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1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

Seems like a fairly balanced view by the three contributors. At least one off here as well.

I think the views on there are ok.

When Ken adds a demand or 10% to the selling price this week or something comes out of the wood work might change.

 

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Give it a fucking rest eh  ‘somebody’s moral expectations of someone are very different to the legal obligations you know that and I know that. So why don’t you lay off patronising folk Chris and

I really cannot wait for the day we don’t have to read the words moonshift, Inner fucking circle, blue bastard marble or any piece of shit word associated to this horrible draining 3 year bullshit sag

Fucking massive clear out coming on WW later, either way.

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38 minutes ago, Ani said:

I think the views on there are ok.

When Ken adds a demand or 10% to the selling price this week or something comes out of the wood work might change.

 

I agree. People can only judge based on what they read and their experiences. 

I am too close to the club to have an objective opinion and I’ll wait for the dust to settle to make a judgement on his ownership.

 

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It was difficult to write what I wanted to write, having been told to keep it to 300 words (I notice others look considerably longer), but I was pleasantly surprised that they printed such balanced views, I thought this was going to be another opportunity to bash Ken on an otherwise slow news day.

The cynic in me says marc wanted some less than anti piece so that it creates discussion, though.

I don't know your own personal situation, Boby, but knowing what you do doesn't leave much to the imagination as to what your issue with Ken is and I sympathise with you. Some people have been treated poorly and I hope all gets rectified financially if not morally from the sale of the club.  

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1 hour ago, Traf said:

It was difficult to write what I wanted to write, having been told to keep it to 300 words (I notice others look considerably longer), but I was pleasantly surprised that they printed such balanced views, I thought this was going to be another opportunity to bash Ken on an otherwise slow news day.

The cynic in me says marc wanted some less than anti piece so that it creates discussion, though.

I don't know your own personal situation, Boby, but knowing what you do doesn't leave much to the imagination as to what your issue with Ken is and I sympathise with you. Some people have been treated poorly and I hope all gets rectified financially if not morally from the sale of the club.  

Great letter Traf. As you stated previously, pleasantly surprised at the published viewpoints.

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If it had been the can of worms that it was portrayed as why would Ken Anderson have bothered in the first place? For sure there were cash flow problems. a chairman who had  been terminally ill, a manager who had  been distracted from  his day job and player contracts which, with the benefit of hindsight, were excessive.

But the hard debt was comparatively tiny and the operating deficit was less than the average for a Championship club. There were still  valuable fixed assets and player contracts that would later yield substantial profits and a former owner who loved the club to bits and would still prove supportive when push came to shove. And Ken only had to cough up 50P

One of the biggest problems, viewed from the outside,  was the personal expectations of Dean Holdsworth and the Blumarble loan, signed off by Holdsworth,  that would take two and a half years to get off the books, with Uncle Eddie's help, of course.

Reed all about it in the Beeno. I think not

 

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I've long thought that Ken viewed the purchase of the club as a bit like Homes Under the Hammer on TV.

Buy it, tart it up, flip it.

So he bought it, the tarting up was to make it more financially streamlined if nothing else and therefore more sellable.

Phase 3 : the sale has proven difficult, but had he found a buyer between May & October of 2018, there'd be hardly any of the current ill-feeling going on. He's basically missed out on getting out with little/no abuse by about 5 months.  

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13 minutes ago, Traf said:

I've long thought that Ken viewed the purchase of the club as a bit like Homes Under the Hammer on TV.

Buy it, tart it up, flip it.

So he bought it, the tarting up was to make it more financially streamlined if nothing else and therefore more sellable.

Phase 3 : the sale has proven difficult, but had he found a buyer between May & October of 2018, there'd be hardly any of the current ill-feeling going on. He's basically missed out on getting out with little/no abuse by about 5 months.  

Does that mean were signing Dion Dublin?

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16 minutes ago, Traf said:

I've long thought that Ken viewed the purchase of the club as a bit like Homes Under the Hammer on TV.

Buy it, tart it up, flip it.

So he bought it, the tarting up was to make it more financially streamlined if nothing else and therefore more sellable.

Phase 3 : the sale has proven difficult, but had he found a buyer between May & October of 2018, there'd be hardly any of the current ill-feeling going on. He's basically missed out on getting out with little/no abuse by about 5 months.  

I'm not sure that a quid counts as a  'purchase' and he didn't spend any money on it but there seems little room for doubt that he hoped to sell it on a profit. But it was also a challenge and a challenge that he seemed to be relishing until it went sour in the summer.

Eddie is bound to have told him what the Beeno was like and he probably thought he could handle it. In the end it seems to have got to him big style.

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16 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Have any football league clubs ever gone to the wall? 

Also, if we're giving Ken credit for convincing Eddie to get back involved, does that mean Deano is a legend for bringing us King Ken?

Yes.

 

Wigan Borough FC went to the wall in October 1931, and their results were expunged.

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5 hours ago, Boothy said:

The BN resorting to continued besmirching without their resident thumb head headlining the article.

The sooner this is done the better and we can all draw a line under the whole thing.

”Ken loyalists‘ what an absolute cock juggling thundercunt. That’s the whole issue with this thing people hysterically ramping up the situation as if we are in an armed conflict or something and excessive use of hyperbole. Boring as fuck,  just like that article.

Once the group where I worked had a corporate culture scheme. It started with groups of us sitting in a room with a consultant who asked what we thought of the company. A German colleague piped up. "We spend far too much time looking up our own belly buttons".  Followed by mirth and a bemused German.

Anyway, I would put the BEN article well in the belly button contemplation category. It's almost as if they are trying to justify Iles Piles over the last 6 months..

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4 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If it had been the can of worms that it was portrayed as why would Ken Anderson have bothered in the first place?

Maybe time for my vague, largely irrelevant and uncorroborated non-story about our finances ...

Here goes. A couple of years ago I was in a conversation with two blokes, one a former FD at a premier league club and one a former chairman / CEO, again at a PL club. They were nattering about 'football people' they knew (for them, 'football people' meant directors, investors, types they'd bump into in boardrooms etc). I wasn't really in the conversation as the names meant nowt to me. Then a name came up - sorry, absolutely no idea who, and didn't mean anything at the time. Ex-CEO turned to me and said "he had a look at buying your lot".

He then made some comment - and sorry, it gets vaguer still as I can't remember exactly how he worded it - but it was along the lines of too many skeletons in the closet.

Largely based on that snippet, i've always thought that a big part of how we ended up with Holdsworth and Ken was because Holdsworth's thick and Ken hadn't had chance to look under the bonnet before sticking his 50p in.

 

 

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A close associate works for the forensic accountancy firm that dealt with the books with Trevor Birch. 

Trust me, they were a complete mess with more skeletons in the closet than 25 Cromwell street. 

 

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23 minutes ago, wakey said:

Maybe time for my vague, largely irrelevant and uncorroborated non-story about our finances ...

Here goes. A couple of years ago I was in a conversation with two blokes, one a former FD at a premier league club and one a former chairman / CEO, again at a PL club. They were nattering about 'football people' they knew (for them, 'football people' meant directors, investors, types they'd bump into in boardrooms etc). I wasn't really in the conversation as the names meant nowt to me. Then a name came up - sorry, absolutely no idea who, and didn't mean anything at the time. Ex-CEO turned to me and said "he had a look at buying your lot".

He then made some comment - and sorry, it gets vaguer still as I can't remember exactly how he worded it - but it was along the lines of too many skeletons in the closet.

Largely based on that snippet, i've always thought that a big part of how we ended up with Holdsworth and Ken was because Holdsworth's thick and Ken hadn't had chance to look under the bonnet before sticking his 50p in.

 

 

That would bring us back the old conspiracy theories from Gartsides era 

My opinion hasn’t changed a great deal on that matter, whilst I’m sure you could scratch the surface and uncover some small scale unsavoury practices on the whole I think it was all above board 

We had annual audits from a top 4 accountancy firm, Deloitte wasn’t it? One of the first things Ken did was get rid of them for a small local firm. I doubt an auditor of that calibre wouldn’t find any serious malpractice 

You’ve also got to think that ED knew his onions, it was his money at the end of the day. I doubt he would have allowed serious fraud to take place 

 

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41 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

That would bring us back the old conspiracy theories from Gartsides era 

My opinion hasn’t changed a great deal on that matter, whilst I’m sure you could scratch the surface and uncover some small scale unsavoury practices on the whole I think it was all above board 

We had annual audits from a top 4 accountancy firm, Deloitte wasn’t it? One of the first things Ken did was get rid of them for a small local firm. I doubt an auditor of that calibre wouldn’t find any serious malpractice 

You’ve also got to think that ED knew his onions, it was his money at the end of the day. I doubt he would have allowed serious fraud to take place 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/30/deloitte-fined-by-malaysia-over-breach-linked-to-1mdb

 https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-5792545/Deloitte-faces-10m-fine-tech-scandal-Autonomy-HP.html

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/justice-dept-fines-deloitte-1495-million-for-taylor-bean-whitaker-audits-2018-02-28

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/accountancy-firm-deloitte-fined-14-million-over-mg-rover-collapse

 

Actually Deloitte make Ken seem like Mother Theresa. Not to mention an expensive option for an accountant.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Boothy said:

You’ve gone some way to proving my point, if Deloitte has been part of some wider conspiracy then the later forensic audit that Gonzo is talking about carried out by a different firm would have brought this up surely meaning they would have been in hot water themselves as they were in your links? 

If the conspiracy theories are to be believed and this was proven by a forensic audit then its prosecutions, stuff that legally can’t be buried as people would be conpelled by law to report it 

I just can’t see it, not on anywhere near the scale that has been made out 

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2 minutes ago, Nowack said:

. I doubt an auditor of that calibre wouldn’t find any serious malpractice 

Carillion?

I’m not up to speed on the Carillion case but thought it was just poor accountancy practices rather than covering up anything illegal? 

The conspiracy theories against PG were indicating embezzlement and all that 

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8 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I’m not up to speed on the Carillion case but thought it was just poor accountancy practices rather than covering up anything illegal? 

The conspiracy theories against PG were indicating embezzlement and all that 

IMHO I would have said that both PG and Eddie did a far bit of creative accountancy nothing illegal but they sailed close to the wind

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46 minutes ago, Nowack said:

. I doubt an auditor of that calibre wouldn’t find any serious malpractice 

Carillion?

An auditor worth his salt wouldn’t be disclosing that info to their families let alone people where it gets back to supporters.

without confidentiality, you are nothing

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55 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

You’ve gone some way to proving my point, if Deloitte has been part of some wider conspiracy then the later forensic audit that Gonzo is talking about carried out by a different firm would have brought this up surely meaning they would have been in hot water themselves as they were in your links? 

If the conspiracy theories are to be believed and this was proven by a forensic audit then its prosecutions, stuff that legally can’t be buried as people would be conpelled by law to report it 

I just can’t see it, not on anywhere near the scale that has been made out 

Where did I say anything ilegal was going on? 

When did Deloitte say the accounts weren’t mess?

KA said about 300 times how much work was needed to sort contracts out that were agreed way before his time.

Wed just racked up £180m worth of paper debt and was facing insolvency due to severe mismanagement from those is charge. I really don’t know how you can dispute this.

Gartside had company after company registered at bolton and subsequently dissolved. There was another lass with he same who bailed at the first sign of shit.

It was a basket case that nobody wanted to touch. 

 

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28 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Where did I say anything ilegal was going on? 

When did Deloitte say the accounts weren’t mess?

KA said about 300 times how much work was needed to sort contracts out that were agreed way before his time.

Wed just racked up £180m worth of paper debt and was facing insolvency due to severe mismanagement from those is charge. I really don’t know how you can dispute this.

Gartside had company after company registered at bolton and subsequently dissolved. There was another lass with he same who bailed at the first sign of shit.

It was a basket case that nobody wanted to touch. 

 

My reply was to someone else Gonzo, I did however quote your piece about a Forensic audit but I’ve never said your implying anything illegal 

Whilst your not indicating something illegal the conspiracy theories around PG’s running of the club did do. I just can’t see it, if there was something illegal going on the many audits and furensic audits would have uncovered it and been compelled to report it surely 

If the theory is that PG was setting up companies registered at the ground, to take money from the club then I also doubt this as well. Again it would have been pulled up in a decent audit. That and I don’t think ED was that stupid to allow someone to essentially steal from him on an industrial scale from under his own nose 

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3 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

My reply was to someone else Gonzo, I did however quote your piece about a Forensic audit but I’ve never said your implying anything illegal 

Whilst your not indicating something illegal the conspiracy theories around PG’s running of the club did do. I just can’t see it, if there was something illegal going on the many audits and furensic audits would have uncovered it and been compelled to report it surely 

If the theory is that PG was setting up companies registered at the ground, to take money from the club then I also doubt this as well. Again it would have been pulled up in a decent audit. That and I don’t think ED was that stupid to allow someone to essentially steal from him on an industrial scale from under his own nose 

Fair enough mate but I like others believe PG sailed ridiculously close to the wind.

He was nailed by panorama and should’ve been nailed in court by that pissed up agent. Even the judge said the figures we were paying out were eye watering. It was all about kick backs imo. Same with the astronomical contracts handed out elsewhere to companies across the board.

We were paying well over the odds for everything. 

A lot of ED debts was also made up of loans to club made against player evaluations etc which of course we also well over the odds.

It was a shambles that nearly saw us go under. 

I don’t envy anyone having to go in and sort that lot out and somehow manage to balance the books.

KA went in and stopped everything and went through every single outgoing and contract with a fine tooth comb helped with a forensic accountant firm. That’s why your carpet cleaners and joiners for the suite refuebs and such didn’t get paid. It upset a lot of folk but it was a necessary evil. 

PG was as bent as they come, and on whole had bolton at heart. But it He fluttered everything in the pot away and lined his own pockets along the way and left one sorry mess behind. Hence like I said before, nobody would touch us with a barge pole. 

 

 

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