Politics

[miamiwhite]

Just now, paulhanley said:

They spent three years trying to de-legitimise the result, actively looking for any slight whiff of wrongdoing (without finding any), lecturing that people "didn't know what they voted for" and egging on out and out democracy deniers like Lord Adonis and Gina Miller. It was utterly appalling. Until 2016 I'd have never thought we lived in a country where a significant number of people think they can manipulate/ignore/suppress the result of a referendum. We now know different.

The debate between remainers and leavers was inevitable. The attempts to undermine the result on June 23, 2016 quite another. It has destroyed trust and raised deep suspicions about coercive tendencies that clearly lurk in the liberal mindset. Since December 2019 there seems to have been a retrenchment whereby those responsible want to airbrush their behaviour between 2016 and 2019. It will not be forgotten.

Great minds re Miller and Co.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

They spent three years trying to de-legitimise the result, actively looking for any slight whiff of wrongdoing (without finding any), lecturing that people "didn't know what they voted for" and egging on out and out democracy deniers like Lord Adonis and Gina Miller. It was utterly appalling. Until 2016 I'd have never thought we lived in a country where a significant number of people think they can manipulate/ignore/suppress the result of a referendum. We now know different.

The debate between remainers and leavers was inevitable. The attempts to undermine the result on June 23, 2016 quite another. It has destroyed trust and raised deep suspicions about coercive tendencies that clearly lurk in the liberal mindset. Since December 2019 there seems to have been a retrenchment whereby those responsible want to airbrush their behaviour between 2016 and 2019. It will not be forgotten.

Speaking of Adonis;

"It is my view that when we rejoin the European Union we should also join the Euro. Probably we won’t be able to rejoin on any other terms anyway"

 

[Spider]

I don’t think anyone has ever done a Trump and denied that Leave won the referendum.

If you can find a post that says they did, please quote it on here.

Anyone who says they knew what they were voting for is also a big fat fibber.

I don’t remember anyone saying it would take 4 years and that the details of the leaving deal would still be a mystery to everyone 7 weeks before we part ways.

No-one has denied democracy as everyone accepted the result.

Don't thank me later for this Fact-laden post, thank me now.

Now.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Spider

[Spider]

I’ll start:

”Thank you Spider, that was beautifully put and I’m very grateful for you settling the matter so succinctly”

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

I don’t think anyone has ever done a Trump and denied that Leave won the referendum.

If you can find a post that says they did, please quote it on here.

Anyone who says they knew what they were voting for is also a big fat fibber.

I don’t remember anyone saying it would take 4 years and that the details of the leaving deal would still be a mystery to everyone 7 weeks before we part ways.

No-one has denied democracy as everyone accepted the result.

Don't thank me later for this Fact-laden post, thank me now.

Now.

I knew what I was voting for, though!

[Spider]

Just now, boltondiver said:

Thanks Spider!

You’re welcome

[paulhanley]

9 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Speaking of Adonis;

"It is my view that when we rejoin the European Union we should also join the Euro. Probably we won’t be able to rejoin on any other terms anyway"

 

He's welcome to his opinion. What was not welcome was the shadowy manouverings of people like him and Gina Miller to undermine the result in the courts. A disgrace of historic proportions in a democratic nation. It will not be forgotten. People with dangerous tendencies and brass necks.

At the very least he does now appear to be accepting that we have left the EU. He seemed even to be having trouble with that simple fact for some time.

The far left of the 70s and 80s were seen as a real problem for Labour and an electoral liability. But Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Peter Shore and the rest were democrats. That could not be questioned. Can we say the same about Miller, Adonis, Swinson et al? The answer has got to be "no". Their minds are clearly in a post-democratic era.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

I'm sure Adonis was in Python's Biggus Dickas sketch 

Or that knight who wanted to fight on without arms or legs

[kent_white]

12 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

They spent three years trying to de-legitimise the result, actively looking for any slight whiff of wrongdoing (without finding any), lecturing that people "didn't know what they voted for" and egging on out and out democracy deniers like Lord Adonis and Gina Miller. It was utterly appalling. Until 2016 I'd have never thought we lived in a country where a significant number of people think they can manipulate/ignore/suppress the result of a referendum. We now know different.

The debate between remainers and leavers was inevitable. The attempts to undermine the result on June 23, 2016 quite another. It has destroyed trust and raised deep suspicions about coercive tendencies that clearly lurk in the liberal mindset. Since December 2019 there seems to have been a retrenchment whereby those responsible want to airbrush their behaviour between 2016 and 2019. It will not be forgotten.

Nah - still don't agree. The equivalent would have been if David Cameron had refused to accept the result and had then accused the referendum process of being corrupt. Which didn't happen. 

I don't think anyone is trying to airbrush anything. The Brexit debate was still going on three years after the vote. By which time arguably - opinions had shifted. Even I thought the only option would be to have another referendum if we'd have left it much longer. 

Totally different set of circumstances for me. Anyway - I'm not getting going on all this again! 😁

[kent_white]

29 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Ok splitting hairs. So it’s ok then , in your opinion , if trump calls for a second vote yes to make sure people knew what they were doing in the first one? 
 

and ok for Republicans to stall the process of biden getting in by taking whatever spurious legal action they can find? That’s ok as well correct? Or do you not remember all this happening and people on here supporting it?

It's a totally different set of circumstances.

Maybe if the US election question was "do you want to get rid of Donald Trump" and they'd answered yes. But three years later Donald Trump was still there because the US couldn't agree who it wanted to replace him then yes - I might agree.

[Escobarp]

Amazing how two peoples recollection of what’s been happening in the uk over the last 4 years can vary so much   Parallel universe tackle 

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Amazing how two peoples recollection of what’s been happening in the uk over the last 4 years can vary so much   Parallel universe tackle 

It's cognitive bias I suppose.

I think the key is that we don't have to hate each other for seeing the world a little differently 👍

[Cheese]

Amazing how certain people are unable to understand the vast differences between a Presidential Election and the EU Referendum. Nuance is well and truly dead.

[Escobarp]

[Escobarp]

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It's cognitive bias I suppose.

I think the key is that we don't have to hate each other for seeing the world a little differently 👍

Zero animosity on my part towards you or most folk for that matter Kent 👍🏼

i tend to reserve that for proper snowflakes and shit houses 😆

[miamiwhite]

29 minutes ago, Spider said:

I don’t think anyone has ever done a Trump and denied that Leave won the referendum.

If you can find a post that says they did, please quote it on here.

Anyone who says they knew what they were voting for is also a big fat fibber.

I don’t remember anyone saying it would take 4 years and that the details of the leaving deal would still be a mystery to everyone 7 weeks before we part ways.

No-one has denied democracy as everyone accepted the result.

Don't thank me later for this Fact-laden post, thank me now.

Now.

Everyone accepted the result ? Accepting is classed as welcoming.......now, how many folk who tried to overturn it accepted it ? Lemons are still trying g asked speak to getit stopped, your double Drunken Steve Bray for one.

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

Everyone accepted the result ? Accepting is classed as welcoming.......now, how many folk who tried to overturn it accepted it ? Lemons are still trying g asked speak to getit stopped, your double Drunken Steve Bray for one.

Wasting your time 

[paulhanley]

10 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Amazing how certain people are unable to understand the vast differences between a Presidential Election and the EU Referendum. Nuance is well and truly dead.

Bollocks. Referendum or election in any country on any subject, the result needs respecting. End of.

[miamiwhite]

2 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Wasting your time 

I know mate, we are too good for his ilk

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Bollocks. Referendum or election in any country on any subject, the result needs respecting. End of.

Can you give an example of anyone claiming the EU Referendum voting process was fraudulent?

[miamiwhite]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Can you give an example of anyone claiming the EU Referendum voting process was fraudulent?

Thank me later buddy 😃 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/27/brexit-groups-had-common-plan-to-avoid-election-spending-laws-says-wylie

[miamiwhite]

Sorry......forgot to add.......BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM 💣 

[Sweep]

51 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

 

Thank me later when you're not part of a Federal State or EU Army trying to give it the big one

Why would that have been a problem? What scared you so much about the possibility it?

[paulhanley]

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Can you give an example of anyone claiming the EU Referendum voting process was fraudulent?

Cambridge Analytica/Russian influence is the first thing that springs to mind.

You can dissemble and wriggle all you want. Diehard remainers spent three years trying to reverse the outcome of that referendum. A disgraceful episode in the history of this nation. We have seen what's at the core of your dusty liberal souls. And it isn't healthy .... or liberal in the classic/traditional sense.

Edited November 14, 2020 by paulhanley

[miamiwhite]

Just now, Sweep said:

Why would that have been a problem? What scared you so much about the possibility it?

We have been through this before so check what i said that pal.

Thank you.