Politics

[Escobarp]

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

 

You spoke to them aye? Why were you there?

[paulhanley]

Just now, DazBob said:

Yes. She's in her 70s and... her friends all felt/voted the same.

... and in response to Mounts' "Get over it" comment. I am over it, people vote for what they for for all different reasons whether I agree or not. That's democracy. Doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing this fucking thing gets done and dusted though so we can stop all bickering about it.

Very easy for remainers to say this now having spent three years trying to deny democracy from 2016 to the 2019 general election. They like to airbrush their appalling behaviour in that period now. However for those three years we saw the true colours of these characters.

Equally we are seeing their character in the dismissive, arrogant "thick old racists" nonsense that comes back around on here from the same old candidates.

Large numbers of people who voted remain didn't indulge in this from day one. Those who did diminished in number as time moved on. What we are left with now is the rump of remoaners in the same category as that character in the tall hat who used to bellow his anti-democratic sentiments outside parliament. 

Such characters have absolutely not "got over it". Still trotting out the same drivel as regards the EU. Still convinced it untouchable and beyond reproach. Still ignorant of its many deep shortcomings. 

We have left the EU. We will tackle the 2020s as a sovereign state with the same privileges and freedoms as 90 per cent of the world's nations outside the EU. We will trade on better terms with those growing nations. Meanwhile the EU will remain pickled in its dogmas and strangled by its stifling rules and regulations. And will remain blind to them all along with the diehard UK based remoaners. Time will take care of both of them. 

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

You spoke to them aye? Why were you there?

You are being rather pedantic mate. I posted that as if you listen to it immigration was issue for black and Asian voters too. 
In terms of spoke to personally. Yes I did the MIL is one BIL another. MIL voted Leave as too many Aishans (as she says it) near her. 

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Very easy for remainers to say this now having spent three years trying to deny democracy from 2016 to the 2019 general election. They like to airbrush their appalling behaviour in that period now. However for those three years we saw the true colours of these characters.

Equally we are seeing their character in the dismissive, arrogant "thick old racists" nonsense that comes back around on here from the same old candidates.

Large numbers of people who voted remain didn't indulge in this from day one. Those who did diminished in number as time moved on. What we are left with now is the rump of remoaners in the same category as that character in the tall hat who used to bellow his anti-democratic sentiments outside parliament. 

Such characters have absolutely not "got over it". Still trotting out the same drivel as regards the EU. Still convinced it untouchable and beyond reproach. Still ignorant of its many deep shortcomings. 

We have left the EU. We will tackle the 2020s as a sovereign state with the same privileges and freedoms as 90 per cent of the world's nations outside the EU. We will trade on better terms with those growing nations. Meanwhile the EU will remain pickled in its dogmas and strangled by its stifling rules and regulations. And will remain blind to them all along with the diehard UK based remoaners. Time will take care of both of them. 

Let’s blame people who voted Remain for the fact that after 3 years we do not have a clear plan of what we are going to do. 
 

What is the solution to the Irish border ? 
 

What is going to happen on the day it all ends in terms of people needing to import and export goods ? What paperwork will be needed ? 
 

What trade deals are coming and what will they look like ? 
 

We are leaving and now we have to make the best fist of it. To do that we have to have a plan to give some clarity and certainty to business. You constantly mistake asking for that clarity with some type of plan to undermine democracy. 

[Escobarp]

11 minutes ago, Ani said:

You are being rather pedantic mate. I posted that as if you listen to it immigration was issue for black and Asian voters too. 
In terms of spoke to personally. Yes I did the MIL is one BIL another. MIL voted Leave as too many Aishans (as she says it) near her. 

I am being highly pedantic I’m like a bear with a sore head this morning. So apologies. 
 

we all know immigration was a key driver for some leave voters. It’s the insinuation it was the main drive behind the entire vote that gets on my nerves. 

[Duck Egg]

Didnt a 3rd of BME voters vote leave?

I'm sure racists voted leave too but that doesn't equate to race necessarily being a main issue.

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

👌

No need to call him a wanker. 

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I am being highly pedantic I’m like a bear with a sore head this morning. So apologies. 
 

we all know immigration was a key driver for some leave voters. It’s the insinuation it was the main drive behind the entire vote that gets on my nerves. 

No worries. 😁. 
 

We voted Leave for a number of reasons. Personally I think the  ‘we are doing ok why change things’ attitude of the liberal left wing elite was the biggest. They ran a campaign that only spoke to people who already agreed with them. 

[paulhanley]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

Let’s blame people who voted Remain for the fact that after 3 years we do not have a clear plan of what we are going to do. 
 

What is the solution to the Irish border ? 
 

What is going to happen on the day it all ends in terms of people needing to import and export goods ? What paperwork will be needed ? 
 

What trade deals are coming and what will they look like ? 
 

We are leaving and now we have to make the best fist of it. To do that we have to have a plan to give some clarity and certainty to business. You constantly mistake asking for that clarity with some type of plan to undermine democracy. 

What trade deals are coming? Negotiations are ongoing with the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and with the CPTPP. (Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Vietnam). There is already an excellent deal in place with Japan and others with Caribbean nations, Central American nations, eastern and southern African nations, Georgia, Israel, Jordan, Kosovo, Lebanon, Morocco, Norway, South Korea, Switzerland and Tunisia. 

Negotiations are also ongoing with the EU. The upshot of those negotiations will answer your other questions. 

We are leaving the slowest growing part of the world this last 30 years. We will prosper and other proud European nations will see what is possible when free of the monstrous, monolithic bureaucracy that neuters their potential. 

We will make more than "the best fist of it" ... this is not a damage limitation exercise. It is a massive golden opportunity and we are about to take it. Be happy.

[paulhanley]

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

No worries. 😁. 
 

We voted Leave for a number of reasons. Personally I think the  ‘we are doing ok why change things’ attitude of the liberal left wing elite was the biggest. They ran a campaign that only spoke to people who already agreed with them. 

Yep. And many remain in the same echo chamber to this day.

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

No worries. 😁. 
 

We voted Leave for a number of reasons. Personally I think the  ‘we are doing ok why change things’ attitude of the liberal left wing elite was the biggest. They ran a campaign that only spoke to people who already agreed with them. 

Correct. So offering me nothing different than what we have now appeals to one set of voters. The “undecideds” were targeted by leave and ultimately they were more persuasive and that was evidenced by the vote outcome  

essentially if we are honest nobody thought leave stood a chance to remain were complacent and didn’t feel they needed to offer anything as they didn’t need the marginal voters. Cockiness sometimes comes home to roost in a big way 

 

[Ani]

Just now, Escobarp said:

Correct. So offering me nothing different than what we have now appeals to one set of voters. The “undecideds” were targeted by leave and ultimately they were more persuasive and that was evidenced by the vote outcome  

essentially if we are honest nobody thought leave stood a chance to remain were complacent and didn’t feel they needed to offer anything as they didn’t need the marginal voters. Cockiness sometimes comes home to roost in a big way 

 

Careful I might agree with you Paul H on consecutive posts here. 

[paulhanley]

11 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Correct. So offering me nothing different than what we have now appeals to one set of voters. The “undecideds” were targeted by leave and ultimately they were more persuasive and that was evidenced by the vote outcome  

essentially if we are honest nobody thought leave stood a chance to remain were complacent and didn’t feel they needed to offer anything as they didn’t need the marginal voters. Cockiness sometimes comes home to roost in a big way 

 

And did so again in the 2019 general election as people observed the abysmal behaviour of the democray denying circus parliament between the 2017 and 2019 general elections. Bercow, Hammond, Blackford, Swinson and the rest brazenly doing everything in their power to undermine the referendum result. The ultimate case of cockiness coming back to bite. 

They lecture and they hector. They bully on Twitter. They enter an election day thinking they've got it nailed. Then the electorate rocks up and puts a boot through their plans and leaves them feeling like a Premier League side after defeat to a lower league side on FA Cup Third Round day. How many times more must this happen before they start to understand that people don't agree with their world view and are entitled not to do so in a country with free speech and freedom of thought? 

At root all of the BLM stuff is a continuation of the remainer Brexit tantrum. People who think conservatively or believe in nation statehood all need re-educating if you have the elitist liberal world view. They don't like the ballot box.

Edited October 24, 2020 by paulhanley

[Not in Crawley]

BLM is a continuation of a remainer Brexit tantrum? I'm not sure how you start you pick that apart. 

Oh and by the way, we've always been a sovereign state, sorry to be pedantic and all. Free speech and all that....

 

[Ani]

18 minutes ago, Ani said:

Careful I might agree with you Paul H on consecutive posts here. 

3 in a row ain’t happening however. 😎😁😂

[paulhanley]

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

BLM is a continuation of a remainer Brexit tantrum? I'm not sure how you start you pick that apart. 

Oh and by the way, we've always been a sovereign state, sorry to be pedantic and all. Free speech and all that....

 

We're all thick old racists. So we need re-educating. All of this stuff bubbles up from the swamp of the same relentless liberal groupthink. 

We aren't a sovereign state when we hand over powers for trade policy, border control and billions of pounds each year for the privilege of membership of the EU. It somehow doesn't surprise me that you have an odd view of what sovereignty entails.

Sorry to be pedantic old bean.

[Not in Crawley]

Just now, paulhanley said:

We're all thick old racists. So we need re-educating. All of this stuff bubbles up from the swamp of the same relentless liberal groupthink. 

We aren't a sovereign state when we hand over powers for trade policy, border control and billions of pounds each year for the privilege of membership of the EU. It somehow doesn't surprise me that you have an odd view of what sovereignty entails.

Sorry to be pedantic old bean.

You seem to be the one hung up on the thick old racist stuff.

And yes we are, and always have been, a sovereign country. Not sure, despite history and your protestations, you carry on with that argument as well.

So its not pedantry, its just incorrect, whatever side of the argument you fall on.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

We're all thick old racists. So we need re-educating. All of this stuff bubbles up from the swamp of the same relentless liberal groupthink. 

We aren't a sovereign state when we hand over powers for trade policy, border control and billions of pounds each year for the privilege of membership of the EU. It somehow doesn't surprise me that you have an odd view of what sovereignty entails.

Sorry to be pedantic old bean.

Arch remainer, Stephen Wall, confirms that the EU projet aim was to surrender sovereignty 

[DazBob]

9 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

We're all thick old racists.

Nobody has ever said everyone who voted Leave was a thick, old racist. What has been said is that all thick, old racists voted Leave. That really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

Edited October 24, 2020 by DazBob

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

You seem to be the one hung up on the thick old racist stuff.

And yes we are, and always have been, a sovereign country. Not sure, despite history and your protestations, you carry on with that argument as well.

So its not pedantry, its just incorrect, whatever side of the argument you fall on.

Ah right. And if at any time over this past four decades this country wanted to exercise its sovereignty by having a trade deal with the USA, Australia, New Zealand etc ... we'd have been able to exercise that sovereignty without let or hindrance would we?

You know its a funny thing. When people get dismissed as thick old racists for daring not to share the views of liberals and their fellow travellers it does tend to irritate. 1. Because it is offensive 2. Because at root is a tactic to undermine and render illegitimate views other than the liberal one. It is an attempt at creating a liberal monoculture. An attempt that has been sussed and has failed. Your Blairite hey-days have gone. Despite your pinings they are never coming back.

[Not in Crawley]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Arch remainer, Stephen Wall, confirms that the EU projet aim was to surrender sovereignty 

And he is also wrong. Why does this seem to be a point of contention? 

[paulhanley]

Just now, DazBob said:

Nobody has ever said everyone who voted Leave was a thick, old racist. What has been is that all thick, old racists voted Leave. That really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

How broad-minded of you. 

Deary me.

[DazBob]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

How broad-minded of you. 

Deary me.

Go on then. Which way do you think thick, old racists voted?

[Not in Crawley]

Again back to the thick old racist thing, you so seem to feel victimised. What I would say is that is a free country, which you expouse, other views are allowed to be heard, and perhaps after a lifetime of believing that there was one narrative, some people want more balance. No one is calling you thick, or racist. As for your age, I have no idea. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

And he is also wrong. Why does this seem to be a point of contention? 

Because people like you use such “facts” to condescend to people like us.

Please explain why he is wrong.

He was a permanent representative to the EU and senior civil servant for many years.