(That long since we've had any, couldn't find the thread)

Alan Nixon: "Top Liverpool starlet Cameron Branagan will Ben allowed out on loan in Jan.

Bolton lead the race for the 20 year old midfielder"

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by Ratwhite

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Hierro wouldn't make it in to my to 40 players for what he actually did at Bolton.

Truth be told he was fucking shite.

Blimey.  He was absolute class, made difficult passes look easy and was always in control, never rushed.  A privilege to watch him for a few months at the end of his career.

12 hours ago, gonzo said:

Not during his time here he wasn't.

Nicky Hunt was an established Premier League full back. Bradley was on loan in the 3 division.

 

Bradley was a better player regardless of the level he was playing at. He didn't suddenly level up dramatically between playing for us against Barnsley in May and starting for Liverpool in December. He was that good all along, levels above the division he happened to be playing in.

Nicky Hunt was a low-end Championship player who got by for four seasons in Big Sam's system. Then when Sam left he tumbled down the leagues. If you stuck him at his best in our team now he wouldn't stand out.

The Antonee Robinson that played for us when we were shit in the second tier was a better left back than Henrik Pedersen too.

Edited May 17, 20251 yr by Tombwfc

45 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Bradley was a better player regardless of the level he was playing at. He didn't suddenly level up dramatically between playing for us against Barnsley in May and starting for Liverpool in December. He was that good all along, levels above the division he happened to be playing in.

Nicky Hunt was a low-end Championship player who got by for four seasons in Big Sam's system. Then when Sam left he tumbled down the leagues. If you stuck him at his best in our team now he wouldn't stand out.

The Antonee Robinson that played for us when we shit in the second tier was a better left back than Henrik Pedersen too.

Agreed, although on Ped, his versatility made him a relatively top player - he could have played anywhere from 2 to 11 and he'd be decent (but never outstanding). 

I've never gone along with the argument that a player was better than such a player just because he played in the Prem.  Circumstances and being in the right place at the right time plays a huge role, we've had other players that would have played for us whether we were 3rd div or Prem - Scott Green, Branagan, Jimmy Phillips, McGinlay, David Lee.  There are more recent examples whose status as players was determined by the success or otherwise of the team.

Brian Borrows was a lower 3rd division player for us in the 80s (having started league games for Everton including the Merseyside derby).  I haven't seen many better full backs for us in any division, and a class above Nicky Hunt (no disrespect to him at all).  If he'd been around a decade or 2 later, he'd have played in higher divisions and been up there with our more lauded players.

As much as I like and admire Bradley he wouldn't get in any all time 11 of mine on the back of one loan season.

By and large, we tend to judge 'all time XI' or legend status on sustained contribution more than dramatic short term / loan impact, or at least I would. 

The likes of Hierro, JJ and Youri sprinkled unforgettable stardust on us for relatively short periods and we were privileged to see them in our shirts but arguably SKD made every bit as pivotal contribution over a sustained period. 

The discussion about Bradley might be framed a bit differently when we see what he goes on to be, a bit like Sturridge or Wilshire for example. The year after we'd had them we probably had a similar view to that we have of Bradley now.

12 hours ago, gonzo said:

Hierro wouldn't make it in to my to 40 players for what he actually did at Bolton.

Truth be told he was fucking shite.

I always thought I was alone in holding this view.

8 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Agreed, although on Ped, his versatility made him a relatively top player - he could have played anywhere from 2 to 11 and he'd be decent (but never outstanding). 

I've never gone along with the argument that a player was better than such a player just because he played in the Prem.  Circumstances and being in the right place at the right time plays a huge role, we've had other players that would have played for us whether we were 3rd div or Prem - Scott Green, Branagan, Jimmy Phillips, McGinlay, David Lee.  There are more recent examples whose status as players was determined by the success or otherwise of the team.

Brian Borrows was a lower 3rd division player for us in the 80s (having started league games for Everton including the Merseyside derby).  I haven't seen many better full backs for us in any division, and a class above Nicky Hunt (no disrespect to him at all).  If he'd been around a decade or 2 later, he'd have played in higher divisions and been up there with our more lauded players.

 

Quite. Players, for various reasons, end up playing below the level they're capable of. A bunch of Ipswich's current team played for them in League One. Leicester won the Premier League with half a dozen they'd had in the Championship. Those players didn't all suddenly evolve when they got to a higher league, they were always good.

Similarly, we've had countless players who played lots of games at higher levels who came to us and were fucking shite. Kion Etete has played 50 games in the Championship, Dion Charles has played 0. I know who the better footballer is.

2 hours ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said:

As much as I like and admire Bradley he wouldn't get in any all time 11 of mine on the back of one loan season.

Surely when we say all time you don’t get past Hartle?

Id never seen him play but from my dad’s review and BWFC career stats. This probably isn’t up for debate. 

This is why the all time debates are a bit rubbish. Way too subjective in your eras.

i say the more good the merrier. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, tomski said:

i say the more good the merrier. 

Every player mentioned in this debate is a great, whether it’s a BWFC great or a great who played for BWFC.

All valid and should be celebrated.

Not sure how it ends up into a WanderersWays nail your colours to the mast, you’re wrong, I’m right, he’s amazing, he was shite.

Not quite sure how we get to the truth being Hierro was shite 🤣

My All Time XI

James Trafford 

 

Conor Bradley

Craig Dawson

Fernando Hierro

Vincent Candela

 

Jack Wlshere

Hidetoshi Nakata

Rodrigo Moreno

 

Daniel Sturridge

Salva Ballesta

Fredi Bobic

Loan 11 I take that?

4 minutes ago, tomski said:

Loan 11 I take that?

Aye, except Hierro, all were good and did really well, elsewhere 

12 minutes ago, Zico said:

My All Time XI

James Trafford 

 

Conor Bradley

Craig Dawson

Fernando Hierro

Vincent Candela

 

Jack Wlshere

Hidetoshi Nakata

Rodrigo Moreno

 

Daniel Sturridge

Salva Ballesta

Fredi Bobic

 

11 minutes ago, tomski said:

Loan 11 I take that?

Well if them are the rules.

Get Laville at CB

Push Hierro with Campo into Mid

And let’s get Alf and Djorkaeff up front.

Not far off being a world class Bolton 11

 

Edited May 17, 20251 yr by desperado

6 minutes ago, desperado said:

 

Well if them are the rules.

Get Laville at CB

Push Hierro with Campo into Mid

And let’s get Alf and Djorkaeff up front.

Not far off being a world class Bolton 11

 

Nah, we signed YD permanently, never on loan 

Plus Campo and ALF also signed permanently and did well

Campo and Youri have genuine cases for all time XI for how good they were as players and what they did for us

15 minutes ago, Zico said:

Nah, we signed YD permanently, never on loan 

Plus Campo and ALF also signed permanently and did well

Campo and Youri have genuine cases for all time XI for how good they were as players and what they did for us

“Yes, Youri Djorkaeff did initially join Bolton Wanderers on a loan deal before making the move permanent. He joined on loan from Inter Milan in February 2002. The loan deal was until the end of the season, and then he became a permanent player for Bolton”

19 minutes ago, Zico said:

Plus Campo and ALF also signed permanently and did well

As did Dawson and Candela In your team (after their loan deals like the above) 

Not sure what the rules are in this game 🤣

 

3 minutes ago, desperado said:

As did Dawson and Candela In your team (after their loan deals like the above) 

Not sure what the rules are in this game 🤣

 

We never signed Dawson or Candela permanently 

It's a team of players that were on loan or passing through for a short period of time, a season or less, but really did well elsewhere

14 minutes ago, desperado said:

“Yes, Youri Djorkaeff did initially join Bolton Wanderers on a loan deal before making the move permanent. He joined on loan from Inter Milan in February 2002. The loan deal was until the end of the season, and then he became a permanent player for Bolton”

He came from Kaiserslautern, they cancelled his contract so he could sign for us

10 minutes ago, Zico said:

We never signed Dawson or Candela permanently 

It's a team of players that were on loan or passing through for a short period of time, a season or less, but really did well elsewhere

Your Youri claim is now making me think you are right.

So is this another AI claim we can’t trust 

“Yes, Vincent Candela did sign permanently for Bolton after his initial loan deal. He initially joined Bolton on a short-term contract and then signed a five-month contract. Following his initial contract, he unexpectedly signed permanently with the club in the following summer”

6 minutes ago, desperado said:

Your Youri claim is now making me think you are right.

So is this another AI claim we can’t trust 

“Yes, Vincent Candela did sign permanently for Bolton after his initial loan deal. He initially joined Bolton on a short-term contract and then signed a five-month contract. Following his initial contract, he unexpectedly signed permanently with the club in the following summer”

He didn't sign "permanently"

I did think he was on loan but wiki suggests he left Roma mid season, signed a 6 month deal with us, then went back to Italy

 

On 15/05/2025 at 20:34, jmjhb said:

Stockport have spent loads.

In comparison to us 🙄

3 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

By and large, we tend to judge 'all time XI' or legend status on sustained contribution more than dramatic short term / loan impact, or at least I would. 

The likes of Hierro, JJ and Youri sprinkled unforgettable stardust on us for relatively short periods and we were privileged to see them in our shirts but arguably SKD made every bit as pivotal contribution over a sustained period. 

The discussion about Bradley might be framed a bit differently when we see what he goes on to be, a bit like Sturridge or Wilshire for example. The year after we'd had them we probably had a similar view to that we have of Bradley now.

 

Absolutely, there's tons of different criteria you could use to define an 'All-time XI'.

My suggestion that Bradley is in with a shout is based purely on the idea that you'd select it based on who were the best players at the time they were here. So Anelka would be in ahead of SKD or McGinlay. Okocha over Kevin Nolan.

Largely because we haven't had many good right backs, but the exact version of Bradley that was here at 20, over the 50 games he played he was a better player than the likes of Cox, Hunt, Steinsson etc. ever were. He'd have started for any team we've had in the last 30 years.

10 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Absolutely, there's tons of different criteria you could use to define an 'All-time XI'.

My suggestion that Bradley is in with a shout is based purely on the idea that you'd select it based on who were the best players at the time they were here. So Anelka would be in ahead of SKD or McGinlay. Okocha over Kevin Nolan.

Largely because we haven't had many good right backs, but the exact version of Bradley that was here at 20, over the 50 games he played he was a better player than the likes of Cox, Hunt, Steinsson etc. ever were. He'd have started for any team we've had in the last 30 years.

I love conversations like this, the type of stuff that you can lose hours in a pub over that ultimately has no right answer.

I’d push back on that and say it’s not possible to judge how good Bradley was for us, running past some shit League 1 left backs, when compared to the likes of Hunt and Steinsson who had to defend against the likes of Ronaldo.

Bradley looked brilliant, but was the Bradley we had good enough to play in a top 8 Prem team like Hunt did for 4 seasons? Not for me. Hunt got / gets a lot of stick, and if he’d only played one season for us at that level then I’d maybe say there’s some merit in it, but his longevity in a team that was genuinely one of the best in the country for a sustained period says that he should get far more credit than he does. Bradley is nowhere near him in a BWFC XI (nor are any of our players from the L1 / L2 era - they can’t be).

2 hours ago, Zico said:

My All Time XI

James Trafford 

 

Conor Bradley

Craig Dawson

Fernando Hierro

Vincent Candela

 

Jack Wlshere

Hidetoshi Nakata

Rodrigo Moreno

 

Daniel Sturridge

Salva Ballesta

Fredi Bobic

I always think of Barness when I think of great solid players. Am convinced I’m wrong mind ha ha 

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I love conversations like this, the type of stuff that you can lose hours in a pub over that ultimately has no right answer.

I’d push back on that and say it’s not possible to judge how good Bradley was for us, running past some shit League 1 left backs, when compared to the likes of Hunt and Steinsson who had to defend against the likes of Ronaldo.

Bradley looked brilliant, but was the Bradley we had good enough to play in a top 8 Prem team like Hunt did for 4 seasons? Not for me. Hunt got / gets a lot of stick, and if he’d only played one season for us at that level then I’d maybe say there’s some merit in it, but his longevity in a team that was genuinely one of the best in the country for a sustained period says that he should get far more credit than he does. Bradley is nowhere near him in a BWFC XI (nor are any of our players from the L1 / L2 era - they can’t be).

Like you, I enjoy conversations like this. No right or wrong.

I think both, Hunt and Bradley, are worthy contenders. 

I’m probably siding just with Bradley over Hunt. I think Hunt was very much a beneficiary of the players around him, the system and a manager getting the best out of him. Still nevertheless a vital cog in the machine and an iconic home grown talent, still quite rightly lauded today.

I think you put Bradley in that top 8 team we had, he’s not doing any worse than Hunt. And probably has qualities above and beyond Hunt.

Going against the WWs form and not overly extreme on the positives/negatives of any of them.

I think it’s great there’s so many options and variations of a world class Bolton 11.

I bet it’s up there smashing most aside 👏