Politics

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

There'll be a few on here happy with that news.

Supply and demand: your mantra. 

Be truthful, you'll sleep as well tonight as you did last.

Sad as it is, nothing will change unless countries in Europe get tough.

[BobyBrno]

11 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

There'll be a few on here happy with that news.

Really? You really don’t know anything about people on here. Wanker.

See what I did there?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Duck Egg said:

If the French really do give less of a shit about the welfare of migrants now, it's surely on them not the UK for voting leave?  Basic human decency shouldn't go out of the window because they're upset at the result. 

I agree. I don't think the French attitude has changed because of it though. A reporter a few minutes ago has been over and reckons he's seen lots of work on behalf of the French in tackling it from their end.

For me, as I've said before, for our part we have to reduce our attractiveness. Also work with the French for ways of stopping the gangs from functioning. 

[Duck Egg]

13 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

There'll be a few on here happy with that news.

And gives lie to the half serious suggestion that shooting at them would solve the issue.

If you're prepared to get in an overcrowded dinghy, in winter, in one of the most dangerous stretches of water in the world, i reckon you'd take a chance on dodging bullets too.

[kent_white]

5 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

This ain’t about politics. It’s about peoples lives. If your saying that Brexit has had an effect on the choices that the French make, then that takes politics to another level. I won’t make the obvious comparisons.

 

I'm saying that we're no longer part of the EU migration and asylum rules designed to limit the flow of migrants across Europe. 

None of this is coming as a surprise - to me anyway. 

And I doubt the French have changed their attitude towards migrants. They probably didn't want them before and they probably don't want them now. They've just less of an insentive to prevent them from leaving.

I can't believe anybody is actually shocked or surprised by this. Even the most ardent leaver.

[kent_white]

9 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

If the French really do give less of a shit about the welfare of migrants now, it's surely on them not the UK for voting leave?  Basic human decency shouldn't go out of the window because they're upset at the result. 

It doesn't matter who it's on for me. It just matters that it's happening - and was always going to happen. 

[mickbrown]

7 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Really? You really don’t know anything about people on here. Wanker.

See what I did there?

I'm sure there are.

They'll know who they are too.

 

[kent_white]

11 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Migrants have been camping in coastal towns for years, clambering into wagons etc.

Well before we even voted.

If somehow being out now means more want to come then surely it was a good thing?

If it means France gives less of a toss than before, then it says a lot about their approach to migrants.

For what it's worth, I don't believe brexit has had any bearing on the matter at all.

Simply that there is an increasing movement of folk as the criminal gangs continue to make money with apparent impunity, and countries from which they come continue to struggle with civil war, terrorism, economic disadvantage etc.

We haven't seen anything yet neither. As climate change continues, and more and more folk can't be fed from expanding dust bowls, they're going to be heading this way in ever increasing numbers.

I'm not arguing with you in case you plant pot plants in my garden and then call the police on me! 😁

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I'm saying that we're no longer part of the EU migration and asylum rules designed to limit the flow of migrants across Europe. 

None of this is coming as a surprise - to me anyway. 

And I doubt the French have changed their attitude towards migrants. They probably didn't want them before and they probably don't want them now. They've just less of an insentive to prevent them from leaving.

I can't believe anybody is actually shocked or surprised by this. Even the most ardent leaver.

All eu rules were enshrined I our law prior to leaving. Unless they've been updated and strengthened since, then nothing has changed.

Don't know if they've been strengthened, but unless positive action is taken, nothing will.change.

[Duck Egg]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

It doesn't matter who it's on for me. It just matters that it's happening - and was always going to happen. 

It's pretty damning of both the French and the EU if, as suggested, they're almost turning a blind eye to people putting their lives at risk.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I'm not arguing with you in case you plant pot plants in my garden and then call the police on me! 😁

The can't survive the winter- you're OK!

Be there tomorrow by the way- shit hit the fan again today, will explain then. 

[Not in Crawley]

4 hours ago, Cheese said:

Fucking embarrassing. She doesn't even know the basics. She thought Channel 4 was the same as the BBC...

 

It's OK though because she upsets people who drink lattes at the BBC and the British Museum.

🙄

[Farrelli]

31 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

That’s democracy pal. Whatever the result of a democratic vote, the losers have to accept the result. It ain’t Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

You and me might agree that we disagree with the result. I’m sure I could convince you that it’s affected me more than you. It doesn’t matter. Surely, the most important thing all this is that democracy wins.

 

I never said it wasn’t democracy. Just needs saying what a monumentally shocking political move it was for the UK all done to prevent a huge split in the Tory party. 

[kent_white]

12 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

The can't survive the winter- you're OK!

Be there tomorrow by the way- shit hit the fan again today, will explain then. 

No worries! 😁

[BobyBrno]

Just now, kent_white said:

I'm saying that we're no longer part of the EU migration and asylum rules designed to limit the flow of migrants across Europe. 

None of this is coming as a surprise - to me anyway. 

And I doubt the French have changed their attitude towards migrants. They probably didn't want them before and they probably don't want them now. They've just less of an insentive to prevent them from leaving.

I can't believe anybody is actually shocked or surprised by this. Even the most ardent leaver.

My comments are based on the EU’s stance against Belarus. They have criticised them for their encouragement of refugees/ migrants into the EU. They have no problem with the encouragement of refugees/migrants from France into the U.K.
People are risking their lives on a daily basis.

Surely as a humanitarian you are concerned about this blatant disregard for wellbeing of people who may or may not be genuine refugees?

The refugee/migrant crisis has nothing to do with Brexit. Whatever the outcome of that damned vote, we would still be in the same situation. Maybe worse. Who knows. 

[Not in Crawley]

2 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

Interesting reading some of the comments about retirement. I started my retirement planning when I was 16. My first day at work and I thought , shit, do I have to do this for 49 years? 
In retrospect, the last 50 years have been pretty damn good but that’s because I chose to do something about it. I didn’t rely on the government or anyone else to decide my future.
Also, I inherited nowt. 

I could have retired last year. I chose not to. I’m now in a position that I can either retire, semi retire or carry on working. Semi retirement is the option.

The point is, it’s my choice, no one else’s. Im in this position because I made a choice 50 years ago. 

 

What about when life changes through no fault of your own?

Got a mate, didn't go to Uni, had a successful digital media business which he sold for a nice bit of money to my old agency and got a nice slice of bringing in new business.

Pandemic happened, made redundant and work dried up overnight like us all. Tried to get interviews but he's 61, media agencies wouldn't look at his CV. I even got an interview at Universal Music Catalogue as head of media - job I was under qualified for before him. This is a man who ran Creation Record's marketing in its heyday. Couldn't get a sniff. Ageism is rife in media companies.

Then his wife left him, had to sent up by himself again and draw down from his pension to do that. 

Went for a beer last Thursday, he was just broken, doing deliveries, can't get back in the game, doesn't know if he has the energy to.

So your point about you are OK because of a decision you made when you were 16 is all well and good but a bit of sensitivity when people have done the same and hit some big life bumps through no fault of their own wouldn't go amiss. Sometimes it's not other people's fault either that they have ended up in a position they didn't see themselves in.

 

 

[Farrelli]

7 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

They have no problem with the encouragement of refugees/migrants from France into the U.K.
People are risking their lives on a daily basis.

How do you know this?

[BobyBrno]

8 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

I never said it wasn’t democracy. Just needs saying what a monumentally shocking political move it was for the UK all done to prevent a huge split in the Tory party. 

A simplistic view of a complex political scenario. The split as you call it, occurred in both the Tory and Labour parties. The Conservative official policy was remain. We’ve been here before. What was Labour’s?

[Farrelli]

1 minute ago, BobyBrno said:

A simplistic view of a complex political scenario. The split as you call it, occurred in both the Tory and Labour parties. The Conservative official policy was remain. We’ve been here before. What was Labour’s?

David Cameron allowed the referendum to increase his chances of retaining PM role prior to the 2015 election. Labours position at that point is irrelevant.

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

A simplistic view of a complex political scenario. The split as you call it, occurred in both the Tory and Labour parties. The Conservative official policy was remain. We’ve been here before. What was Labour’s?

But you always talk about the EU as though it's an unelected Incredible Hulk making decisions on the fly. Talk about a "simplistic view"...

[Not in Crawley]

6 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

A simplistic view of a complex political scenario. The split as you call it, occurred in both the Tory and Labour parties. The Conservative official policy was remain. We’ve been here before. What was Labour’s?

Are you seriously suggesting that the refuendum wasn't called as a sop to half the Tory party?

I mean, I applaud you for sticking to your guns.

 

[BobyBrno]

6 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

What about when life changes through no fault of your own?

Got a mate, didn't go to Uni, had a successful digital media business which he sold for a nice bit of money to my old agency and got a nice slice of bringing in new business.

Pandemic happened, made redundant and work dried up overnight like us all. Tried to get interviews but he's 61, media agencies wouldn't look at his CV. I even got an interview at Universal Music Catalogue as head of media - job I was under qualified for before him. This is a man who ran Creation Record's marketing in its heyday. Couldn't get a sniff. Ageism is rife in media companies.

Then his wife left him, had to sent up by himself again and draw down from his pension to do that. 

Went for a beer last Thursday, he was just broken, doing deliveries, can't get back in the game, doesn't know if he has the energy to.

So your point about you are OK because of a decision you made when you were 16 is all well and good but a bit of sensitivity when people have done the same and hit some big life bumps through no fault of their own wouldn't go amiss. Sometimes it's not other people's fault either that they have ended up in a position they didn't see themselves in.

 

 

There are nearly 68 million people in this country. I’m just one of them. Don’t take what I say too seriously. There are 67,999,999 others opinions that may or may not agree with me. 
You’ve no idea what ‘big life bumps’ I’ve been through. I could write a book. I’m sure many on here could.

Little Whit, I’ll be happy to help.👍

[fatolive]

15 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

My comments are based on the EU’s stance against Belarus. They have criticised them for their encouragement of refugees/ migrants into the EU. They have no problem with the encouragement of refugees/migrants from France into the U.K.
People are risking their lives on a daily basis.

Surely as a humanitarian you are concerned about this blatant disregard for wellbeing of people who may or may not be genuine refugees?

The refugee/migrant crisis has nothing to do with Brexit. Whatever the outcome of that damned vote, we would still be in the same situation. Maybe worse. Who knows. 

Think it was mentioned on the first few pages of the original brexit thread that voting out would increase the amount of migrants coming here as opposed to reducing it . 
was dismissed as project fear, but it’s against human rights to prevent people leaving a country, without due reason whilst in the EU all member states acted as one with more co operation as per the European court on human rights 
we don’t have that now ,you could argue that France should do more to prevent it , and the fact it’s life threatening should be reason enough but imagine if they came in , travelled across country and wanted to leave on a boat to get into Ireland for example,  would people on here be clambering to keep them here to stop them leaving as we are expecting the French to do now ? 
 

Let’s be honest , the answer from most would be “ fuck Em, let em go if they want why should we keep em”

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Are you seriously suggesting that the refuendum wasn't called as a sop to half the Tory party?

I mean, I applaud you for sticking to your guns.

 

Bizarre isn’t it?

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, BobyBrno said:

There are nearly 68 million people in this country. I’m just one of them. Don’t take what I say too seriously. There are 67,999,999 others opinions that may or may not agree with me. 
You’ve no idea what ‘big life bumps’ I’ve been through. I could write a book. I’m sure many on here could.

Little Whit, I’ll be happy to help.👍

In that case, try and perhaps not be so glib?