Wanderlust Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Sluffy said: Eddie was the beneficial owner of Fildraw Private Trust which is based in Bermuda and Moonshift Investment Limited thought to be registered in the British Virgin Islands of which Eddie had a 'beneficial' interest in - so in other words he does have some rights to profits from the company but he might not even be the owner of it, was brought into provide a line of credit of over £100m into the club. All this offshore business seemed a bit murky and beyond my depth of knowledge in the subject that all I could do was to accept it at face value. I have found a link to a report on this but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work any more. The link below is to Nuts where a poster copied and pasted a chunk of the original link out. Hope in makes more sense to others. https://forum.boltonnuts.co.uk/t12393-accounting-geniuses#267136 As I commented at the time, whatever the interpretation of the "ownership" of these companies it was obvious the nature of the tax vehicle was somewhat irrelevant. They/he lent us money and then wrote off the debt. "Beneficial interest" in a company simply means having significant financial investment in a company you don't technically own, even if all the money in it is yours - and the whole point in setting up an offshore company in a resident's name (probably the bank or investment company) is that they are entitled to local taxation rates whereas you as e.g. a Brit are not. So you pay your profits to the offshore company for "services" leaving you with no profit to pay tax on here, and they pay the local rate on that money. Which in BVI is zero. You just have to slip them a few bob for providing the service instead of paying gazillions to the IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felgate Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I think the only conceivable reason why the Chinese consortium are interested in The Trotters is because 2019 is the year of the pig... All linking nicely with a return for Spam Allardyce... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lofthouse Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Tommy Banks said: It’s gonna be a long painful summer It’s been painful since Sam left in 2007, so what’s a few more months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderlust Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 First things first. We haven't got a buyer yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowack Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 No way on earth is Allardyce coming back to manage Bolton, I think we all know that. Hon. President would maybe appeal to him but not in any other capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Anderson to take the hotel? I'm surprised that this seems to have gone under the radar of most people up to now. I've just posted this over on Nuts - Interesting! As I mentioned before secured creditors charged against a specific asset can appoint an Administrator to take possession of that asset on default of their settlement. Looks to me that Ken and Michael James are going to battle it out for the hotel (both have secured charges set against it which are now in default) because Fildraw have apparently not covered the hotel in their appointment of Administrators! "Appleton and Miller will take charge of parent company Burnden Leisure Limited and the Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Company. The Whites Hotel does not fall under their control, however, and could be placed into the hands of a separate administrator by one of the Qualifying Floating Charge Holders, local businessman Michael James, or even Anderson himself". https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17637661.bolton-wanderers-administrator-time-is-now-of-the-essence/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Anderson to take the hotel? I'm surprised that this seems to have gone under the radar of most people up to now. I've just posted this over on Nuts - Interesting! As I mentioned before secured creditors charged against a specific asset can appoint an Administrator to take possession of that asset on default of their settlement. Looks to me that Ken and Michael James are going to battle it out for the hotel (both have secured charges set against it which are now in default) because Fildraw have apparently not covered the hotel in their appointment of Administrators! "Appleton and Miller will take charge of parent company Burnden Leisure Limited and the Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Company. The Whites Hotel does not fall under their control, however, and could be placed into the hands of a separate administrator by one of the Qualifying Floating Charge Holders, local businessman Michael James, or even Anderson himself". https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17637661.bolton-wanderers-administrator-time-is-now-of-the-essence/ It says that James or Anderson will appoint an administrator...not "take".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingindian Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Nowack said: No way on earth is Allardyce coming back to manage Bolton, I think we all know that. Hon. President would maybe appeal to him but not in any other capacity. he did say he would come back but only if the new owners showed ambition and not as manager. so im thinking if he did and thats a big if it would be director of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyStardust Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Anderson to take the hotel? I'm surprised that this seems to have gone under the radar of most people up to now. I've just posted this over on Nuts - Interesting! As I mentioned before secured creditors charged against a specific asset can appoint an Administrator to take possession of that asset on default of their settlement. Looks to me that Ken and Michael James are going to battle it out for the hotel (both have secured charges set against it which are now in default) because Fildraw have apparently not covered the hotel in their appointment of Administrators! "Appleton and Miller will take charge of parent company Burnden Leisure Limited and the Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Company. The Whites Hotel does not fall under their control, however, and could be placed into the hands of a separate administrator by one of the Qualifying Floating Charge Holders, local businessman Michael James, or even Anderson himself". https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17637661.bolton-wanderers-administrator-time-is-now-of-the-essence/ Are fildraw owed by the hotel ? If not, they can't place it in admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingindian Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said: Are fildraw owed by the hotel ? If not, they can't place it in admin. will new buyers be getting hotel aswell or are they selling seperate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said: It says that James or Anderson will appoint an administrator...not "take".... Thank you I can read. The hotel is a limited company and as such is an entirely separate legal entity than the club, and Burnden Leisure, even though it does come under the umbrella of the companies of Burnden Leisure itself. It has it's own Directors for example. As such it is free to be sold off, merged, closed down or have its assets ceased by a secured creditor on default. This is exactly what BluMarble were doing when they threatened to cease the assets of the hotel to clear their debt - which as it was £5m could only mean taking control of the hotel and settling the difference if the hotel value being greater than £5m. Anderson merely replaced BM's charge on the hotel (when it had been settled) with one of his own. To answer Ziggy's point above, it is significant that Fildraw has deliberately excluded the hotel from their Administration as it was exactly the same set up as the club and Burnden Leisure in that 'Moonshift' was shown as the charge holder of all of them. If Moonshift's charge on the club and BL can be moved to Fildraw in order to appoint an Administrator for them, then no doubt it could have been done for the hotel too. That's my reasoning anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, sleepingindian said: will new buyers be getting hotel as well or are they selling separate As it appears to stand at the moment, the hotel doesn't seem to be under Administration, so I guess it could be bought directly by a purchaser if they so desired, not forgetting they would need to deal with the winding up petition on it first (and any others creditors who may piggy back on to it). More likely though they will wait for Administration - which I would imagine wouldn't involve the artificial levels of settling with their creditors set by the EFL for league clubs - because it is separate from the football side of the business - even if it is part of the stadium itself. There would be nothing to prevent a potential buyer purchasing both the club and hotel from the two separate Administrations though, if that was their intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Banks Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 FFS why is nothing with the clubs finances simple. All the previous shenanigans of the owners are a disgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radcliffe white Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Probably been mentioned but can’t be arsed scrolling back the deduction is confirmed for next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 The only way Sam comes anywhere near the gaff is in a DoF capacity and the ching a lings as owners chucking their Yen about Any long term, Financially stable business model where the club needs to rebuild and live within its means and he’ll be nowhere near it he loves the club but not as much as he loves himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBW Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Does anyone know anyone that works at the club? Have they been told any information today as the adminstrators move in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 minute ago, BIGBW said: Does anyone know anyone that works at the club? Have they been told any information today as the adminstrators move in? Meeting at 2.30 today with all staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter HomerJay Posted May 14, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, sleepingindian said: he did say he would come back but only if the new owners showed ambition and not as manager. so im thinking if he did and thats a big if it would be director of football. yes, i heard him say he would be interested in that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnestTurnip Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 This happened somewhere I used to work at and they called everyone in to the warehouse and some young lad in his early 20s who hadn't even bothered to do his tie up properly told us we were all redundant almost with a smile on his face. Will never know if a straight tie would have made the day better for us but knowing someone who works at the hotel and hasn't been getting paid I hope it goes better for them this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingindian Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, HomerJay said: yes, i heard him say he would be interested in that role. it would be ideal. but will need a strong manager. to get us mid table or play off. or keep us out of relagation. 4 teams go down from L1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted May 14, 2019 Moderators Share Posted May 14, 2019 Just now, sleepingindian said: it would be ideal. but will need a strong manager. to get us mid table or play off. or keep us out of relagation. 4 teams go down from L1 Phil Brown obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazBob Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Big Sam can fuck off. If he comes back he's coming back because he'll get paid shit loads and it's convenient for him. It won't be because of a love for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomRepWanderer Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 If it's just the 12 points deducted I can see us being well out of the bottom 4 by Christmas, all depends on good recruitment and strong management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepingindian Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 under big sam he would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Banks Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 First thing is to ensure we still have a club to support. To be honest I’m not totally convinced that we know the size of the debt, and who owes what to who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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