Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Media: we want the death numbers govt: ok media: we don’t believe the numbers govt: ok possibly they need cleansing but you asked for them so we will pull them so no more confusion. media: why are you no longer reporting Death numbers next weeks news headlines HIHF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Escobarp said: Media: we want the death numbers govt: ok media: we don’t believe the numbers govt: ok possibly they need cleansing but you asked for them so we will pull them so no more confusion. media: why are you no longer reporting Death numbers next weeks news headlines HIHF Everyone : can we not have accurate numbers ? Govt : errr Everyone : Please not to compare with everywhere else so we can see how things are improving. Govt : Err Escobarp : Blame the press Ani : 😁😘😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ani said: Everyone : can we not have accurate numbers ? Govt : errr Everyone : Please not to compare with everywhere else so we can see how things are improving. Govt : Err Escobarp : Blame the press Ani : 😁😘😂 I’m blaming nobody. I’m saying I don’t see the issue with them stopping if they feel the need to. Media have been complaining as the usual suspects on here that they’re inaccurate so eh the moaning when they are stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Escobarp said: I’m blaming nobody. I’m saying I don’t see the issue with them stopping if they feel the need to. Media have been complaining as the usual suspects on here that they’re inaccurate so eh the moaning when they are stopped? I think you're a bit confused about who's doing the complaining. Anyway, the numbers are still being reported. 40 deaths and 800+ infections today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Tombwfc said: I think you're a bit confused about who's doing the complaining. Anyway, the numbers are still being reported. 40 deaths and 800+ infections today. I think I’m not confused but cheers. Think you will find for weeks and weeks people on here and in the media have been claiming the numbers are undercooked tell me im wrong? now the government say yep they may be inaccurate it’s an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 A&E waiting times used to be a popular statistic to knock the NHS/government. How they doing these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Escobarp said: I think I’m not confused but cheers. Think you will find for weeks and weeks people on here and in the media have been claiming the numbers are undercooked tell me im wrong? now the government say yep they may be inaccurate it’s an issue. If you were running a business or a project where every call is based on the science backed up by numbers and the people at the top of the tree now say the numbers are dodgy it would undermine any credibility of those people. Might explain why they are not following the science anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ani said: If you were running a business or a project where every call is based on the science backed up by numbers and the people at the top of the tree now say the numbers are dodgy it would undermine any credibility of those people. Might explain why they are not following the science anymore. I understand why they have stopped. And maybe they were given fears about the accuracy earlier from their advisors but chose to ignore it. Who knows. Moaning about it know is almost as silly as comparing our numbers to other countries. in fact scrap that it’s not, as that’s just utterly fucking stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelyfeet Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Catalonia on semi lockdown for 2 weeks. 4 weeks after they were lifted. Could be like this on and off for months now it seems. Supposed to be going in October, hope its sorted by then. Not counting my chickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, Escobarp said: I think I’m not confused but cheers. Think you will find for weeks and weeks people on here and in the media have been claiming the numbers are undercooked tell me im wrong? now the government say yep they may be inaccurate it’s an issue. This has come about because some bloke from Oxford Uni pointed out that it could include people who tested positive for the virus months ago and later died of something else entirely. He also said he thought it'd account for about 1,000 (out of 45,000+). Happy for you to show me examples on here of the 'usual suspects' complaining that they are overstating death numbers. As for comparing numbers with other countries, I'd refer you back to Patrick Vallance's comments from earlier in the week. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-outcome-patrick-vallance-mps-a9622671.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelyfeet Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tombwfc said: This has come about because some bloke from Oxford Uni pointed out that it could include people who tested positive for the virus months ago and later died of something else entirely. He also said he thought it'd account for about 1,000 (out of 45,000+). Happy for you to show me examples on here of the 'usual suspects' complaining that they are overstating death numbers. As for comparing numbers with other countries, I'd refer you back to Patrick Vallance's comments from earlier in the week. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-outcome-patrick-vallance-mps-a9622671.html They count them up to 28 days after discharge from hospital elsewhere, seems like we haven't been doing this. Will be interesting to see how many there is, bet it doesn't make a massive difference to the total, but if it's making a difference to daily numbers now that we are fairly low they should be highlighted Edited July 18, 2020 by peelyfeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tombwfc said: This has come about because some bloke from Oxford Uni pointed out that it could include people who tested positive for the virus months ago and later died of something else entirely. He also said he thought it'd account for about 1,000 (out of 45,000+). Happy for you to show me examples on here of the 'usual suspects' complaining that they are overstating death numbers. As for comparing numbers with other countries, I'd refer you back to Patrick Vallance's comments from earlier in the week. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-outcome-patrick-vallance-mps-a9622671.html I said undercooked so why would I show examples of people saying the opposite? and yep read that but missed the bit where he says it’s absolutely the right thing to compare our numbers to other countries as the methodologies are identical. Can you highlight that bit for me as I missed it? Otherwise I fail to see what your point is? Again Edited July 18, 2020 by Escobarp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morizio Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Escobarp said: I’m blaming nobody. I’m saying I don’t see the issue with them stopping if they feel the need to. Media have been complaining as the usual suspects on here that they’re inaccurate so eh the moaning when they are stopped? Mate, why are you defending those who don't actually give a shit about you. If you don't believe me, take 5 and watch what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, Morizio said: Mate, why are you defending those who don't actually give a shit about you. If you don't believe me, take 5 and watch what happens. Defending who exactly? Only people I defend are my family and friends. Not politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Escobarp said: I said undercooked so why would I show examples of people saying the opposite? and yep read that but missed the bit where he says it’s absolutely the right thing to compare our numbers to other countries as the methodologies are identical. Can you highlight that bit for me as I missed it? Otherwise I fail to see what your point is? Again This is where I think you're getting mixed up. A professor from Oxford Uni says he thinks PHE have been overinflating the figures to a fairly small degree. The DHSC stop reporting the figures on their website to investigate. PHE are continuing to publish them as usual. What that has to do with MSM, the usual suspects, magnificent seven etc. etc. only you know really. Esco: "Moaning about it know is almost as silly as comparing our numbers to other countries. in fact scrap that it’s not, as that’s just utterly fucking stupid." Vallance: "It's clear that the outcome has not been good in the UK, I think you can be absolutely clear about that. 'It is clear you can see a band of countries that have done less well in the temperate zone. Countries that are very well connected internationally, countries that have got population structures of a certain type." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tombwfc said: This is where I think you're getting mixed up. A professor from Oxford Uni says he thinks PHE have been overinflating the figures to a fairly small degree. The DHSC stop reporting the figures on their website to investigate. PHE are continuing to publish them as usual. What that has to do with MSM, the usual suspects, magnificent seven etc. etc. only you know really. Esco: "Moaning about it know is almost as silly as comparing our numbers to other countries. in fact scrap that it’s not, as that’s just utterly fucking stupid." Vallance: "It's clear that the outcome has not been good in the UK, I think you can be absolutely clear about that. 'It is clear you can see a band of countries that have done less well in the temperate zone. Countries that are very well connected internationally, countries that have got population structures of a certain type." Yep just as I thought. Thanks for confirming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 11 hours ago, Escobarp said: I understand why they have stopped. And maybe they were given fears about the accuracy earlier from their advisors but chose to ignore it. Who knows. Moaning about it know is almost as silly as comparing our numbers to other countries. in fact scrap that it’s not, as that’s just utterly fucking stupid. Your determination to excuse the Govt is fucking stupid. Which given you are clearly not stupid is baffling. The Govt started off with the international comparisons in every briefing. They stopped as the comparison was unfair. They stopped at the same time as their numbers showed we were doing badly. They had the science advisors at every briefing as we were driven by the science. They produced a chart that mapped how we would leave lock down based on the science and R rate dropping. That chart is no longer presented but we have continued to leave lockdown. They have presented numbers every day that say how many people have died. They are stopping this as the number they have used every day might not be accurate. You know as well as I do that any project that is being based on data that you verify your source data as the very first thing because if that is wrong and is driving decisions you will make bad calls. So if the Govt is using incorrect data that is a fuck up. At least by using the same data source you can map progress in terms of numbers increasing/decreasing. Not perfect but better than no guide until accurate data is available. Daily cases of infections have been steady for a few days now which will lead eventually to deaths going the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Ani said: Your determination to excuse the Govt is fucking stupid. Which given you are clearly not stupid is baffling. The Govt started off with the international comparisons in every briefing. They stopped as the comparison was unfair. They stopped at the same time as their numbers showed we were doing badly. They had the science advisors at every briefing as we were driven by the science. They produced a chart that mapped how we would leave lock down based on the science and R rate dropping. That chart is no longer presented but we have continued to leave lockdown. They have presented numbers every day that say how many people have died. They are stopping this as the number they have used every day might not be accurate. You know as well as I do that any project that is being based on data that you verify your source data as the very first thing because if that is wrong and is driving decisions you will make bad calls. So if the Govt is using incorrect data that is a fuck up. At least by using the same data source you can map progress in terms of numbers increasing/decreasing. Not perfect but better than no guide until accurate data is available. Daily cases of infections have been steady for a few days now which will lead eventually to deaths going the same way. I Am not excusing anybody. So the inference that I am is fucking stupid which you clearly aren’t hope you enjoyed you’re night out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Escobarp said: I Am not excusing anybody. So the inference that I am is fucking stupid which you clearly aren’t hope you enjoyed you’re night out Was good to be out. Only 5 of us sat in our allocated place. Service at table. 5-6 beers. Not sure how it would work if you want to go ‘out out’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 19, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2020 14 hours ago, peelyfeet said: They count them up to 28 days after discharge from hospital elsewhere, seems like we haven't been doing this. Will be interesting to see how many there is, bet it doesn't make a massive difference to the total, but if it's making a difference to daily numbers now that we are fairly low they should be highlighted Exactly. Front loading of high death figures initially means that the overall numbers probably won't be affected significantly. However current numbers, and those going forward could be. These figures may be playing a part in adopted measures and also how other nations view our suitability for travel etc. It would also make sense to have all of the UK using the same counting method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Ani said: Was good to be out. Only 5 of us sat in our allocated place. Service at table. 5-6 beers. Not sure how it would work if you want to go ‘out out’. I think it will evolve as you would expect as places get used to it, that for me sounds about my limit of what I would want to be doing just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted July 19, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2020 7/10 Maybe not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Watching that is frightening and embarrassing. Even more so is that is 7/10 for some on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted July 19, 2020 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2020 58 minutes ago, gonzo said: You're not meant to compare us to other countries, that's pointless If you think doing so explains why our numbers are high it's because we're over stating our numbers, and others are under stating them It's all about the economy anyway, what ever else happens is determined by the responsibility and common sense of the public and their interpretation of the rules Wait till it's all over before any analysis or judgement 7/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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