Politics

[paulhanley]

Just now, DazBob said:

Go on then. Which way do you think thick, old racists voted?

I don't believe in calling people thick because of the way they voted. Nor do I believe it is racist to want the nation state in which you live to have a reasonable and fair immigration policy. All nation states outside the EU have such a thing, It is commonplace. 

People voted in sufficient numbers for us to leave the EU for a blend of reasons linked to economics, immigration, democracy and others. That is why we have left the EU. 

Use of the term "thick old racists" is as twisted and bitter as a United fan after a heavy defeat, quite frankly

 

[DazBob]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Again back to the thick old racist thing, you so seem to feel victimised. What I would say is that is a free country, which you expouse, other views are allowed to be heard, and perhaps after a lifetime of believing that there was one narrative, some people want more balance. No one is calling you thick, or racist. As for your age, I have no idea. 

I'm guessing old.

[paulhanley]

2 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Because people like you use such “facts” to condescend to people like us.

Please explain why he is wrong.

He was a permanent representative to the EU and senior civil servant for many years. 

Correct. He still hasn't explained how it is that a so called sovereign state can't negotiate its own trade deals or manage its own borders in the way it sees fit. He won't explain it either.

[DazBob]

Just now, paulhanley said:

I don't believe in calling people thick because of the way they voted. Nor do I believe it is racist to want the nation state in which you live to have a reasonable and fair immigration policy. All nation states outside the EU have such a thing, It is commonplace. 

People voted in sufficient numbers for us to leave the EU for a blend of reasons linked to economics, immigration, democracy and others. That is why we have left the EU. 

Use of the term "thick old racists" is as twisted and bitter as a United fan after a heavy defeat, quite frankly

 

Nobody has said they are thick or racist because of the way they voted.  You're dodging my question like a politician.

Do you believe there are any thick, old racists in this country? If so, when they were presented with a chance to vote,  which way do you think they voted?

[Escobarp]

7 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Nobody has said they are thick or racist because of the way they voted.  You're dodging my question like a politician.

Do you believe there are any thick, old racists in this country? If so, when they were presented with a chance to vote,  which way do you think they voted?

Do you think there is a bunch of self entitled, snowflake, rent a mob, virtue signaling cunts in this country and when they were presented with a chance to vote which way do you think they voted? 
 

we are talking about the fringes and the extremes. 
 

it’s a pointless debate. Whichever way you argue it you can find examples to fit. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Escobarp

[paulhanley]

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Nobody has said they are thick or racist because of the way they voted.  You're dodging my question like a politician.

Do you believe there are any thick, old racists in this country? If so, when they were presented with a chance to vote,  which way do you think they voted?

I'm perfectly entitled not to recognise the validity of your question.  Your attempt to distil the debate about the EU down to "thick old racists" just about sums it up. 

Wanting the UK to have an immigration policy different to the one imposed by the EU does not make anybody racist or thick. People who have a different view of the world to you are not automatically racist, sexist, thick or at the margins of acceptability in any other way.

 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

I'm perfectly entitled not to recognise the validity of your question.  Your attempt to distil the debate about the EU down to "thick old racists" just about sums it up. 

Wanting the UK to have an immigration policy different to the one imposed by the EU does not make anybody racist or thick. People who have a different view of the world to you are not automatically racist, sexist, thick or at the margins of acceptability in any other way.

 

He’s not saying that Paul. I agree it’s tiresome that it gets trotted out. But I don’t believe ani or Dazbob are saying we only left because of a racist intent. They are highlighting that it exists. And it does. We both know this. But as per my point the opposite extreme also exists. 
 

anyway can we get back to actually talking about the future as we cannot change the past and it’s pretty tedious 
 

[DazBob]

Okay, fine, you've clearly demonstrated an inability to answer a very easy and clear question.

... and not because you're thick or 'owt.

It's there for all to see so we'll just leave it there.

[DazBob]

3 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

He’s not saying that Paul. I agree it’s tiresome that it gets trotted out. But I don’t believe ani or Dazbob are saying we only left because of a racist intent. They are highlighting that it exists. And it does. We both know this. But as per my point the opposite extreme also exists. 
 

anyway can we get back to actually talking about the future as we cannot change the past and it’s pretty tedious 
 

Spot on.

Anyway, the day's football is starting shortly.  Let's hope its a good one.

Edit: just seen your reply to me above about the other side of the coin, and yes, I agree with that.

Edited October 24, 2020 by DazBob

[Spider]

15 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I'm perfectly entitled not to recognise the validity of your question.  Your attempt to distil the debate about the EU down to "thick old racists" just about sums it up. 

Wanting the UK to have an immigration policy different to the one imposed by the EU does not make anybody racist or thick. People who have a different view of the world to you are not automatically racist, sexist, thick or at the margins of acceptability in any other way.

 

Let’s move on

Whats happening with the Irish border?

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

Let’s move on

Whats happening with the Irish border?

It's part of the ongoing discussions between Michael Barnier and David Frost along with fishing, state aid etc. 

What's happening with all of George Osborne's forecasts about what would happen in the immediate aftermath and medium term after a Brexit vote? Not to mention the rest of Project Fear? Or do you not like being reminded about all that?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

It's part of the ongoing discussions between Michael Barnier and David Frost along with fishing, state aid etc. 

What's happening with all of George Osborne's forecasts about what would happen in the immediate aftermath and medium term after a Brexit vote? Not to mention the rest of Project Fear? Or do you not like being reminded about all that?

Don't have a go at @Spider, he voted leave

[Escobarp]

6 minutes ago, Spider said:

Let’s move on

Whats happening with the Irish border?

I will be honest I don’t really care about the Irish border. I got to Ireland once every blue moon have one client over there and if the place sank it wouldn’t impact me. 
 

but why you keep asking the same question knowing nobody knows the answer is beyond me. Well I do know why you do it I just would have thought you had better things to do than keep asking it 

[paulhanley]

17 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

He’s not saying that Paul. I agree it’s tiresome that it gets trotted out. But I don’t believe ani or Dazbob are saying we only left because of a racist intent. They are highlighting that it exists. And it does. We both know this. But as per my point the opposite extreme also exists. 
 

anyway can we get back to actually talking about the future as we cannot change the past and it’s pretty tedious 
 

I'm highlighting a tendency among modern day liberals to immediately label anyone who does not share their world view as an extremist - racism, sexism, transphobia etc. It's insidious and needs calling out wherever it surfaces. If you don't challenge back it'll continue to happen. 

I agree re talking about the future but don't think this will go away. The woke and their friends love diversity unless diversity happens to include a range of views that differ from their own.

[Spider]

3 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

It's part of the ongoing discussions between Michael Barnier and David Frost along with fishing, state aid etc. 

What's happening with all of George Osborne's forecasts about what would happen in the immediate aftermath and medium term after a Brexit vote? Not to mention the rest of Project Fear? Or do you not like being reminded about all that?

I don’t give a fuck, Ireland affects me directly.

Its oven ready, so what’s going to happen?

[paulhanley]

Just now, Spider said:

I don’t give a fuck, Ireland affects me directly.

Its oven ready, so what’s going to happen?

OK. Let's play a little quiz. Do you think I am either (A) sitting in my iiving room with a sandwich, a brew and Football Focus on the box or (B) in the negotiations with David Frost and Michael Barnier. Go on .. have a guess.

[kent_white]

6 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

It's part of the ongoing discussions between Michael Barnier and David Frost along with fishing, state aid etc. 

What's happening with all of George Osborne's forecasts about what would happen in the immediate aftermath and medium term after a Brexit vote? Not to mention the rest of Project Fear? Or do you not like being reminded about all that?

He was wrong - but I still think there is a real danger of that happening if we leave with no deal. As a advanced economy, we've been affected much more by coronavirus than other similarly advanced economies. I think a large part of that is down to uncertainty about Brexit. Would you agree - or would you put it down to something else?

[Spider]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

OK. Let's play a little quiz. Do you think I am either (A) sitting in my iiving room with a sandwich, a brew and Football Focus on the box or (B) in the negotiations with David Frost and Michael Barnier. Go on .. have a guess.

I’ll go with 

C) “I haven’t got a fucking clue, the whole shooting match is one big guessing game and has been since day one”
 

Just be honest rather than reverting back to same old tropes.

Its a hatchet job. Winging it.

Oven ready. Tee hee.

 

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I'm highlighting a tendency among modern day liberals to immediately label anyone who does not share their world view as an extremist - racism, sexism, transphobia etc. It's insidious and needs calling out wherever it surfaces. If you don't challenge back it'll continue to happen. 

I agree re talking about the future but don't think this will go away. The woke and their friends love diversity unless diversity happens to include a range of views that differ from their own.

I agree about modern day liberals. You have tendency to lump all Remainers who ask questions in the same bracket. Then you get upset at people putting all Leavers In an equally small bracket. 
We are Leaving as 52% of people voted that way. But the other 48% have as much right as the 52 to question challenge and frame what Leave looks like. 
When those questions can not be answered it is not an attempt to undermine the vote it is a question about what our future looks like. 

[paulhanley]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

I’ll go with 

C) “I haven’t got a fucking clue, the whole shooting match is one big guessing game and has been since day one”
 

Just be honest rather than reverting back to same old tropes.

Its a hatchet job. Winging it.

Oven ready. Tee hee.

 

We'll know pretty soon now how all this is going to turn out. The choreography has already started. The future arrives, things get settled and we move on to new debates and new issues. When those moments come and go you'll have no option to stop sounding like a stuck record.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

We'll know pretty soon now how all this is going to turn out. The choreography has already started. The future arrives, things get settled and we move on to new debates and new issues. When those moments come and go you'll have no option to stop sounding like a stuck record.

But but but

Oven ready

Can you explain what your caped crusader meant?

[Escobarp]

@Spider when i voted to leave I had no direct reliance on the eu for business. My job existed and flourished either way. 
 

now I’m in a position where this directly impacts me. And being selfish if the vote came again today I would say no thanks I will stay. 
 

I cannot given your job and reliance on Ireland believe that you voted to leave and then bang on about brexit so much. It was always going to have a negative impact for a period of time unless you have a product only available from you which by the sounds of it you don’t. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Escobarp

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

I agree about modern day liberals. You have tendency to lump all Remainers who ask questions in the same bracket. Then you get upset at people putting all Leavers In an equally small bracket. 
We are Leaving as 52% of people voted that way. But the other 48% have as much right as the 52 to question challenge and frame what Leave looks like. 
When those questions can not be answered it is not an attempt to undermine the vote it is a question about what our future looks like. 

The problem arises when detailed questions are asked of leave voters as if each and every one of us is party to the exact detail of the talks between Frost and Barnier. The leave voters chose the way they voted for broad reasons around the economy, immigration and a deep rooted dislike of the undemocratic way the EU goes about its business. Frost and Barnier and rapidly heading to conclusions on detail. Answers to your questions are coming and then we will all move on. 

If you read my posts above you will note that I do not lump all remainers in the same bracket at all. If the vote had been in 2014 or before it's likely I'd have voted remain.

 

[Spider]

Just now, Escobarp said:

@Spider when i voted to leave I had no direct reliance on the eu for business. My job existed and flourished either way. 
 

now I’m in a position where this directly impacts me. And being selfish if the vote came again today I would say no thanks I will stay. 
 

I cannot given your job and reliance on Ireland believe that you voted to leave and then bang on about brexit so much. It was always going to have a negative impact for a period of time unless you have a product only available from you which by the sounds of it you don’t. 

To be honest I knew it would be difficult.

I just find great sport with people like Hanley who said it would be a piece of piss, deals done in minutes, quit whining etc.

Fucking nonsense.

The people running this exit are the problem. They’re pure dogshit.

[paulhanley]

Just now, Spider said:

To be honest I knew it would be difficult.

I just find great sport with people like Hanley who said it would be a piece of piss, deals done in minutes, quit whining etc.

Fucking nonsense.

The people running this exit are the problem. They’re pure dogshit.

Thanks for that. Its 12:30 on Saturday afternoon. About time for you to turn your attention to the football. Give that stuck record a rest and avoid the defibrillator.

... and I never said a deal would be a piece of piss or done in minutes. Please don't be putting words in to my mouth. Even the EU are saying one is close so it's time to wait and see what compromises each side makes to get a deal over the line.