5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

He had absolutely nowt to lose by the end of last year. Think he probably took that one to heart and so spent the vast majority of the immediate aftermath of the play off final (including following days in fannies / Ibiza) without a top on. The lad’s in good nick and from what we hear, he’s dying to be a success here - just need to see it on the pitch now. If he can find it and have a good season in the Champ then he’s got the potential (character wise) to turn himself into a bit of a cult hero. I really hope he can but based on everything I’ve seen to date I just don’t think he’s got the quality to make the step up (genuinely hope I’m wrong before people shoot me down).

I also wonder if he has the mentality to make the step up.

34 minutes ago, Ani said:

Did you mean players signing autographs ?

I’m guessing so. Got my hopes up though for a striker!

Mind you from the socials looks a great turnout today……

3 hours ago, Ani said:

My take on McAtee v Randall is pretty simple.

Neither will be first choice starters.

If we need to get a goal late in a game I would rather McAtee came on rather than Randall. If we were looking to bolster the defence I would not want either coming on.

If we can bring better in no issue if both leave. I would hate to think we are looking at players who are not better than Randall. McAtee continues to frustrate was always a total nuisance when played against him, looks healthier again at start of the season, I am convinced there is a player in there but rapidly losing faith.

I agree neither will be first choice starters, but neither will Christie and 1 or 2 of Simons, Watson and EE. All 4 of those plus McAtee will be in most matchday squads and probably get minutes more often than not. Randall won't get one minute in the league, he has the same prospects here as Taylor and Warren. Re bolstering the defence, McAtee is a liability defensively agreed, but he is useful when we're ahead as shown at Bradford and Wembley, where he takes the pressure off the defence by maintaining attacks (and having a big hand in goals that killed off the opposition in both games).

FWIW I felt sorry for Randall on Saturday, we used 20 outfield players and he was the only one that didn't get a minute. Not sure if it was intentional by SS to send a message but it can't have been a boost to his confidence.

14 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I agree neither will be first choice starters, but neither will Christie and 1 or 2 of Simons, Watson and EE. All 4 of those plus McAtee will be in most matchday squads and probably get minutes more often than not. Randall won't get one minute in the league, he has the same prospects here as Taylor and Warren. Re bolstering the defence, McAtee is a liability defensively agreed, but he is useful when we're ahead as shown at Bradford and Wembley, where he takes the pressure off the defence by maintaining attacks (and having a big hand in goals that killed off the opposition in both games).

FWIW I felt sorry for Randall on Saturday, we used 20 outfield players and he was the only one that didn't get a minute. Not sure if it was intentional by SS to send a message but it can't have been a boost to his confidence.

Only really one outcome when that happens. It’s not even a message, it’s too obvious to be - I’d imagine Randall knows the score and he won’t be here come the end of the window.

17 minutes ago, Bertie said:

I’m guessing so. Got my hopes up though for a striker!

Mind you from the socials looks a great turnout today……

Right at the front but queued from 12.

You're queuing regardless so may as well be at the front.

Few interesting interactions.

Ben Davies is an absolute gent.

Gale looked like he couldn't be arsed and was sat on the end not speaking.

Mcatee has deffo lost some weight

Broome is proper enthusiastic

Randall looked so non plussed

Dong looked so confused to what was going on. People were trying to speak French to him which was funny.

Think my daughters got a little crush on Temple.

2 hours ago, DirtySanchez said:

Goals and assists aren't the only way of measuring a player's input you know

They might be the stats that FIFA soccer or Sky telly you but that doesn't take in the wider picture of what a player can do

Let's say McAtee makes a run which drags a defender in his direction leaving it open for Sheehan to pass to Dalby who scores

By your metric the latter two get the credit but no mention of McAtee

I'm not saying keep him but to use your stats to get rid is not looking at the bigger picture

Correct. Too much emphasis on stats. A great pass resulting in Dalby missing from 5 yards (it happened twice last season) isn't an assist. Gale's fluffed cross or shot that ended up with Simons scoring at Bradford is an assist. Whoever passed to Cissoko from 5 yards when he scored the worldy v Huddersfield got an assist.

Relying on stats is something to use when not watching the games, rather than noticing how some players make good runs, retain possession, win tackles or headers (Dalby) and set up the assist and not just the goal.

FWIW McAtee started 7 games last season and got sent off in the 1st half of one of them.

2 hours ago, DirtySanchez said:

Goals and assists aren't the only way of measuring a player's input you know

They might be the stats that FIFA soccer or Sky telly you but that doesn't take in the wider picture of what a player can do

Let's say McAtee makes a run which drags a defender in his direction leaving it open for Sheehan to pass to Dalby who scores

By your metric the latter two get the credit but no mention of McAtee

I'm not saying keep him but to use your stats to get rid is not looking at the bigger picture

There's a world between goal and assist stats meaning everything, and them meaning nothing. Mentioning Sky or FIFA as though only true football folk could appreciate John McAtee's ability is nonsense.

There are limits to everything. If you're an attacker and your direct goal contributions are as piss poor as McAtee's have been, it probably says something about his level. He seems a good lad, but he's 27-years-old and the sum total of his career is two ten goal seasons in the third tier. He'd be a decent option off the bench for Barnsley next year, not us.

8 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

FWIW McAtee started 7 games last season and got sent off in the 1st half of one of them.

Neither of those things are ringing endorsements of his ability.

3 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

There's a world between goal and assist stats meaning everything, and them meaning nothing. Mentioning Sky or FIFA as though only true football folk could appreciate John McAtee's ability is nonsense.

There are limits to everything. If you're an attacker and your direct goal contributions are as piss poor as McAtee's have been, it probably says something about his level. He seems a good lad, but he's 27-years-old and the sum total of his career is two ten goal seasons in the third tier. He'd be a decent option off the bench for Barnsley next year, not us.

You used those stats to judge him

I'm saying there's better ways to judge a player, not exclusive to McAtee, and a better argument to make than just assists and goals

Which you used to judge him

2 hours ago, frank_spencer said:

Early last season talk on here was he was a cut above the rest and was destined for big things.

To go from that to one to move on is a heck of a difference.

Only thing I can see is one of him and Erahon becoming the new Aaron Morley and being the odd man out. Not a bad player but down the pecking order and want game time.

Simons started three games from mid-January to the end of the season. I don't think we'll get rid because of EE's fitness issues but I'm sure we'd listen to offers if there were any.

McAtee featured, and got an assist, in the game that I'll remember as long as I live. For that reason, I'll never want anything but the best for him and be chuffed if he stayed and stepped up to the championship challenge.

6 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

You used those stats to judge him

I'm saying there's better ways to judge a player, not exclusive to McAtee, and a better argument to make than just assists and goals

Which you used to judge him

Think I'd agree if he had some different faucets to his game that stats didn't show.

No sure he has though.

Lads got tons of energy and work rate but not sure that's going to be enough at this level.

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Think I'd agree if he had some different faucets to his game that stats didn't show.

No sure he has though.

Lads got tons of energy and work rate but not sure that's going to be enough at this level.

I agree

But there seems to be a judgement purely based on goals and assists of any player these days as they are simple figures to pick out

3 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

You used those stats to judge him

I'm saying there's better ways to judge a player, not exclusive to McAtee, and a better argument to make than just assists and goals

Which you used to judge him

Christ, if that's the angle you're coming from this is going to get incredibly pedantic and boring.

Nowhere did I say the only thing I'd use to judge McAtee is his goals and assist tally. I've said many things about McAtee over the time he's been here, and to repeat them all every time he's mentioned seems redundant. But it's absolutely one of the things you can judge him on.

Regardless, the reason G/A stats are used frequently isn't because of Sky or FIFA, it's because they are simple and reasonably indicative. Every stats has its limitations, but it's not a coincidence that the best attackers also have the best G/A numbers. If you put any Championship quality number 10 in our squad I'd expect them to outperform McAtee in many areas, but G/A would definitely be one of them.

So yeah, maybe McAtee played a perfect pass to someone who fluffed it and he should have three assists rather than two. The broader point is that he's played 250+ games in his career and if he was going to make an impact at a higher level he'd have shown more than clinging onto a place on our bench in L1.

33 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Think I'd agree if he had some different faucets to his game that stats didn't show.

No sure he has though.

Lads got tons of energy and work rate but not sure that's going to be enough at this level.

He's tapped, and runs hot and cold for me.

39 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

Neither of those things are ringing endorsements of his ability.

I didn't say they were, I was just putting the "36 appearances" in some context.

He didn't start many games because he either wasn't one of our better strikers/no.10's (Burstow, Dalby, Kenny and RR were variously in his way for justifiable reasons, plus Forss for a while and even Dempsey), on top of injuries and suspension, so he didn't get a run of games. Three of the 6 have left, so he's only behind Dalby and RR now, rightly or wrongly. We can't afford to just keep letting players go knowing how hard it is to replace them, he won't be the only player who struggled for L1 starts that will be in our championship squad (Gale, Conway, Toal, Simons aren't going anywhere either).

As standards continue to improve through the levels of football and the step ups become more challenging, more players end up having an identifiable ceiling. There are some honourable exceptions of course (GT doing well in Champ for example).

Step up from L1 to Champ has proved tougher in recent years, unless you're wadded like Ipswich were, so we'll soon find out how many of ours' ceiling is L1. Unfortunately, I fear that, from the current body of players we have, it'll be quite a few. McAtee and Randall will be two but they'll be far from alone.

10 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I didn't say they were, I was just putting the "36 appearances" in some context.

He didn't start many games because he either wasn't one of our better strikers/no.10's (Burstow, Dalby, Kenny and RR were variously in his way for justifiable reasons, plus Forss for a while and even Dempsey), on top of injuries and suspension, so he didn't get a run of games. Three of the 6 have left, so he's only behind Dalby and RR now, rightly or wrongly. We can't afford to just keep letting players go knowing how hard it is to replace them, he won't be the only player who struggled for L1 starts that will be in our championship squad (Gale, Conway, Toal, Simons aren't going anywhere either).

He was also behind Randall for some unknown reason for a lot of the first half of the season. Should have had another 5-10 starts really while Randall was so ineffective

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Did you mean players signing autographs ?

Of course I did

48 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I didn't say they were, I was just putting the "36 appearances" in some context.

He didn't start many games because he either wasn't one of our better strikers/no.10's (Burstow, Dalby, Kenny and RR were variously in his way for justifiable reasons, plus Forss for a while and even Dempsey), on top of injuries and suspension, so he didn't get a run of games. Three of the 6 have left, so he's only behind Dalby and RR now, rightly or wrongly. We can't afford to just keep letting players go knowing how hard it is to replace them, he won't be the only player who struggled for L1 starts that will be in our championship squad (Gale, Conway, Toal, Simons aren't going anywhere either).

The bit I questioned was that he was actually capable of making an impact or being a good option off the bench if we're chasing games in the Championship. I don't doubt he could still make the squad by default if we don't sign enough players - Christie might too - but as you say SS has favoured half a dozen players over him and half of them wouldn't be good enough for the Championship either.

Really I expect three if not four of the five SS still wants will be attackers and he'll go back down the pecking order and possibly out on loan.

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

Christ, if that's the angle you're coming from this is going to get incredibly pedantic and boring.

Nowhere did I say the only thing I'd use to judge McAtee is his goals and assist tally. I've said many things about McAtee over the time he's been here, and to repeat them all every time he's mentioned seems redundant. But it's absolutely one of the things you can judge him on.

Regardless, the reason G/A stats are used frequently isn't because of Sky or FIFA, it's because they are simple and reasonably indicative. Every stats has its limitations, but it's not a coincidence that the best attackers also have the best G/A numbers. If you put any Championship quality number 10 in our squad I'd expect them to outperform McAtee in many areas, but G/A would definitely be one of them.

So yeah, maybe McAtee played a perfect pass to someone who fluffed it and he should have three assists rather than two. The broader point is that he's played 250+ games in his career and if he was going to make an impact at a higher level he'd have shown more than clinging onto a place on our bench in L1.

McAtee has two goals and two assists in his last 36 League One appearances.

Not sure how we've got from 'might be the least worst of the number 10s Evatt left us with' to 'will affect games coming off the bench in the Championship

Your words, not mine

You chose no other stats or attributes to define him

Based on that you've written him off based on stats

11 hours ago, masi 51 said:

The right back spot you have three names yet we only need max two in each position.

SS post match interview he says Larrazabel has been brought in for the position despite only playing as a winger and rwb. We know Stephenson was more a Harkin signing. Going to watch this very carefully the next few games.

Well he certainly doesn't look to be doing defensive drills in his first training session...

2 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Well he certainly doesn't look to be doing defensive drills in his first training session...

Dont shoot the messenger....It was S/S post match interview. He has played as a winger or rwb all his career. Looks like he was making a statement

8 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Don't shoot the messenger....It was S/S post match interview. He has played as a winger or rwb all his career. Looks like he was making a statement

Not aiming to shoot anyone really.

Read the thread earlier and thought, Christ people go on about the length of my posts but they are nothing compared to the pages of anx people concern themselves over in respect of the least little thing - is he a full back, wing back, winger, Harkin said this, Schumacher said that, is there trouble in camp, no they are strong characters, both can give a bit, etc, etc, etc.

I would have left it there except the video popped on the feed I was looking at and thought I would stick it up for all to see.

I'm not sure who you think is making a statement, the player or the manager but to me it just is the player going through routine drills that have been prepared for him to do today.