Politics

[miamiwhite]

15 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I agree, but our tailored requirements are mainly european. What are we suddenly going to get cheaper that we really need or buy? This is the folly of so called great trade deals outside of the EU. What are we actually paying massive duties on that we can't get inside the EU?

Or in another way of saying it, what is actually the point or more importantly the actual tangible benefit to businesses in the UK?

I know you'll dismiss this article instantly, but have a read for a simple explanation on certain products.

 

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/busting-the-food-price-myth-in-a-no-deal-brexit/

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I agree, but our tailored requirements are mainly european. What are we suddenly going to get cheaper that we really need or buy? This is the folly of so called great trade deals outside of the EU. What are we actually paying massive duties on that we can't get inside the EU?

Or in another way of saying it, what is actually the point or more importantly the actual tangible benefit to businesses in the UK?

it was never about money

[Sweep]

3 hours ago, Winchester White said:

. No deal is not an option.

It is its a real option

[Tonge moor green jacket]

28 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I agree, but our tailored requirements are mainly european. What are we suddenly going to get cheaper that we really need or buy? This is the folly of so called great trade deals outside of the EU. What are we actually paying massive duties on that we can't get inside the EU?

Or in another way of saying it, what is actually the point or more importantly the actual tangible benefit to businesses in the UK?

Not sure what that means, our requirements are European?

With the Western world having so much diversity including cultures from beyond Europe, our requirements for products are truly worldwide. 

Perhaps less so in Latvia for example.

However that is somewhat besides the point.

Take Holland, it exports more tomatoes than it imports. Pick another eu nation that is the opposite.

That’s all well and good if the eu can produce enough of them to supply all its needs, but if it can't what then?

Imports of course, but these could potentially harm the Dutch economy. Therefore there is a balancing act to be sought and extra complexity. 

For us, that disappears. We do a deal with a tomatoe exporter who might be looking for technical expertise in return for example, and that suits both parties more closely. 

That’s the opportunity now presented to us. Its incumbent now to grasp this.

[Sweep]

21 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

it was never about money

Of course it was/is, it's been about nothing other than money

[Cheese]

3 hours ago, Escobarp said:

it was never going to be better or the same. But I didnt expect that so I’m pretty cool with it.  

At last. A Leave voter who admits they voted to make things worse. I don't understand the logic of doing so, but I've got a lot of respect for your honesty.

[Ani]

This thread is about as good as my betting ! 
So the article Miami posted says that Brexit is going to negatively impact us the most and also the rest of the EU. 
So this comes down to if you believe or not that the deals we will negotiate with other countries will make up the difference. (I am talking purely about the finances of the deal as that is what the article was talking about)
 

So I personally do not buy into the argument that the UK will get deals that are better than the EU  because we are smaller and therefore have less power. The next point is that because we can now do bespoke deals that are tailored purely to our needs rather than the whole of the EU we can gain advantage. Which makes sense. The example used was tomatoes. But any such deal needs to negotiated, agreed and implemented. Given these deals are going to based not just on ‘like for like’ but also include goods for services.  How long will they take to agree ? Who is going to manage this ? What will it all cost ? We are currently paying consultants £7k per day to use an Excel spreadsheet. Good knows what we will need to pay for someone to get an international trade deal agreed 

Miami has posted an article about the cost of cheese. The article explains that the price increases mentioned in a BBC article were too high  ( the article uses a diary product as we have diary farms - so fair to assume would not work for products we do not produce ?)  The article does show the price going up and makes no reference that I saw to if we have the capacity to meet the extra demand  ( if we have it makes sense that producers might be able to reduce cost so the price increase might be reduced although did not mention it that I could see) But as is stands cheese is going up in price. The article also uses Cheddar as its example 

So how many years since the vote I am still no clearer why we are better off and by how much. I do not love the EU but voted Remain because I did not see a quantifiable better alternative. It becomes a leap of faith ,if we had strong leadership I would feel better but we really do nt . 
It has been mentioned that this is all about money and ultimately it is. The Leave agenda was not pushed and promoted by the man in the street (although they may now support it)  so where did it come from ? Who funds Farage ? Who funded Leave ? In any negotiation you follow the money. Is it a coincidence this whole movement started as the EU was pushing through legislation to control tax evasion and money laundering ? The reality is that is what the City of London has some of the most relaxed rules in the world.

Think I have covered stuff that has been raised but just can not see latest on border checks in Ireland. Has that been resolved ? Unlikely I know but Patrick Bamford just scored a hat trick so anything is possible  

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Ani

[Spider]

12 minutes ago, Ani said:

This thread is about as good as my betting ! 
So the article Miami posted says that Brexit is going to negatively impact us the most and also the rest of the EU. 
So this comes down to if you believe or not that the deals we will negotiate with other countries will make up the difference. (I am talking purely about the finances of the deal as that is what the article was talking about)
 

So I personally do not buy into the argument that the UK will get deals that are better than the EU  because we are smaller and therefore have less power. The next point is that because we can now do bespoke deals that are tailored purely to our needs rather than the whole of the EU we can gain advantage. Which makes sense. The example used was tomatoes. But any such deal needs to negotiated, agreed and implemented. Given these deals are going to based not just on ‘like for like’ but also include goods for services.  How long will they take to agree ? Who is going to manage this ? What will it all cost ? We are currently paying consultants £7k per day to use an Excel spreadsheet. Good knows what we will need to pay for someone to get an international trade deal agreed 

Miami has posted an article about the cost of cheese. The article explains that the price increases mentioned in a BBC article were too high  ( the article uses a diary product as we have diary farms - so fair to assume would not work for products we do not produce ?)  The article does show the price going up and makes no reference that I saw to if we have the capacity to meet the extra demand  ( if we have it makes sense that producers might be able to reduce cost so the price increase might be reduced although did not mention it that I could see) But as is stands cheese is going up in price. The article also uses Cheddar as its example 

So how many years since the vote I am still no clearer why we are better off and by how much. I do not love the EU but voted Remain because I did not see a quantifiable better alternative. It becomes a leap of faith ,if we had strong leadership I would feel better but we really do nt . 
It has been mentioned that this is all about money and ultimately it is. The Leave agenda was not pushed and promoted by the man in the street (although they may now support it)  so where did it come from ? Who funds Farage ? Who funded Leave ? In any negotiation you follow the money. Is it a coincidence this whole movement started as the EU was pushing through legislation to control tax evasion and money laundering ? The reality is that is what the City of London has some of the most relaxed rules in the world.

Think I have covered stuff that has been raised but just can not see latest on border checks in Ireland. Has that been resolved ? Unlikely I know but Patrick Bamford just scored a hat trick so anything is possible  

 

Nailed it.

Absolutely nailed it.

 

[Casino]

1 hour ago, Sweep said:

Of course it was/is, it's been about nothing other than money

And nignogs

[MickyD]

8 hours ago, Sweep said:

Of course it was/is, it's been about nothing other than money

 

7 hours ago, Casino said:

And nignogs

And despite Sweep’s suggestion to the contrary, I’d say immigration was a much bigger deciding factor.

[Spider]

44 minutes ago, MickyD said:

 

And despite Sweep’s suggestion to the contrary, I’d say immigration was a much bigger deciding factor.

I’d say one of the biggest deciding factors is this notional and entirely non-existent sentiment that we will once again be an independent nation.

We’ve never been anything else.

Alas, we have millions of people who still gaze all dewy-eyed into history and see a Britain that rules the waves, owns half the world and batters Nazis. Sitting in the Spanish sun dreaming about village cricket, the Raj, Last Night of the Proms and lording it over poor people in far away places.

Those days aren’t coming back, lads. Severing financial ties with 20-odd countries won’t do it either.

[Escobarp]

We’re back to the thick owd racists again.  What a shock. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Sweep said:

Of course it was/is, it's been about nothing other than money

Not for me. 

[Farrelli]

9 hours ago, Ani said:

This thread is about as good as my betting ! 
So the article Miami posted says that Brexit is going to negatively impact us the most and also the rest of the EU. 
So this comes down to if you believe or not that the deals we will negotiate with other countries will make up the difference. (I am talking purely about the finances of the deal as that is what the article was talking about)
 

So I personally do not buy into the argument that the UK will get deals that are better than the EU  because we are smaller and therefore have less power. The next point is that because we can now do bespoke deals that are tailored purely to our needs rather than the whole of the EU we can gain advantage. Which makes sense. The example used was tomatoes. But any such deal needs to negotiated, agreed and implemented. Given these deals are going to based not just on ‘like for like’ but also include goods for services.  How long will they take to agree ? Who is going to manage this ? What will it all cost ? We are currently paying consultants £7k per day to use an Excel spreadsheet. Good knows what we will need to pay for someone to get an international trade deal agreed 

Miami has posted an article about the cost of cheese. The article explains that the price increases mentioned in a BBC article were too high  ( the article uses a diary product as we have diary farms - so fair to assume would not work for products we do not produce ?)  The article does show the price going up and makes no reference that I saw to if we have the capacity to meet the extra demand  ( if we have it makes sense that producers might be able to reduce cost so the price increase might be reduced although did not mention it that I could see) But as is stands cheese is going up in price. The article also uses Cheddar as its example 

So how many years since the vote I am still no clearer why we are better off and by how much. I do not love the EU but voted Remain because I did not see a quantifiable better alternative. It becomes a leap of faith ,if we had strong leadership I would feel better but we really do nt . 
It has been mentioned that this is all about money and ultimately it is. The Leave agenda was not pushed and promoted by the man in the street (although they may now support it)  so where did it come from ? Who funds Farage ? Who funded Leave ? In any negotiation you follow the money. Is it a coincidence this whole movement started as the EU was pushing through legislation to control tax evasion and money laundering ? The reality is that is what the City of London has some of the most relaxed rules in the world.

Think I have covered stuff that has been raised but just can not see latest on border checks in Ireland. Has that been resolved ? Unlikely I know but Patrick Bamford just scored a hat trick so anything is possible  

 

Very well summarised. I would add that some UK regions will be disproportionately affected financially (NI, Wales, Scotland)   by leaving the EU.

Consequently it is going to cause internal issues and will accelerate the likelihood of Scotland independence.

[birch-chorley]

11 hours ago, miamiwhite said:

I know you'll dismiss this article instantly, but have a read for a simple explanation on certain products.

 

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/busting-the-food-price-myth-in-a-no-deal-brexit/

Having worked in the food industry for ten years selling to the big Supermarkets I know a bit about food price inflation 

It’s been a shit show since 2016 because of the weak £. Huge amounts of the food we eat rely on some form of import for the RAW materials, the packaging, the fuel to get it from A to B. A weak £ makes it more expensive and these costs have the industry significantly over the past 4 or 5 years when the £ has been circa 15% weaker than the previous 4 or 5 years.

One thing we know is when it looks like a deal is on the cards the £ gets stronger, when it looks like no deal the £ gets weaker. The strength of the £ will dictate food prices 

[DazBob]

1 hour ago, MickyD said:

 

And despite Sweep’s suggestion to the contrary, I’d say immigration was a much bigger deciding factor.

Of course. Thats what the thick, old racists jumped on. Plenty of people voted leave because there are "too many foreigners" here. Anyone who denies this is a liar.

[Farrelli]

1 minute ago, DazBob said:

Of course. Thats what the thick, old racists jumped on. Plenty of people voted leave because there are "too many foreigners" here. Anyone who denies this is a liar.

Yes I think the leave campaign galvanised enough of this ‘type’ of voter which turned the referendum their way.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Of course. Thats what the thick, old racists jumped on. Plenty of people voted leave because there are "too many foreigners" here. Anyone who denies this is a liar.

Dear me! most folk wanted to properly control our immigration policy, and yes there were racists among that number but the overwhelming majority are not not racists, but just wanted our government to make our policies. 

[DazBob]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

Yes I think the leave campaign galvanised enough of this ‘type’ of voter which turned the referendum their way.

Tbf, I'd not even blame the campaign per se. I think plenty of folk just heard the notion of us leaving Europe and controlling our own borders and thought I'll have a bit of that. Keep them brown faces out.

Obviously this isn't what every Leave voter thought, but I reckon enough did to swing the vote.

Anyway, it is what it is.

[Escobarp]

17 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Very well summarised. I would add that some UK regions will be disproportionately affected financially (NI, Wales, Scotland)   by leaving the EU.

Consequently it is going to cause internal issues and will accelerate the likelihood of Scotland independence.

It’s not going to accelerate scottish independence whatsoever. Sorry but that’s just not true 

[Escobarp]

17 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Of course. Thats what the thick, old racists jumped on. Plenty of people voted leave because there are "too many foreigners" here. Anyone who denies this is a liar.

Have you spoke to anyone who voted that way for that reason? Genuine question have you? Because I know I haven’t 

[Mounts Kipper]

It’s time folk got over it. 

[DazBob]

12 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Have you spoke to anyone who voted that way for that reason? Genuine question have you? Because I know I haven’t 

Yes. She's in her 70s... and her friends all felt/voted the same.

... and in response to Mounts' "Get over it" comment. I am over it, people vote for what they for for all different reasons whether I agree or not. That's democracy. Doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing this fucking thing gets done and dusted though so we can stop all bickering about it.

Edited October 24, 2020 by DazBob

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Yes. She's in her 70s... and her friends all felt/voted the same.

... and in response to Mounts' "Get over it" comment. I am over it, people vote for what they for for all different reasons whether I agree or not. That's democracy. Doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing this fucking thing gets done and dusted though so we can stop all bickering about it.

Thank you 

I couldn’t agree more it needs putting to bed 

[Ani]

17 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Have you spoke to anyone who voted that way for that reason? Genuine question have you? Because I know I haven’t