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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Todays Games


superjohnmcginlay

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2 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

There is also a question of frame rate as well I read - in that calling out decisions by those sort of margins is unfair because its not entitely accurate from when the ball is actually played you simply wouldn't be 100% be able to make this call.

Those making these decisions have been put in an impossible position and there has to be, as has been said reviews to bring VAR to heel by not saying its about looking at this sort of marginal call.

Think how many goals would have be written off, surely one of a good forward's great skills is to play on that line when required. Take that away and you're getting a totally different, and not as exciting, game.

I have been banging about the starting point not being 100% accurate so this examining the end point to the smallest fraction of millimetre is actually guessing dressed up as science.

The solution seems pretty simple by adopting the same approach as cricket. There is an on field call made and this only over ruled if the player is more than a given margin on or off.  If not we stick with on field call. In cricket where the slower game means that there is if anything more time for precise calls and the wickets are a set point calls that are 'in line' in terms of impact or pitching are accepted as umpires call. 
 

As much as I disliked the outcome yesterday by current rules and interpretation it was correct. 
 

BTW since the introduction of VAR has anyone been classed as level ? 

Edited by Ani
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1 minute ago, mickbrown said:

Deffo. 

Ball over the line is a good one to automate  

Everything else? Leave it to the ref. Course we’ll get errors, but at the moment all the joy is getting sucked out of the game. 

Mad that in Spain they do not use ball line technology. Barca had a claim in last night El Classico , we even have that in League 1 do nt we ? 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Ani said:

Mad that in Spain they do not use ball line technology. Barca had a claim in last night El Classico , we even have that in League 1 do nt we ? 

No. Ball line technology is only used for the duration of the season in the Premier League and Championship. League 1 and 2 only use it in the play-offs.

Edited by Cheese
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Be interesting to hear what Sam thinks about it now.

He was one of the advocates of VAR many years ago, him being a great exponent of modern technology and stuff like that.

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VAR is, by the English interpretation, far, far too staggeringly detailed.

Is it toe/heel. Fingertip, Quiff etc., etc. When Lampard hit the back stanchion & it rebounded out ... yep. With a clear, but missed, offside ... OK, if you must. Handball or trip, again fine. Except it's not, is ut. We're seeing handball reinvented mid season now. Players diving, sometimes seen, sometimes not.

It really has to get paired back. The promise was 'clear & obvious'. It's far from that now & is ruining the game.

 

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1 hour ago, Ani said:

The solution seems pretty simple by adopting the same approach as cricket. There is an on field call made and this only over ruled if the player is more than a given margin on or off.  If not we stick with on field call. In cricket where the slower game means that there is if anything more time for precise calls and the wickets are a set point calls that are 'in line' in terms of impact or pitching are accepted as umpires call. 

The difficulty with offside calls is that, as far as I understand it, there's no on-field call

I think the idea is play continues and then VAR reviews as standard because if an offside flag is raised and play stops before a goal is scored and it turns out to be an incorrect call, the goal can't then be given

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Posted (edited)

On the subject of offsides - there was a moment in the second half on Saturday when Maghoma was clear through on goal, and he just stopped running and turned to look at the linesman instead, presumably expecting a flag, which never came. Fucking infuriating at the time. "Play to the fucking whistle you stupid twat!" was the general consensus around us. But there had been several occasions earlier when the linesman took fucking ages to flag, so I can see why the thought had entered his head.

Edited by Cheese
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23 minutes ago, Cheese said:

On the subject of offsides - there was a moment in the second half on Saturday when Maghoma was clear through on goal, and he just stopped running and turned to look at the linesman instead, presumably expecting a flag, which never came. Fucking infuriating at the time. "Play to the fucking whistle you stupid twat!" was the general consensus around us. But there had been several occasions earlier when the linesman took fucking ages to flag, so I can see why the thought had entered his head.

It would also prevent unnecessary challenges from defenders or keepers that could result in injury if they knew the flag/whistle had gone up straight away

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1 hour ago, Cheese said:

On the subject of offsides - there was a moment in the second half on Saturday when Maghoma was clear through on goal, and he just stopped running and turned to look at the linesman instead, presumably expecting a flag, which never came. Fucking infuriating at the time. "Play to the fucking whistle you stupid twat!" was the general consensus around us. But there had been several occasions earlier when the linesman took fucking ages to flag, so I can see why the thought had entered his head.

Not often you see a player so desperate to be flagged 😂 would have been clean through if he’d just carried on. Hopefully he learns from the experience. 

1 hour ago, DirtySanchez said:

It would also prevent unnecessary challenges from defenders or keepers that could result in injury if they knew the flag/whistle had gone up straight away

See Baxter

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3 hours ago, Cheese said:

No. Ball line technology is only used for the duration of the season in the Premier League and Championship. League 1 and 2 only use it in the play-offs.

On yeah we had the Santos goal at Port Vale last year that was not given, ( or it did not go in) 

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2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The difficulty with offside calls is that, as far as I understand it, there's no on-field call

I think the idea is play continues and then VAR reviews as standard because if an offside flag is raised and play stops before a goal is scored and it turns out to be an incorrect call, the goal can't then be given

No they just delay the flag, so if Lino thinks it is offside they do not flag till the phase completes. Then they stick flag up. Follow this but only over rule if clear. 

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17 hours ago, Cheese said:

Only just seen how close it was. What an absolute fucking joke. VAR is taking far more away from the game than it's giving, by a long way. A story that Coventry fans would have told their grandkids in 50 years time doesn't happen now. It's deleted from history because someone in a little booth nowhere near the pitch used a computer to determine someone's boot made them offside by an inch. If the football authorities think pixel-perfect decisions are what the fans really want, they might as well just get the managers of each team to have a game of FIFA.

Untitled.thumb.jpg.ebac175cc8f3f4fcf5d4e31060aaea56.jpg
 

7 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

I like it but then we'd be arguing about a heel at the back of the striker instead of a toenail at the front.

If the film is shot at 25 frames per second there is room for error re exactly when the ball left the passer's foot and the body shape of the receiver depends on the position he's moving from and to in order to receive the pass so whilst I think VAR is good for monitoring foul play, I think they should drop it for offside and leave it the ref and linesman to decide - as they do in 99.9% of games.

And if they insist on keeping it they need to improve the tech e.g. short of implants, they could fit the player's socks, shorts or shirts (or a stick on patch on their chest) with a single sensor and let it be decided on which sensor is ahead regardless of arms, legs and big toes - which would work the same as goal line tech and send a signal to the ref's watch - thereby eliminating the need for the video watchers in a different location and the delays.

Firstly, if we’re all about drawing lines on tv pictures, how about drawing them so the red line isn’t closer to the goal-line than the blue because to me, this proves the Coventry player’s big toe was onside.

Secondly, ought the time of impact, foot to ball, should be the measure, not the point the ball left the foot. I reckon 10 or so frames could be taken whilst the ball and foot are on contact.

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10 hours ago, Biggish Dave said:

If all the ball has to be over the line for a goal, why not all the player for offside

The common denominator is they try to find ways to not allow goals to stand, it makes them seem really important when they find an "offence" that the naked eye wouldn't spot.  

There aren't many benefits to staying in L1, but I can think of 2:  Going to games expecting to win most weeks, and no VAR for the foreseeable.

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31 minutes ago, W.cramp said:

This is a strange one.   Are they praying on a new manager bounce ?   

It seems very logical really, he's cocked up their promotion chances, they now have (potentially) a 4 game mini season, they could get anyone in and new manager bounce gives them a great chance.  No point potting him at end of season when its too late.

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7 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Hand doesn't count, as it's not a part of the body with which you can play the ball.

As for this system, it wasn't long ago that football folk and fans at large wanted technology to assist where errors were happening. 

Is this now a big change of heart?

 

I’ve thought about this and again it’s rubbish rule… without the hand/arms you can’t run… they also say you can’t score with your hand and that’s fair enough but the defender ain’t trying to score he’s an unfair advantage by being allowed part of his body in front of the attacker. 

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41 minutes ago, W.cramp said:

This is a strange one.   Are they praying on a new manager bounce ?   

Don’t think he’s well liked. Wonder if they’ll get Duff back.

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3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’ve thought about this and again it’s rubbish rule… without the hand/arms you can’t run… they also say you can’t score with your hand and that’s fair enough but the defender ain’t trying to score he’s an unfair advantage by being allowed part of his body in front of the attacker. 

Don't get it.

The attacker can have his arm further forward than the defender.

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19 minutes ago, tomski said:

Don’t think he’s well liked. Wonder if they’ll get Duff back.

They were singing Neil Collins your football is shit on Sat apparently with the Blackpool lot joining in.

My mate said it could've been 6-0 and Blackpool were scintillating.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

They were singing Neil Collins your football is shit on Sat apparently with the Blackpool lot joining in.

My mate said it could've been 6-0 and Blackpool were scintillating.

 

 

They are a strange team.

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