 minutes ago, thebells said:

Well, only a little. Can see @Dr. Feelgood has replied to my quote too. 

Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. I’m not defending Evatt at all. It’s his squad and when he said it, there was a lot of self preservation. 

But in terms of inconsistency, I think he’s right. This team will keep conceding goals and I think will keep winning one and losing one. We ‘might’ make the play offs but it’ll be extremely close. 

IE’s responsible for the squad, and SS can only work with what he’s got. The soft underbelly is still there. All SS can really do is try to mould something better than Evatt could do with his own squad. 

With a bit more explanation, what you are saying makes sense.

There seems to be 3 points of view at the minute about the potential of this squad.

1/ It’s good enough to reach the play-offs, possibly even win them. Evatt was severely holding back its potential with his persona, behaviour and tactical inflexibility. In the games since his departure, without ignoring there’s still frailties, there’s been some positive signs that SS can get a much better tune out of them.

2/ Is where I’d say your point of view is. The soft underbelly is too prominent, inconsistencies will continue and we may not make the play-offs, but SS remains largely blameless as this squad is in the mould of Evatt 

3/ The extreme of 2. The squad is just too weak. Major changes and a rebuild  will be needed in the summer. We can pretty much write the play-offs out.

All 3 are reasonable, as long as SS is given time and patience to get this right.

Of course there’ll be a 4th option which will materialise if inconsistencies continue. Hopefully not seen on here but no doubt prominent on other social media outlets, where SS will be blamed, criticised and vilified if we fail this season.

Think I’m still in one, but accept that’s an optimists outlook 😊

[Rival Son]

4 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

Probably due to Evatt not having them as fit as they should be.This is an area along with training them how to defend and attack set pieces more competently that a better manager will have the sane players achieving more.

And how to finish, how to pass first time, how to press, how to man-mark.

Schumacher and his team have a lot of catching up to do. It’s as if the players were only ever coached on the system, while the fundamentals were ignored for four and a half years.

[woolli]

I think the rest of the season is a free hit for SS. If we get into the play-offs, great, but if not, its only the squad he inherited. Hes only trying to do better with a lot of the shit Evatt signed.. The guys at the top also need to take some responsibility for sanctioning some of Evatts big money signings. A considerable amount wasted at this level.

[thebells]

30 minutes ago, desperado said:

With a bit more explanation, what you are saying makes sense.

There seems to be 3 points of view at the minute about the potential of this squad.

1/ It’s good enough to reach the play-offs, possibly even win them. Evatt was severely holding back its potential with his persona, behaviour and tactical inflexibility. In the games since his departure, without ignoring there’s still frailties, there’s been some positive signs that SS can get a much better tune out of them.

2/ Is where I’d say your point of view is. The soft underbelly is too prominent, inconsistencies will continue and we may not make the play-offs, but SS remains largely blameless as this squad is in the mould of Evatt 

3/ The extreme of 2. The squad is just too weak. Major changes and a rebuild  will be needed in the summer. We can pretty much write the play-offs out.

All 3 are reasonable, as long as SS is given time and patience to get this right.

Of course there’ll be a 4th option which will materialise if inconsistencies continue. Hopefully not seen on here but no doubt prominent on other social media outlets, where SS will be blamed, criticised and vilified if we fail this season.

Think I’m still in one, but accept that’s an optimists outlook 😊

Yep I’m number 2 for sure. We might make the play offs and might even win them, but I’d personally be very surprised. I really hope I’m wrong too. 

I think we’re at a point where a new ‘core’ of players needs to established. Whereas it was Santos, Baxter, Sheehan, Jones and Dion, something new needs to emerge before SS can truly identify his core then drive the squad forward in his own mould. I’d be looking at Southwood, Johnstone, Toal, Thomason and Schon to name a few. I do think they’ll emerge fairly quickly, and it’s also why I think Santos may not play for us again (though this prediction could age very quickly) 

There’s also some moving on to do. Baxter, Jones, Vic, Santos all need to make way for the new guard. And SS has already said he likes his teams to have pace. So I expect a few more Tutu’s to come along. 

What division we’re in will determine a lot. But I think SS has a bit of a job to do personally. 
 

As for SS, you’re spot on. Lose on Saturday and followed with games again Brum and Wrexham. ‘Some’ fans may turn quite quickly! But most reasonable people can see he needs time to sort this out. 

[ianofcleveleys]

2 hours ago, desperado said:

 

I’m biting my tongue a bit, especially when the theme for these EFL trophy games on here when we’ve won has been we can’t draw anything from them, they mean very little, not arsed if we lose, discount these in wider scheme of form/stats etc.

Now all of a sudden 1 loss in a game of this nature and thats it, decision made, we’re not good enough to get in the top 6! 

I haven't said that anywhere, in fact, going back a couple of weeks I did say, when some were saying 'it's a write off, SS is just preparing for next season' that it's perfectly possible for us to get in that bottom play off place, even with 3 or 4 losses to the usual suspects. 

Last night's game or result hasn't changed anything, indeed it was encouraging we nearly kept another clean sheet, all I was saying is the three games SS has seen will have put in sharp relief where he has positives to grasp hold of but also where our failings and fragilities are.

[Whitesince63]

We just don’t have any physical presence anywhere on the pitch and last night showed it again. Wrexhams players just like Crawleys on Saturday weren’t any bigger than us but they won most of the tackles and just brushed us off. It’s too late to address that this season so we’ll just have to make do but assuming we don’t go up it needs a big rebuild in the summer. Unlike some I’d still hope Rico stays and reverts back to the central physical barrier he was before trying to become a Piro or something he’s not but either way we need more strength all over the park instead of being bullied all the time.

[desperado]

2 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Last night was something of a free learning hit for him, so few options so had to try and come up with something out of those available.

 

12 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

I haven't said that anywhere, in fact, going back a couple of weeks I did say, when some were saying 'it's a write off, SS is just preparing for next season' that it's perfectly possible for us to get in that bottom play off place, even with 3 or 4 losses to the usual suspects. 

Last night's game or result hasn't changed anything, indeed it was encouraging we nearly kept another clean sheet, all I was saying is the three games SS has seen will have put in sharp relief where he has positives to grasp hold of but also where our failings and fragilities are.

I was quoting you because I was agreeing with you! 😊

And your point about it being a free hit and trying to come up with something different, in difficult circumstances, was a good one!

As apposed to some people only seeing negatives and finding evidence for why last night should be used as evidence for not getting in the play-offs

[desperado]

7 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

they won most of the tackles and just brushed us off.

In the moment, being there, it didn’t feel like that.

So I’ve just looked at the stats, I was surprised that Wrexham edged it on tackles, but it was close, certainly not a case of them brushing us off.

Well into the 2nd half they didn’t lay a glove on us, they hadn’t had a shot and I suspect they were having to make more tackles to nullify a wave of pressure coming into their half consistently for 65/70 minutes. 

I’m really not getting this having no presence, as in not competing, not imposing ourselves, last night. 

I can accept criticism of individuals, debates over tactics/formations and frailties in areas such as not turning possession into goals. 

But to suggest that we didn’t compete, were brushed away and that this somehow translates into us not making the play-offs seems very wide of the mark.