as for may, sugar had it right and im sure hes a labour peer

 

 

he reckons if may had owt about her, shed have fcuked it off after the election and let corbyn deal with brexit

 

guaranteed tory 3 terms after one of corbyn trying to make something out of an impossible task in his opinion

Absolutely it would have affected the vote and I’m a staunch leaver.

I agree. It makes the fact it went to a vote a real farce.

 

People voted with no clear idea of the outcome.

 

I continue to be amazed by how bad a campaign Remain ran.

it was bad, very bad, but how do you campaign against folk guzzling up the 350 million a week bullshit?

 

that group were never going to look for the truth

Edited November 21, 20178 yr by Casino

We do not have to pay the 40 billion if we cannot agree a deal.

The £40b is the divorce settlement whether we get a deal or not

Can you quantify your 100bn cost in the example of a no deal? Just interested as seeing alsorts banded about with no real explanation

 

Not really.....I'm assuming that if we left with no deal, we would enter a recession (of course, we might not.....it's more likely we will, but who knows)

 

During the last recession, our GDP dipped from £1.56T in 2007, to 1.46T in 2009  -  so that's a dip of £200B in a fairly short period of time, and we're only just recovering from it (apparently)  -  Regarding the EU, we shift around £250B per year to them I think (I know they sell over £300B back to us) - so if there is no deal it wouldn't be inconceivable that our trade with the EU could suffer, it wouldn't take much of a drop over 10 years or so to "lose" in excess of £100B  -  People are quick to point out that we spend more with them than they do with us, which is true....although if there is no deal, that might well change

 

Of course, the slack could be picked up by other nations - who knows??!?!   

 

I'm somebody who thinks leaving won't be great, and we may have a period of 10 years or so of pain, but I may be wrong, I hope I am.

 

If we do end up paying many billions for the privilege of having exactly what we have now then I'll view it as a waste of both money and time. Especially as I firmly believe we'll still have "open borders" and will be letting EU citizens in for the low paid / unskilled jobs - and after all, it was immigration that drove the whole "out" vote - your average man in the street doesn't give a fuck about Sovereignty, as they don't know what it actually is

The £40b is the divorce settlement whether we get a deal or not

 

He knows that really, he's just teasing you

The £40b is the divorce settlement whether we get a deal or not

 

Exactly. It's money we OWE. But Mounts doesn't deal in facts.

He knows that really, he's just teasing you

I know he does so I am now convinced he keeps on chucking these wacky statements into the thread to wind me up

As a slight aside, the chaos in Germany at the minute (politically speaking) is that good or bad for our negotiations?  - I'd imagine it's not great, but I don't really know

 

The chaos is not good for UK. If Merkel had a majority government she would dominate (I nearly said dictate) the final EU stance.

 

If she has to run a minority government she will have to focus on domestic issues.

 

If she does get another election it may be just as ungovernable as the current one (because of the showing of minor parties, right, centre and left).

If she loses to the SDP then Martin Schulz will be Chancellor - remember him when he was President of the European Parliament.

 

The whole situation gives Macron too much power within EU, which is not good.

 

With Merkel things could go either way for UK, without her it will only go one way.

Exactly. It's money we OWE. But Mounts doesn't deal in facts.

No, we don't owe it. We could walk away and there'd be some kind of mediation and we might see some facts of the EU stance.

No, we don't owe it. We could walk away and there'd be some kind of mediation and we might see some facts of the EU stance.

Even the staunchist of brexiteers acknowledge we owe the EU money for our commitments so that is not in question. We don't have the time for protracted negotiations on the divorce settlement because if we don't start trade talks next month we will not conclude matters before March '19. There are many that think we still won't have an agreement by then anyway.

Not really.....I'm assuming that if we left with no deal, we would enter a recession (of course, we might not.....it's more likely we will, but who knows)

 

During the last recession, our GDP dipped from £1.56T in 2007, to 1.46T in 2009  -  so that's a dip of £200B in a fairly short period of time, and we're only just recovering from it (apparently)  -  Regarding the EU, we shift around £250B per year to them I think (I know they sell over £300B back to us) - so if there is no deal it wouldn't be inconceivable that our trade with the EU could suffer, it wouldn't take much of a drop over 10 years or so to "lose" in excess of £100B  -  People are quick to point out that we spend more with them than they do with us, which is true....although if there is no deal, that might well change

 

Of course, the slack could be picked up by other nations - who knows??!?!   

 

I'm somebody who thinks leaving won't be great, and we may have a period of 10 years or so of pain, but I may be wrong, I hope I am.

 

If we do end up paying many billions for the privilege of having exactly what we have now then I'll view it as a waste of both money and time. Especially as I firmly believe we'll still have "open borders" and will be letting EU citizens in for the low paid / unskilled jobs - and after all, it was immigration that drove the whole "out" vote - your average man in the street doesn't give a fuck about Sovereignty, as they don't know what it actually is

Unusually good logical point for wways that

 

Can understand your logic and thought process

 

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to be leaving quite the opposite but if we pay daft money for the privellirge it negates any upside.

 

Disagree with the borders point of view strongly though. Immigration will be very tight. I’m happy for low skilled migrants on working visas. Time limited and if they stop working they ship out simple.

Disagree with the borders point of view strongly though. Immigration will be very tight. I’m happy for low skilled migrants on working visas. Time limited and if they stop working they ship out simple.

 

 

Which is exactly how Freedom of Movement works in the EU...but again, don't let facts get in the way.

Which is exactly how Freedom of Movement works in the EU...but again, don't let facts get in the way.

So all those eu citizens that are here who don’t work and don’t contribute we can kick them out can we at the moment? Really? You actually believe that ? We issue working visas to eu citizens currently do we and limit them from entering if they don’t have gainful employment currently?

So all those eu citizens that are here who don’t work and don’t contribute we can kick them out can we at the moment? Really? You actually believe that ? We issue working visas to eu citizens currently do we and limit them from entering if they don’t have gainful employment currently?

I don’t think you will find many EU citizens that come here not to work, if you do then they are likely tourists and support themselves

I don’t think you will find many EU citizens that come here not to work, if you do then they are likely tourists and support themselves

Posted this before but here you are

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/amp/

Edited November 21, 20178 yr by Escobarp

Posted this before but here you are

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/amp/

Interesting, the Telegrapgh point out that 390,000 EU citizens are here without work out of 2.7m (less than 15%)

 

They then go on to let themselves down though as the try to imply that they all must be living off benefits when in reality that information is in the public domain...

 

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-03/what-benefits-can-eu-migrants-claim/

 

Looking at this data from 2015 only 113k EU nationals claimed benefits, that’s a meagre 4% of the 2.7m EU nationals living here

 

Breakdown of claims...

 

How much is the government paying out in EU migrant benefits now?

Figures from the Department of Work and Pensions, obtained by The Times (£), reveal the government paid out:

£30 million in child benefit in 2014 to families with children living abroad - of these, two third of claimants were Polish

As of February 2015, DWP figures show there were 113,960 EU nationals claiming benefits - an increase of 21,870 since 2010.

 

Of these:

21,460 were claiming Jobseeker's allowance

17,000 were claiming employment and support and incapacity benefits

6,000 were claiming carer's allowance

4,000 were claiming lone parent allowance

3,900 were claiming disability allowance

 

I really don’t think it’s the huge issue the Daily Mail made it out to be

 

At least we will get some Blue Passports though

Edited November 21, 20178 yr by birch-chorley

All valid points mate that have been raised before

 

But it’s ok as cheese knows how to kick out the 113k under freedom of movement which is just wonderful.

All valid points mate that have been raised before

 

But it’s ok as cheese knows how to kick out the 113k under freedom of movement which is just wonderful.

Cheese is an expert in all matters pro-EU

So all those eu citizens that are here who don’t work and don’t contribute we can kick them out can we at the moment? Really? You actually believe that ? We issue working visas to eu citizens currently do we and limit them from entering if they don’t have gainful employment currently?

 

Yes. Our government just choose not to implement the regulations. Are you really so thick that you believe EU citizens can simply wander over to any EU country and claim benefits on arrival?

Edited November 22, 20178 yr by Cheese

Yes. Our government just choose not to implement the regulations. Are you really so thick that you believe EU citizens can simply wander over to any EU country and claim benefits on arrival?

Don’t recall mentioning benefits in this little debate we are having.

 

And if you are the benchmark for thick or obnoxious for that matter then you win hands down undoubtedly it would appear

And if you are the benchmark for thick or obnoxious for that matter then you win hands down undoubtedly it would appear

Play the ball not the man.

£450 per household to leave so far.

 

Expensive passports.

 

This is before all the costs and time being spent on the mess. David Cameron should be shot.

£450 per household to leave so far.

 

Expensive passports.

 

This is before all the costs and time being spent on the mess. David Cameron should be shot.

 

The cost keeps coming down it was 4K before the vote. ????

Don’t recall mentioning benefits in this little debate we are having.

 

 

What's your problem with EU nationals here out of work then?

 

As birch hints at EU nationals in my experience don't come here to not work. I certainly wouldn't travel halfway across Europe to live on Dickson Road through choice. They come for the wages and good on em.