gudnisson Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 It does not matter what the 23 man squad is or the formation we play because keeping and passing the ball is essential to any team with aspirations of winning the world cup. I'm afraid we always struggle to keep enough possession especially against the big guns. Last night's game against Mexico showed that even a lesser team keeps it and passes better than England. 3-1 was a hugely flattering result as we were outplayed for most of it. Granted, we did not play as physically as we should have and I think we would beat Mexico if there was anything at stake. However, none of our midfield could link up as well as they did in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frandsen08 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 my first game to see england at the new wembley last night and i had a cracking day. i agree that we couldnt keep the ball enough, michael carrick was shocking, walcott is such a one trick pony and has very little in his locker in terms of beating a man milner gave the ball away a lot and ledley king panics when the ball was on his left foot. i really hope lampard and gerrard play together in the middle with lennon on one wing and milner on the other. last night gave me a taste for the World cup and i cannot wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 It does not matter what the 23 man squad is or the formation we play because keeping and passing the ball is essential to any team with aspirations of winning the world cup. I'm afraid we always struggle to keep enough possession especially against the big guns. Last night's game against Mexico showed that even a lesser team keeps it and passes better than England. 3-1 was a hugely flattering result as we were outplayed for most of it. Granted, we did not play as physically as we should have and I think we would beat Mexico if there was anything at stake. However, none of our midfield could link up as well as they did in the first half. a midfield 4 of Lennon, Hargreaves/Barry(possibly Huddlestone), Gerrard/Lampard, Milner/Cole/Johnson works a lot better than Gerrard out on the wide left. I'd like to see huddlestone play instead of Carrick against Nippon at the weekend for me Carrick offers less than nothing to the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 my first game to see england at the new wembley last night and i had a cracking day. i agree that we couldnt keep the ball enough, michael carrick was shocking, walcott is such a one trick pony and has very little in his locker in terms of beating a man milner gave the ball away a lot and ledley king panics when the ball was on his left foot. i really hope lampard and gerrard play together in the middle with lennon on one wing and milner on the other. last night gave me a taste for the World cup and i cannot wait! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! we had years of those two getting in each others way for england please someone tell me we're not going to end up with that scenario again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frandsen08 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! we had years of those two getting in each others way for england please someone tell me we're not going to end up with that scenario again? well lampard is going to walk back into the side, and if they lampard in the middle and gerrard outwide, gerrard will only move himself into the middle anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarian1979 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 well lampard is going to walk back into the side, and if they lampard in the middle and gerrard outwide, gerrard will only move himself into the middle anyways. One up top guys, certainly against the bigger countrys. Play your crouch's v algeria/slovenia and the like. Id seriously use the last friendly to play gerrard in the hole behind rooney. lampard and a n other in the middle. Two wide men (lennon and one other). Playing gerrard wide left is pointless, square pegs in round holes. If you want to play 4 4 2 and you dont want to both lampard and gerrard in the middle together, drop one, stop accomodating them out of position (brazil dont do it - alves has to warm bench cos maicon plays) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarian1979 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 a midfield 4 of Lennon, Hargreaves/Barry(possibly Huddlestone), Gerrard/Lampard, Milner/Cole/Johnson works a lot better than Gerrard out on the wide left. I'd like to see huddlestone play instead of Carrick against Nippon at the weekend for me Carrick offers less than nothing to the side. Carrick was poor last night (and i dont rate him that highly) and i agree with your comments if your going to play 4 4 2, thats the way forward. Id give Parker a run out in that position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frandsen08 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 the biggest problem with playing gerrard and lampard together is the cover in the middle with them both pushing on along with the wingers, i think if they are to play them both in the middle the u have to play one up top and then a defensive midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted May 25, 2010 Site Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2010 the biggest problem with playing gerrard and lampard together is the cover in the middle with them both pushing on along with the wingers, i think if they are to play them both in the middle the u have to play one up top and then a defensive midfielder. Agreed. The last thing England need is to end up playing a 4-0-6 formation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarian1979 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 the biggest problem with playing gerrard and lampard together is the cover in the middle with them both pushing on along with the wingers, i think if they are to play them both in the middle the u have to play one up top and then a defensive midfielder. Yep - gerrard in the hole, like he plays alot for liverpool, behind rooney. Two wingers (lennon) and whoever - struggling to decide. Lampard in the middle of midfield with one other, who does the sitting role. Dont get me wrong, i've nothing really agaisnt 4 4 2, i just think with the players we have (the gerrard and lampard situation, the lack of top class forwards aside from rooney - time for someone to quote crouch's international record - again tho if you list the opposition as well) i think having a look at the 4 5 1/4 3 3 whatever you want to call it may be worthwhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Yep - gerrard in the hole, like he plays alot for liverpool, behind rooney. Two wingers (lennon) and whoever - struggling to decide. Lampard in the middle of midfield with one other, who does the sitting role. Dont get me wrong, i've nothing really agaisnt 4 4 2, i just think with the players we have (the gerrard and lampard situation, the lack of top class forwards aside from rooney - time for someone to quote crouch's international record - again tho if you list the opposition as well) i think having a look at the 4 5 1/4 3 3 whatever you want to call it may be worthwhile whilst i think 451/433 is better for england, peter crouch's england goal scoring record is pretty good to be fair to the freak. 1 1 March 2006 Liverpool, England Uruguay 1?1 2?1 Friendly match 2 30 May 2006 Manchester, England Hungary 3?1 3?1 Friendly match 3 3 June 2006 Manchester, England Jamaica 3?0 6?0 Friendly match 4 3 June 2006 Manchester, England Jamaica 5?0 6?0 Friendly match 5 3 June 2006 Manchester, England Jamaica 6?0 6?0 Friendly match 6 15 June 2006 Nuremberg, Germany Trinidad and Tobago 1?0 2?0 2006 FIFA World Cup 7 16 August 2006 Manchester, England Greece 3?0 4?0 Friendly match 8 16 August 2006 Manchester, England Greece 4?0 4?0 Friendly match 9 2 September 2006 Manchester, England Andorra 1?0 5?0 UEFA Euro 2008 Qual. 10 2 September 2006 Manchester, England Andorra 5?0 5?0 UEFA Euro 2008 Qual. 11 6 September 2006 Skopje, Macedonia Macedonia 1?0 1?0 UEFA Euro 2008 Qual 12 6 June 2007 Tallinn, Estonia Estonia 2?0 3?0 UEFA Euro 2008 Qual. 13 16 November 2007 Vienna, Austria Austria 1?0 1?0 Friendly match 14 21 November 2007 Wembley, England Croatia 2?2 2?3 UEFA Euro 2008 Qual. 15 1 April 2009 Wembley, England Ukraine 1?0 2?1 World Cup 2010 Qual. 16 10 June 2009 Wembley, England Andorra 6?0 6?0 World Cup 2010 Qual. 17 14 October 2009 Wembley, England Belarus 1?0 3?0 World Cup 2010 Qual. 18 14 October 2009 Wembley, England Belarus 3?0 3?0 World Cup 2010 Qual. 19 3 March 2010 Wembley, England Egypt 1?1 3?1 Friendly match 20 3 March 2010 Wembley, England Egypt 3?1 3?1 Friendly match 21 24 May 2010 Wembley, England Mexico 2?0 3-1 Friendly Match Mexico, Egypt, ukraine, Croatia, austria, Greece and Uraguay whilst not in the top international sides are all the type of side you face in 90% of your games. When used properly ie not humping the ball to his head crouch is a pretty good centre forward and certainly one of the best available to England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didledee Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) Last night was far from impressive, but it was far from our best team, the 1st half England didn't play well, the 2nd half things improved, Johnson scored a belting goal and has the half developed, Rooney and Gerrard starting linking up really well and Mexico should have been reduced to 9 men if it wasn't a friendly. We will never pass the ball around like Spain, players like Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Xabi Alonso etc are all ball players and their system suits their passing game so well. But I think we have every chance to have success, I'm not going to go off the performance last night. I think certain players played well, some didn't. Walcott I thought tried really hard, but his final ball when he tried to pass forward or into the box wasn't that good, but he still got at the left back and played it simple and accurate when he didn't go on a run.When Lennon came on he went on a great run ans showed terrific speed only for the Mexican to bring him down. I think Rooney wasn't at his best, but he still provided a lot of good moments, I'm just glad he didn't get injured. King didn't play that well, scored a nice header, but defencively he got turned once and Dos Santos beat him easily before Vela shot was well saved from Green, Crouch didn't do much but scored a very sloppy goal but still a goal,for a big man he's got a good brain and links up well, Milner's better than what he showed but that's not his strongest position, Gerrard came into the game, Baines is rubbish, A.Cole return from injury is a massive boost. He has showed he can cope with wingers like C.Ronaldo in the past. Lampard and Gerrard are both going to start every game and undroppable, so Capello rather sticks Gerrard out wide and plays someone instead of Barry if he's injured, or he goes with Lampard and Gerrard in the middle and play someone like J.Cole on the left, who made that side his own before he got injured. Gerrard his better in the middle playing off Rooney, to many times Gerrard will want to come inside and get involved, Baines last night had no one infront of him at times, I think we should go with Lampard and Gerrard and play with 2 wingers. Edited May 25, 2010 by DidledeeBwfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gudnisson Posted May 25, 2010 Author Share Posted May 25, 2010 We will never pass the ball around like Spain, players like Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Xabi Alonso etc are all ball players and their system suits their passing game so well. So how do you think we could beat such a team? I cannot see it unless Spain have a real off day! They will dominate possession and we will continually give it them back. The end result will be a pasting. If we successfully impose our game it could be a good contest but I think this would be unlikely. Our style is too reliant on pace and is workmanlike and is difficult to sustain over 90 minutes. Most World Cup games in the latter stages will be about passing, possession, skilful movement around the box and accurate shooting. For that reason the tournament winner can only realistically come from Brazil, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Germany or Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didledee Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) Well I think the only way Spain will not win the World Cup is if they have an off day, like last years confederations cup when they came up against USA being a rare example. I think we have loads of quality, and Rooney can win us a game on his own, I don't think we have ever gone into a big match in the World Cup or Euro's and disgraced ourselves, penalties and luck like Ronaldinho's freekick back in 2002 have gone against us,also Rooney's injury's, or things like Sol Campbell's disallowed goals against Argentina and Portugal. This is from my time alive and what I can remember. We go in 3rd favourites, sometimes the best teams don't win, back in euro 2004, England played some fantastic stuff, who would have thought Greece would win? back in 2006 France we're very average in the group stages and somehow got to the final against Italy. Foreign players and teams are better technically and look more attractive, but I think with the quality we have we can beat anyteam, but then teams like Spain and Brazil have better players and will think the same, so we just have to play our best game and find a team with enough balance to play the big boys, I know under Capello we have already lost to Spain and Brazil, so hopefully we have kept our wins for the World Cup. Edited May 25, 2010 by DidledeeBwfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underpants Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 One thing I know about watching England over past World Cups is that no matter how good or shite we think we are, no matter how inept we seem technically compared to other teams, no matter how inflexible and predictable we seem, no matter who's in form or out of form and no matter who plays out of position we are always a very difficult to beat. What we do need to win a WC is a lucky manager not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjayoghani Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 So how do you think we could beat such a team? I cannot see it unless Spain have a real off day! They will dominate possession and we will continually give it them back. The end result will be a pasting. If we successfully impose our game it could be a good contest but I think this would be unlikely. Our style is too reliant on pace and is workmanlike and is difficult to sustain over 90 minutes. Most World Cup games in the latter stages will be about passing, possession, skilful movement around the box and accurate shooting. For that reason the tournament winner can only realistically come from Brazil, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Germany or Holland. There was a game three days ago where a team dominated possession, couldnt score against a great defence, and were twice caught on the counter attack. Admittedly, if we do beat Spain cant see us scoring goals like that. Classic England example is Argentina 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted May 25, 2010 Members Share Posted May 25, 2010 One thing I know about watching England over past World Cups is that no matter how good or shite we think we are, no matter how inept we seem technically compared to other teams, no matter how inflexible and predictable we seem, no matter who's in form or out of form and no matter who plays out of position we are always a very difficult to beat. What we do need to win a WC is a lucky manager not a good one. Compared to the top coaches above, that was put very succinctly. I have arrived at the conclusion that we may get past our usual Quarter Final exit this time for two reasons:- 1) Capello is, IMO, the best coach we have had since Bobby Robson and Sir Alf. 2) We are in the weaker side of the draw. No tactical or formation analyses were necessary in arriving at this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gudnisson Posted May 26, 2010 Author Share Posted May 26, 2010 There was a game three days ago where a team dominated possession, couldnt score against a great defence, and were twice caught on the counter attack. Admittedly, if we do beat Spain cant see us scoring goals like that. Classic England example is Argentina 2002. You are right to say a team can dominate possession and lose, it happens all the time. However, your defence has to be solid to make it work all the time and Englands is anything but. I think luck and bad finishing were the reasons we got away with it against Mexico. It was only one game though and as Diddledee said we rarely disgrace ourselves in major finals. I just don't see us winning, hope I'm wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjayoghani Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 You are right to say a team can dominate possession and lose, it happens all the time. However, your defence has to be solid to make it work all the time and Englands is anything but. I think luck and bad finishing were the reasons we got away with it against Mexico. It was only one game though and as Diddledee said we rarely disgrace ourselves in major finals. I just don't see us winning, hope I'm wrong! Best team doesnt always win cup competitions! I agree about a team must have a good defence rather than a great attack. France being a classic example. Thing is about the Argentina result, we had Neville, Cole, Campbell and Ferdinand alll playing out of their skins plus Butt who was brilliant. I dont see the current back four anywhere near that. No wonder he's holding out for Barry and possibly Carragher. Just checked the Argentina game it was Danny Mills at right back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gudnisson Posted May 26, 2010 Author Share Posted May 26, 2010 Best team doesnt always win cup competitions! I agree about a team must have a good defence rather than a great attack. France being a classic example. Thing is about the Argentina result, we had Neville, Cole, Campbell and Ferdinand alll playing out of their skins plus Butt who was brilliant. I dont see the current back four anywhere near that. No wonder he's holding out for Barry and possibly Carragher. Just checked the Argentina game it was Danny Mills at right back! Full backs are the biggest concern for me. Cole and Johnson are great attacking but I don't rate either defensively at top international level. I would prefer the micah Richards of two seasons ago at right back but he has gone right off the boil this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burndens Bogs Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Full backs are the biggest concern for me. Cole and Johnson are great attacking but I don't rate either defensively at top international level. I would prefer the micah Richards of two seasons ago at right back but he has gone right off the boil this season. Ah,but while they're attacking - maybe we wouldn't have to worry about their defensive frailties so much. Have a read of this article - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/mar/25/the-question-full-backs-football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idiot Wind Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Full backs are the biggest concern for me. Cole and Johnson are great attacking but I don't rate either defensively at top international level. I would prefer the micah Richards of two seasons ago at right back but he has gone right off the boil this season. Take your point about Johnson's defensive frailities but Cole? I think this side of his game is really underrated - I remember him containing Rinaldo quite comfortably at international level on a couple of occasions. Not many defenders can say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frandsen08 Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Full backs are the biggest concern for me. Cole and Johnson are great attacking but I don't rate either defensively at top international level. I would prefer the micah Richards of two seasons ago at right back but he has gone right off the boil this season. maybe johnson defensively, there isnt a left back in the world i'd prefer over ashley cole, definsively and attacking wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo gambaro Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Full backs are the biggest concern for me. Cole and Johnson are great attacking but I don't rate either defensively at top international level. It's become a bit of an obsession, this. Full backs don't do that much defending, they're really just extra midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted May 28, 2010 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2010 and isn't there a stat that full backs get more touches than any other player so, maybe being able to kick it is a big plus point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts