Take Over

[Sluffy]

58 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I have an accumulation of questions but lets just stick to one for now, Sluffy. Where is the evidence that the £5m Moonshift advance has become £8m and thereby become a bigger creditor than PBP's £5.5m? You may have noticed that, whenever possible, I aim to be accurate.

I certainly do know and appreciate fully your accuracy on all things you state and my list above is merely a daily round up of the 'gossip' mainly done for me to comprehend what's been said through the day and to pass them on to fellow Bolton fans on Nuts to read.

I clearly state that it is up to the reader to choose how believable the narrative is and not that it is I who are claiming these things to be true and/or accurate.

Howard is the only person giving us any narrative to what is going on - but no one knows on the scale between 'completely made up' to 'bang on the money', how truthful his account really is.

He certainly hasn't turned up out of the blue and started telling us things, without having a reason, and if we knew what the reason was we would know how accurate, or not, what he is telling us is.

He clearly has  knowledge of the subject area far more than most on here - for example he told us no deal would happen on a Sunday, when Iles and Nixon were pontificating that it all but would.  Also (and unless anyone else knows contrary?) he's told us why Administration cannot occur due to EFL requirements on the ability to pay secured creditors in full and unsecured at 25%.  Things like this seem to be simple things to know if it is part of the stuff you do in your job day to day but something that would not occur to most of the rest of us otherwise.

Fwiw I had noticed when Howard first mentioned the repayment to Eddie's estate was £3m more than the £5m we knew about but let it ride because I have been more fascinated in the story than the detail.

Certainly not all of what Howard has said has turned out to be correct, for instance he's backtrack on the James advance of future dividends making up his £5.5m and also now this £8 million to Moonshift - as you so astutely challenged him on.

As the saying goes though 'it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive', I'm more than happy to continue to listen to Howard's narrative and hope he is right that better things will turn up for us from the background than the current on, off, on and off again, Basran Consortium bid but as always I will wait to see how things actually turn out than put my belief in what I read from some person I don't personally know on the internet/down the pub.

Keep up the reporting though Howard, it's been of interest and generally informative - and I have got my fingers crossed that it is on the whole true - the alternative being something that really isn't great to look forward to!

[Chris Custodiet]

8 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

No, Chris, I originally said they were secured but have since corrected to say that £5M is secured and £3M is not. I would suggest you refer to John Galt’s post regarding ‘forensic accounting’ showing a higher debt than declared. 

You talk like a straight laced accountant and work from assumptions that KA has at all times acted honourably, that cannot be the basis of your argument, surely?

You can't be that daft, or can you?

I'm trying to get to the facts, whether they favour Ken Anderson or not. That's what I'm doing now and that's what I've always done.

I'm still looking for evidence of the additional £3million. If it is correct, it seems to me that it must be a leak.

I'm also asking myself, if KA had had another £3million from Eddie and the proceeds of the Madine sale, why was the club so stretched for cash last summer that the manager allegedly didn't get his bonus for keeping us in the Championship against all the odds?

[RUREADY2ROLL]

3 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

I certainly do know and appreciate fully your accuracy on all things you state and my list above is merely a daily round up of the 'gossip' mainly done for me to comprehend what's been said through the day and to pass them on to fellow Bolton fans on Nuts to read.

I clearly state that it is up to the reader to choose how believable the narrative is and not that it is I who are claiming these things to be true and/or accurate.

Howard is the only person giving us any narrative to what is going on - but no one knows on the scale between 'completely made up' to 'bang on the money', how truthful his account really is.

He certainly hasn't turned up out of the blue and started telling us things, without having a reason, and if we knew what the reason was we would know how accurate, or not, what he is telling us is.

He clearly has  knowledge of the subject area far more than most on here - for example he told us no deal would happen on a Sunday, when Iles and Nixon were pontificating that it all but would.  Also (and unless anyone else knows contrary?) he's told us why Administration cannot occur due to EFL requirements on the ability to pay secured creditors in full and unsecured at 25%.  Things like this seem to be simple things to know if it is part of the stuff you do in your job day to day but something that would not occur to most of the rest of us otherwise.

Fwiw I had noticed when Howard first mentioned the repayment to Eddie's estate was £3m more than the £5m we knew about but let it ride because I have been more fascinated in the story than the detail.

Certainly not all of what Howard has said has turned out to be correct, for instance he's backtrack on the James advance of future dividends making up his £5.5m and also now this £8 million to Moonshift - as you so astutely challenged him on.

As the saying goes though 'it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive', I'm more than happy to continue to listen to Howard's narrative and hope he is right that better things will turn up for us from the background than the current on, off, on and off again, Basran Consortium bid but as always I will wait to see how things actually turn out than put my belief in what I read from some person I don't personally know on the internet/down the pub.

Keep up the reporting though Howard, it's been of interest and generally informative - and I have got my fingers crossed that it is on the whole true - the alternative being something that really isn't great to look forward to!

This is getting very boring

I couldn't care a fuck who owes who and who has been doing dodgy accounting; all that most on here need to know is when the club is being sold and when (or if) we are going to get out of this shit

[Howardroark]

3 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

You can't be that daft, or can you?

I'm trying to get to the facts, whether they favour Ken Anderson or not. That's what I'm doing now and that's what I've always done.

I'm still looking for evidence of the additional £3million. If it is correct, it seems to me that it must be a leak.

I'm also asking myself, if KA had had another £3million from Eddie and the proceeds of the Madine sale, why was the club so stretched for cash last summer that the manager allegedly didn't get his bonus for keeping us in the Championship against all the odds?

 

6 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

I certainly do know and appreciate fully your accuracy on all things you state and my list above is merely a daily round up of the 'gossip' mainly done for me to comprehend what's been said through the day and to pass them on to fellow Bolton fans on Nuts to read.

I clearly state that it is up to the reader to choose how believable the narrative is and not that it is I who are claiming these things to be true and/or accurate.

Howard is the only person giving us any narrative to what is going on - but no one knows on the scale between 'completely made up' to 'bang on the money', how truthful his account really is.

He certainly hasn't turned up out of the blue and started telling us things, without having a reason, and if we knew what the reason was we would know how accurate, or not, what he is telling us is.

He clearly has  knowledge of the subject area far more than most on here - for example he told us no deal would happen on a Sunday, when Iles and Nixon were pontificating that it all but would.  Also (and unless anyone else knows contrary?) he's told us why Administration cannot occur due to EFL requirements on the ability to pay secured creditors in full and unsecured at 25%.  Things like this seem to be simple things to know if it is part of the stuff you do in your job day to day but something that would not occur to most of the rest of us otherwise.

Fwiw I had noticed when Howard first mentioned the repayment to Eddie's estate was £3m more than the £5m we knew about but let it ride because I have been more fascinated in the story than the detail.

Certainly not all of what Howard has said has turned out to be correct, for instance he's backtrack on the James advance of future dividends making up his £5.5m and also now this £8 million to Moonshift - as you so astutely challenged him on.

As the saying goes though 'it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive', I'm more than happy to continue to listen to Howard's narrative and hope he is right that better things will turn up for us from the background than the current on, off, on and off again, Basran Consortium bid but as always I will wait to see how things actually turn out than put my belief in what I read from some person I don't personally know on the internet/down the pub.

Keep up the reporting though Howard, it's been of interest and generally informative - and I have got my fingers crossed that it is on the whole true - the alternative being something that really isn't great to look forward to!

To be clear, 

I stand by the statement that it’s plausible for MJ to have done a deal on the £5.5M 

With the £3M increase I’ve been straight on this all along that it was something KA owed on top of the £5M but was not related to the £5M. 

In terms of things I’ve suggested: 

That Basran didn’t have the funding; 

That Basran was out;

That administration wasn’t possible due to the EFL;

That there was another bidder;  

Fairly sure I’m doing well....

 

[Howardroark]

12 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

You can't be that daft, or can you?

I'm trying to get to the facts, whether they favour Ken Anderson or not. That's what I'm doing now and that's what I've always done.

I'm still looking for evidence of the additional £3million. If it is correct, it seems to me that it must be a leak.

I'm also asking myself, if KA had had another £3million from Eddie and the proceeds of the Madine sale, why was the club so stretched for cash last summer that the manager allegedly didn't get his bonus for keeping us in the Championship against all the odds?

£3M not a lump sum, didn’t necessarily all make it to BWFC. 

I’m stating that a forensic examination of ledgers would show invoices to and from KA linked companies with these companies also possibly factoring the invoices and now being considered as a creditor. 

Call it a leak or call it moving in the right circles, it’s still the case.

[Sluffy]

6 minutes ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

This is getting very boring

I couldn't care a fuck who owes who and who has been doing dodgy accounting; all that most on here need to know is when the club is being sold and when (or if) we are going to get out of this shit

The club isn't getting 'sold' and we aren't 'going to get out of the shit' until whoever buys us sorts out all this 'who owes who' and all this 'dodgy accounting' - so you're going to have to sit patiently and continue to be bored for a while longer yet along with the rest of us.

[onlyoneawalker]

13 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

£3M not a lump sum, didn’t necessarily all make it to BWFC. 

I’m stating that a forensic examination of ledgers would show invoices to and from KA linked companies with these companies also possibly factoring the invoices and now being considered as a creditor. 

Call it a leak or call it moving in the right circles, it’s still the case.

Without wishing to get lodged up your rectum and I take Cassies word that you’re genuine - I appreciate you taking the time to give some very insightful info that’s of value to all bwfc fans who genuinely give a fuck about the club...... now it’s lunchtime Saturday and we’ve some pie eating bastards to have a go at COYFWM 

[Howardroark]

31 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

The club isn't getting 'sold' and we aren't 'going to get out of the shit' until whoever buys us sorts out all this 'who owes who' and all this 'dodgy accounting' - so you're going to have to sit patiently and continue to be bored for a while longer yet along with the rest of us.

Or just don’t  read it

Edited March 16, 2019 by Howardroark
A

[Sluffy]

20 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

 

To be clear, 

I stand by the statement that it’s plausible for MJ to have done a deal on the £5.5M 

With the £3M increase I’ve been straight on this all along that it was something KA owed on top of the £5M but was not related to the £5M. 

In terms of things I’ve suggested: 

That Basran didn’t have the funding; 

That Basran was out;

That administration wasn’t possible due to the EFL;

That there was another bidder;  

Fairly sure I’m doing well....

 

You are doing well and I'm not trying to knock you.

I've enjoyed your narrative and look forward to reading more.

I'm just old school and simply wait to see how things turn out rather than take for gospel what someone says on social media.

I'm more than happy for you to be right, in fact I have my fingers crossed you are, I don't have a problem with that at all.

Apologises if I've inadvertently upset you in any way, it certainly wasn't meant.

 

[Howardroark]

8 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

You are doing well and I'm not trying to knock you.

I've enjoyed your narrative and look forward to reading more.

I'm just old school and simply wait to see how things turn out rather than take for gospel what someone says on social media.

I'm more than happy for you to be right, in fact I have my fingers crossed you are, I don't have a problem with that at all.

Apologises if I've inadvertently upset you in any way, it certainly wasn't meant.

 

No upset, Sir, and I’m sure your roundups are much valued.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Howardroark
A

[MickyD]

Just have a straightener outside the club shop instead of all this mutual admiration.

[white noise]

I for one appreciate the insight from Howard. It’s hard enough making sense out of all this, without Howard’s update it would be impossible. 

[Burndens Bogs]

3 minutes ago, white noise said:

I for one appreciate the insight from Howard. It’s hard enough making sense out of all this, without Howard’s update it would be impossible. 

Yeh Howards info has been invaluable

[Chris Custodiet]

1 hour ago, Sluffy said:

I certainly do know and appreciate fully your accuracy on all things you state and my list above is merely a daily round up of the 'gossip' mainly done for me to comprehend what's been said through the day and to pass them on to fellow Bolton fans on Nuts to read.

I clearly state that it is up to the reader to choose how believable the narrative is and not that it is I who are claiming these things to be true and/or accurate.

Howard is the only person giving us any narrative to what is going on - but no one knows on the scale between 'completely made up' to 'bang on the money', how truthful his account really is.

He certainly hasn't turned up out of the blue and started telling us things, without having a reason, and if we knew what the reason was we would know how accurate, or not, what he is telling us is.

He clearly has  knowledge of the subject area far more than most on here - for example he told us no deal would happen on a Sunday, when Iles and Nixon were pontificating that it all but would.  Also (and unless anyone else knows contrary?) he's told us why Administration cannot occur due to EFL requirements on the ability to pay secured creditors in full and unsecured at 25%.  Things like this seem to be simple things to know if it is part of the stuff you do in your job day to day but something that would not occur to most of the rest of us otherwise.

Fwiw I had noticed when Howard first mentioned the repayment to Eddie's estate was £3m more than the £5m we knew about but let it ride because I have been more fascinated in the story than the detail.

Certainly not all of what Howard has said has turned out to be correct, for instance he's backtrack on the James advance of future dividends making up his £5.5m and also now this £8 million to Moonshift - as you so astutely challenged him on.

As the saying goes though 'it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive', I'm more than happy to continue to listen to Howard's narrative and hope he is right that better things will turn up for us from the background than the current on, off, on and off again, Basran Consortium bid but as always I will wait to see how things actually turn out than put my belief in what I read from some person I don't personally know on the internet/down the pub.

Keep up the reporting though Howard, it's been of interest and generally informative - and I have got my fingers crossed that it is on the whole true - the alternative being something that really isn't great to look forward to!

I agree, Sluffy, that Howard has made several valuable contributions and certainly shows a knowledge of present insolvency law and practice way beyond my own. Its a specialist area. But the devil is often to be found in the  detail and, whilst content to listen to assertions that seem to add up, alarm bells go off when they don't.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[Youri McAnespie]

I think 'Ros Coe' is Lee Anderson, his username is alluding to Roscoe P Coltrane - right hand man to Boss Hogg.

[Ros Coe]

1 hour ago, Youri McAnespie said:

I think 'Ros Coe' is Lee Anderson, his username is alluding to Roscoe P Coltrane - right hand man to Boss Hogg.

How very dare you!

[jules_darby]

2 hours ago, Ros Coe said:

How very dare you!

First name isn’t PC then? 👀

[Spider]

I no longer care

 

[RONNIE PHILLIPS]

1 hour ago, jules_darby said:

First name isn’t PC then? 👀

Twas my thought too... 

[Ratwhite]

Big week ahead. 

 

Could actually be shit or bust.

[Ratwhite]

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Ratwhite

[Whitestar]

Pmsl, sums everything up perfectly.

 

[Benny The Ball]

This got me thinking - saw it on the BBC website yesterday - its sad at any level of the game -  you dont need to change many words in this article to get my drift 

 

Northern Premier League club and former FA Trophy winners North Ferriby United have been wound up.

The decision follows a court hearing in Hull when it was ruled the East Yorkshire club would not be allowed to fulfil any more fixtures.

They were due to host Bamber Bridge on Saturday, but were 19 points adrift at the bottom of the table with only two wins all season.

North Ferriby played in the National League as recently as 2016-17.

The year before, they beat Wrexham 5-4 on penalties at Wembley in the FA Trophy final after the game finished 3-3 after extra time.

North Ferriby posted a series of farewell tweets on social media

In a short statement on social media, the club confirmed it will now be placed in the hands of a liquidator.

"We would like to thank every single player that has played for our fantastic club, with every manager who has led us to success," the statement said.

"Our biggest thank you's are to the supporters who have helped to make this club arguably the friendliest in non-league.

"Most importantly, you have given your support to the team, no matter where we sit in the table."

The Northern League are yet to comment on what the decision will mean for promotion and relegation from the premier division this season.

 

[jmjhb]

They only needed 10k to survive

[Howardroark]

Just a point regarding Moonshift and Alan Nixon’s most recent twitter convo; 

Moonshift will never ever take back the shares from ICI directly, doing that makes them the owner of the club and liable for ALL debts. 

The situation is that the other buyer takes back the shares after paying Moonshift and then handles the debt via an informal agreement with creditors. 

To be clear, you cannot do a ‘pre-pack’ on a football club. 

A new owner could theoretically put the club in to administration but the cost to bring out of administration would be £11-£12M plus the original £8M to buy out Moonshift. This would save them £8-£10M on the current debt but obviously the embargo is a killer. 

So it’s £8M up front plus a further £12M to satisfy EFL F&PP requirements..... 

The liquidation process is simply the sale of assets to repay creditors, the assets could be bought by a new owner at a knock down price but the club would lose its registration to the league.