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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

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Just now, radcliffe white said:

Just checked the last 10 seasons and we average a good 4k more than them bearing in mind in that period they’ve played 2 more seasons in the championship than us I won’t even start on away support

 

Why are folk fixated with that. Attendances are not the only measure (see Luton, Swansea, Burnley, Preston, Blackburn, Bournemouth).  Whether we like it or not Barnsley are currently of similar standing to us. There is no disgrace in that. I agree that when BWFC gets on a roll our sights will be higher but that hopefully is in the future.

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1 hour ago, Farrelli said:

Consensus on here pre play off SF was that we wouldn’t take many more than 20k.  In our recent history and current standing we are very similar to Barnsley whether we like it or not.

Average all time attendances are 17,000 for Wanderers and 9,000 for Barnsley, no comparison in my opinion 

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4 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Why are folk fixated with that. Attendances are not the only measure (see Luton, Swansea, Burnley, Preston, Blackburn, Bournemouth).  Whether we like it or not Barnsley are currently of similar standing to us. There is no disgrace in that. I agree that when BWFC gets on a roll our sights will be higher but that hopefully is in the future.

Not fixated just replying to your comment about being similar, yes leagues don’t lie very similar in last 10 however off the field there’s no comparison whatsoever

 

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10 minutes ago, Lostock Whites said:

I agree with the above but I disagree about Derby.

Derby aren't a bigger club than us, we are similar sized, they average bigger crowds which isn't a shock considering our location and them being a city.

However we have spent much more years in the top flight and premier league and have won 4 major trophies to their 3.

 

This is where the logic becomes a bit mind bending. We're miles bigger than Barnsley because we average 4k more. Derby average nearly 10k more than us, but that doesn't count. Recent history says we're bigger than Derby, but counts for nothing when it comes to the fact Barnsley have achieved fairly similar (slightly better) to us over the past 10 years.

It's almost like these metrics aren't really objective?

All in all, none of these clubs are particularly big in the grand scheme of English football and all have similar ceilings - mid-table Championship, a miracle season or significant investment might see them in the PL. No footballer would give the slightest fuck about any of it beyond how much the club is paying.

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5 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

This is where the logic becomes a bit mind bending. We're miles bigger than Barnsley because we average 4k more. Derby average nearly 10k more than us, but that doesn't count. Recent history says we're bigger than Derby, but counts for nothing when it comes to the fact Barnsley have achieved fairly similar (slightly better) to us over the past 10 years.

It's almost like these metrics aren't really objective?

All in all, none of these clubs are particularly big in the grand scheme of English football and all have similar ceilings - mid-table Championship, a miracle season or significant investment might see them in the PL. No footballer would give the slightest fuck about any of it beyond how much the club is paying.

Aye, that is pretty much spot on. There is no shame in being of a similar standing to Barnsley or Portsmouth or Charlton but that is where we are currently. 

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9 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Aye, that is pretty much spot on. There is no shame in being of a similar standing to Barnsley or Portsmouth or Charlton but that is where we are currently. 

If its a 50/50 choice, your picking Bolton over Barnsley based on the ground and facilities.

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54 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Ground, yes

But I'm not sure our training facilities are particularly impressive now

We train on a field in Lostock

The tailored suits would swing it mate.

 

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1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

 

This is where the logic becomes a bit mind bending. We're miles bigger than Barnsley because we average 4k more. Derby average nearly 10k more than us, but that doesn't count. Recent history says we're bigger than Derby, but counts for nothing when it comes to the fact Barnsley have achieved fairly similar (slightly better) to us over the past 10 years.

It's almost like these metrics aren't really objective?

All in all, none of these clubs are particularly big in the grand scheme of English football and all have similar ceilings - mid-table Championship, a miracle season or significant investment might see them in the PL. No footballer would give the slightest fuck about any of it beyond how much the club is paying.

Yeah that's fair enough. But I don't think you can base a club's 'size' whatever that might be on just the current and recent years, for me it's got to take in everything and that includes since the football league was founded.

Today is obviously more important than yesterday but yesterday still counts for a lot.

We could say Brentford & Luton are a bigger club than us or Brighton because they get bigger crowds and are in the Prem, but they aren't even close.

Because for how low we are now, we also had so many years of success/ in the top flight competing.

With Barnsley yes we average more, but like I pointed out with Derby it's not just about getting a few thousand more. We spent 73 years in the top flight, to Barnsley's 1 season, 4 major trophies to Barnsley's 1, European football, founding member etc etc there's lots to take in account.

But where we are at right now as of 2023, is a different discussion and obviously right now matters more.

Edited by Lostock Whites
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1 hour ago, Farrelli said:

Aye, that is pretty much spot on. There is no shame in being of a similar standing to Barnsley or Portsmouth or Charlton but that is where we are currently. 

The only metrics you are taking into account are related to last few years performance by the relative sides. 

Out of interest have you been to Barnsley away in last 3-4 seasons ? (Not trying for superfan points) Their ground is falling apart, I was shocked how bad it was. 

It is leased ( I only know that for the semi final their fans were asking if some of the closed sections might be opened). There is no infrastructure in place , the away car park is basically a grass hill.

They are clearly a well run club and Pre FV we could not hold a candle to them. But everything about Bolton is heading in the right direction and there is so much more potential in Bolton than Barnsley. As I said earlier the biggest factor that will get a player to choose a club will be wages and length of contract. 

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9 minutes ago, Ani said:

The only metrics you are taking into account are related to last few years performance by the relative sides. 

Out of interest have you been to Barnsley away in last 3-4 seasons ? (Not trying for superfan points) Their ground is falling apart, I was shocked how bad it was. 

It is leased ( I only know that for the semi final their fans were asking if some of the closed sections might be opened). There is no infrastructure in place , the away car park is basically a grass hill.

They are clearly a well run club and Pre FV we could not hold a candle to them. But everything about Bolton is heading in the right direction and there is so much more potential in Bolton than Barnsley. As I said earlier the biggest factor that will get a player to choose a club will be wages and length of contract. 

No I’ve not been recently and I agree with your post in general. However, this whole conversation started when someone said we could get one or two of their best players. IMO That is unrealistic unless we are shelling out some big transfer fees.  An ambitious player would view our promotion prospects as very similar if he had to choose at the moment. That is all I’m saying.

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2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Ground, yes

But I'm not sure our training facilities are particularly impressive now

We train on a field in Lostock

 

Plenty of folk wanting to put us down.

Iredale would be my benchmark for new signings rating us as a big player. 
 

He is confident he can make the step up, though, pointing to the fact that the club is well-equipped with one of the best stadiums and training facilities in the third-tier.

"The stadium is incredible," he added.

"I think they're planning on refurbing, maybe, a little bit of the training facilities, but the pitches that we have access to are really good.

"The stadium is incredible. It's probably the best place to play football, I think, in the league.

"You look at the top seven or eight teams in our league that has access to that, whereas every single team bar one or two in the Championship will have something similar.

"It's just another step up to that kind of level."

 

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6 minutes ago, desperado said:

 

Plenty of folk wanting to put us down.

Iredale would be my benchmark for new signings rating us as a big player. 
 

He is confident he can make the step up, though, pointing to the fact that the club is well-equipped with one of the best stadiums and training facilities in the third-tier.

"The stadium is incredible," he added.

"I think they're planning on refurbing, maybe, a little bit of the training facilities, but the pitches that we have access to are really good.

"The stadium is incredible. It's probably the best place to play football, I think, in the league.

"You look at the top seven or eight teams in our league that has access to that, whereas every single team bar one or two in the Championship will have something similar.

"It's just another step up to that kind of level."

 

Give it a rest

I'm not trying to put us down but the days we could rely on our training facilities being a significant selling point  against a club that has fairly regularly competed in the Championship in recent years (which was the comparison I was replying to, not a club that's spent the best part of the last 20 years in the fourth tier or lower) went when we sold Euxton

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1 hour ago, Lostock Whites said:

We could say Brentford & Luton are a bigger club than us or Brighton because they get bigger crowds and are in the Prem, but they aren't even close.

 

Which begs the question... why on earth does this matter? Brighton are two leagues above us, probably in a position that we won't get to in a generation. So what relevance does being the 'bigger club' even have? 

The fact we seemingly have the magic combination of fans and history to make a us bigger than nearly every club in England (if you convieniently weight it to one or the other depending on what suits), even if true, doesn't matter to players, it doesn't matter to investors, it doesn't help us win games. What's the point?

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There's a thread on twitter were folk are naming their ideal premier league.

We're in loads. Barnsley are not in any.

One of their best ever decades has just coincided with one of our shittest.

We're fucking miles bigger.

Anybody thinking otherwise is on crack.

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4 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Which begs the question... why on earth does this matter? Brighton are two leagues above us, probably in a position that we won't get to in a generation. So what relevance does being the 'bigger club' even have? 

The fact we seemingly have the magic combination of fans and history to make a us bigger than nearly every club in England (if you convieniently weight it to one or the other depending on what suits), even if true, doesn't matter to players, it doesn't matter to investors, it doesn't help us win games. What's the point?

A generation?

We've never spent longer than 15 years out of the top league.

The natural place for us is the top league. 

I expect us to be there in 5 years max.

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Can this be put to bed now on transfer talk.

In general most think we are a bigger club than Barnsley,  I am in agreement.

We are on a lovely upward curve as a club, money will be spent on recruitment- this has already been said by sharon and evatt,  indeed we have to make hay while the sun shines.

Oakwell is in a bad state and doesn't even register any similarity to the Reebok.

And lastly, (tin hat on) I think that Neil is doing a grand job - now we have moved on from the members only intro.

As in the times of Mr rioch and Mr Allardyce it is onwards and upwards for bwfc.

Now please, transfer talk only in here,  another couple weeks and things will ramp up.

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42 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

A generation?

We've never spent longer than 15 years out of the top league.

The natural place for us is the top league. 

I expect us to be there in 5 years max.

Im afraid you are still comparing things to the days we were last in the Prem. Things have changed considerably in the last decade and half the teams now have billionaire owners.  

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