Corners

[Garrp]

You missed my point the physchological pressure mounting can lead to a mistake somewhere else in the game not necccesarily just at corners.

 

does it bollocks, you're just scraping the barrel trying to argue against stats with opinion and emotion.

 

you average around 6 corners a game each in an even game

 

this is about as competitive a league as you can get so more even games

 

there is roughly an even amount of corners

 

there are exceptions like on Tuesday when we won the corner count 14:1

 

we got beat 2-1

[Traf]

A one on one situation is deemed very dangerous due to the open spaces giving the attacker more options.

 

10 v 10 on a corner leaves no space.

[Casino]

but we should still leave 8 up

 

when did you see team that left 8 up concede

[Zico]

does it bollocks, you're just scraping the barrel trying to argue against stats with opinion and emotion.

 

you average around 6 corners a game each in an even game

 

this is about as competitive a league as you can get so more even games

 

there is roughly an even amount of corners

 

there are exceptions like on Tuesday when we won the corner count 14:1

 

we got beat 2-1

 

you can see where mounts is coming from

 

you can compile many stats as you want but there's always going to be the subjective, human element, always

 

you can argue that all stats mean fuck all, you can have loads of different stats all leading to the same scoreline, which is why you often hear the only one that matters is the result

 

but there are games where undoubtedly wave after wave of attacks, some of which will be saved and lead to corners will have that "that goal was coming" element, because a team crumbled under pressure in the last minute, to lose 1-0 or something

 

you can win games without having a shot on target as well

 

if you're classing a goal from a corner as a header or a shot hit first time direct from a cross then aye, not so often, but does it include a cross whipped in, then a flick on, or bit of pinball, half arsed clearance or whatever before it's scored?  

[Mounts Kipper]

you can see where mounts is coming from

 

you can compile many stats as you want but there's always going to be the subjective, human element, always

 

you can argue that all stats mean fuck all, you can have loads of different stats all leading to the same scoreline, which is why you often hear the only one that matters is the result

 

but there are games where undoubtedly wave after wave of attacks, some of which will be saved and lead to corners will have that "that goal was coming" element, because a team crumbled under pressure in the last minute, to lose 1-0 or something

 

you can win games without having a shot on target as well

 

if you're classing a goal from a corner as a header or a shot hit first time direct from a cross then aye, not so often, but does it include a cross whipped in, then a flick on, or bit of pinball, half arsed clearance or whatever before it's scored?  

Think garps a statto not sure hes ever played football but the mental side of it at every level plays a big part and I am basing my previous comments on my football playing experience obvoiusly not at a high level put played a lot of competitve football in my time.

[jules_darby]

you can see where mounts is coming from

 

you can compile many stats as you want but there's always going to be the subjective, human element, always

 

you can argue that all stats mean fuck all, you can have loads of different stats all leading to the same scoreline, which is why you often hear the only one that matters is the result

 

but there are games where undoubtedly wave after wave of attacks, some of which will be saved and lead to corners will have that "that goal was coming" element, because a team crumbled under pressure in the last minute, to lose 1-0 or something

 

you can win games without having a shot on target as well

 

if you're classing a goal from a corner as a header or a shot hit first time direct from a cross then aye, not so often, but does it include a cross whipped in, then a flick on, or bit of pinball, half arsed clearance or whatever before it's scored?  

This

[Garrp]

you can see where mounts is coming from

 

you can compile many stats as you want but there's always going to be the subjective, human element, always

 

you can argue that all stats mean fuck all, you can have loads of different stats all leading to the same scoreline, which is why you often hear the only one that matters is the result

 

but there are games where undoubtedly wave after wave of attacks, some of which will be saved and lead to corners will have that "that goal was coming" element, because a team crumbled under pressure in the last minute, to lose 1-0 or something

 

you can win games without having a shot on target as well

 

if you're classing a goal from a corner as a header or a shot hit first time direct from a cross then aye, not so often, but does it include a cross whipped in, then a flick on, or bit of pinball, half arsed clearance or whatever before it's scored?  

 

there's a subjective, human element to me saying the sky is red and grass is blue.

 

the whole point of stats is to eliminate the human bias and what we think we see with the naked eye.

 

it's ok having a hunch and saying corners are really good, i remember that header allardyce scored from 50 yards away, there are thousands upon thousands of games worth of data that tell us how often corners are scored.

[Garrp]

Think garps a statto not sure hes ever played football but the mental side of it at every level plays a big part and I am basing my previous comments on my football playing experience obvoiusly not at a high level put played a lot of competitve football in my time.

 

jesus christ

 

you win

[Ani]

Think garps a statto not sure hes ever played football but the mental side of it at every level plays a big part and I am basing my previous comments on my football playing experience obvoiusly not at a high level put played a lot of competitve football in my time.

But if Garp is basing his on stats and given he makes his living by understanding trends in football by setting odds in play does that not mean you give his opinion a bit of credit ?

 

The emotional thought is that corners have to be good but from what Garp is saying it is not a statistically relevant factor in predicting a goal.

 

If he is right on that basis what are you disagreeing about. Points based on lower level football are not relevant as you get a lot more mismatches so a good team is more likely to score from a corner when they are playing a shit team.

 

He might be a statto so why disagree with his stats ?

[Zico]

there's a subjective, human element to me saying the sky is red and grass is blue.

 

the whole point of stats is to eliminate the human bias and what we think we see with the naked eye.

 

it's ok having a hunch and saying corners are really good, i remember that header allardyce scored from 50 yards away, there are thousands upon thousands of games worth of data that tell us how often corners are scored.

 

that's not subjective, it's just incorrect

 

but as said, to clear things up, are you talking about a corner as a direct assist to a goal? then aye, they don't yield too many goals

 

but they can be indicative of a pattern of play, not a result, but how a game has gone, that's all

 

if you say corners are worthless, what about shots from outside the box and free kicks?  fat sam used to ban/not like shots from outside the box, but some went in and others led to mistakes, spillages etc that led to goals

 

they may not go directly in, but they give an opportunity to get the ball into a dangerous area and then see what happens next - they allow you to put the opposition under pressure, which can lead to goals - it's not just a numbers game

 

from you say though, lennon has watched moneyball

[exiledwhite2]

I still somehow drag myself onto the pitch to play, occasionally as a centre half, and I bloody hate defending corners

 

True, not many end up in the net, but I do think it adds up to pressure, which ends up with the defence cracking, at some point...

[Garrp]

that's not subjective, it's just incorrect

 

but as said, to clear things up, are you talking about a corner as a direct assist to a goal? then aye, they don't yield too many goals

 

but they can be indicative of a pattern of play, not a result, but how a game has gone, that's all

 

if you say corners are worthless, what about shots from outside the box and free kicks?  fat sam used to ban/not like shots from outside the box, but some went in and others led to mistakes, spillages etc that led to goals

 

they may not go directly in, but they give an opportunity to get the ball into a dangerous area and then see what happens next - they allow you to put the opposition under pressure, which can lead to goals - it's not just a numbers game

 

from you say though, lennon has watched moneyball

 

I don't want to do one of them multi quotes as it looks gay

 

i have never argued that 'they can be indicative of a pattern of play, not a result, but how a game has gone, that's all' - so I don't know why you are changing the discussion to that?

 

i have said how often goals are scored from corners and that people should stop whinging when our players have been clearly told to go and see if the short ball is the better option. I said this because lee and mavies were going short against charlton and the two or three times we did play it the usual moaners were whinging "get it in the fucking mixer, "why are we going short, we never score from them".

[tylswhite]

I still somehow drag myself onto the pitch to play, occasionally as a centre half, and I bloody hate defending corners

 

True, not many end up in the net, but I do think it adds up to pressure, which ends up with the defence cracking, at some point...

Peoples own experiences will differ vastly from professional football though. Its ok saying such a thing happens in amateur matches but its a different world from the pro's.

 

I suspect defending corners for pro footballers is practiced quite often or it should be.

Edited October 23, 2014 by tylswhite

[Garrp]

 

if you say corners are worthless, what about shots from outside the box and free kicks?  fat sam used to ban/not like shots from outside the box, but some went in and others led to mistakes, spillages etc that led to goals

 

they may not go directly in, but they give an opportunity to get the ball into a dangerous area and then see what happens next - they allow you to put the opposition under pressure, which can lead to goals - it's not just a numbers game

 

from you say though, lennon has watched moneyball

 

I can tell you all the stats for each different shooting zones but i don't get what your point is.

 

I think you're saying that just because something is a low percentage chance that you shouldn't stop doing it because it can lead to goals in other ways.

[Zico]

I don't want to do one of them multi quotes as it looks gay

 

i have never argued that 'they can be indicative of a pattern of play, not a result, but how a game has gone, that's all' - so I don't know why you are changing the discussion to that?

 

i have said how often goals are scored from corners and that people should stop whinging when our players have been clearly told to go and see if the short ball is the better option. I said this because lee and mavies were going short against charlton and the two or three times we did play it the usual moaners were whinging "get it in the fucking mixer, "why are we going short, we never score from them".

 

 

fair enough, that's the way the thread went, but you did say "corners are worthless"

 

presumably then as a direct assist, not as a way to get the ball in right part of the pitch and get some pressure no defence / goalkeeper

 

people will moan matter what

 

they'll shout "shooooot" when a player has a ball somewhere outside the box

 

then moan when the next 10 shots go over

 

you know that now there's going to be a goal DIRECTLY from the first corner of the game on Saturday now

[Zico]

I can tell you all the stats for each different shooting zones but i don't get what your point is.

 

I think you're saying that just because something is a low percentage chance that you shouldn't stop doing it because it can lead to goals in other ways.

 

i am

[Garrp]

i am

 

ok, i understand.

 

the point is you don't stop playing the low percentages but why would you not play a better percentage option when it is on?

 

you play the lower percentage option when it is your best percentage chance surely?

[Zico]

and for the record, I've got no issue if a corner is taken short or long, just how they are excuted

 

I just don't like the ones where possession is spunked by going short, or they don't beat the first man when long

 

I won't boo or moan about a corner

[Zico]

ok, i understand.

 

the point is you don't stop playing the low percentages but why would you not play a better percentage option when it is on?

 

you play the lower percentage option when it is your best percentage chance surely?

 

aye

 

so my next question, as am genuinely interested, is what higher percentage option comes from going short?  is it a chance to put a "cross" in, because more goals come from crosses or something?

 

dunno

 

it's def going all moneyball this

[DazBob]

I scored a header direct from a corner a few weeks ago ... into nets that were 5-a-side size.

 

Put that into your pipes and smoke it.

[Traf]

I scored a header direct from a corner a few weeks ago ... into nets that were 5-a-side size.

 

Put that into your pipes and smoke it.

 

own goals don't count

[Ani]

ok, i understand.

 

the point is you don't stop playing the low percentages but why would you not play a better percentage option when it is on?

 

you play the lower percentage option when it is your best percentage chance surely?

Right what per cent of normal corners lead to goals ?

 

 

 

What per cent of short corners lead to goals ?

 

And where is the per cent key on an iPad ?

[Mounts Kipper]

own goals don't count

Ha ha very funny. ????

[Tombwfc]

I don't disagree with the idea that there's nothing wrong with playing it short, but I don't think corners are totally worthless either.

 

Between 2011-13 in the Premier League, roughly 1 in 60 corners were swung in, landed on somebody's head/foot, and put into the net. If you take into account what Opta describes as "corner situations" (so goals from flick-ons, goalmouth scrambles etc.), it's 1 in 34.

 

Your average Premier League game last season saw the two teams combine to attempt 438.5 passes and score 2.67 goals. 1 goal for every 164 passes attempted.

 

Goals are rare. Relative to everything else that happens in a game (goal kicks, throw-ins, five yard passes in midfield etc), why not get a little bit excited when your team gets a corner. It's a break in play at a point when your side are on the attack, and just before they put all their men in the box and lump the ball in. Not a bad time to encourage them by clapping and giving it a few "fucking come on"s. At the very least your team has about a 20% chance of getting a shot away.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Tombwfc

[Man_Walking_Dog]

Right what per cent of normal corners lead to goals ?

 

 

 

What per cent of short corners lead to goals ?

 

And where is the per cent key on an iPad ?

 

what actually is a short corner ? not being funny but is it playing it to someone else and then whipping it over for a goal? or is it playing it to someone else then pissing about with it and then getting a goal ? short corners could involve anything from 1 pass to 4 or 5 passes. this whole thing is a stat minefield.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Man_Walking_Dog