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This will be my last post in this thread but here’s a story. When I was a kid I played football and I was decent, got a few player of the year trophies, I was fuckin rapid and scored goals for fu

Woah baby...Im not angry!  You say  "Thats where those boos come from. Misaligned cultural battles." Im saying they dont, and know for an absolute fact they dont. Ive been over why they

Help! Help! Somebody please argue with me cos I hate being ignored 😁

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Just now, crawshawbooth said:

why the fuck do we to stand for the Spanish train crash

not acting the cock , but my point is why is it always the football fan the represents the nation

when the fucking nation hates us anyway

You told me to fuck off. That's acting the cock in my opinion.

Anyroad, you crack on getting angry at minutes silence.

Good to have a hobby and all that👍

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4 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

You told me to fuck off. That's acting the cock in my opinion.

Anyroad, you crack on getting angry at minutes silence.

Good to have a hobby and all that👍

checked back and there was a fuck off in there

apologies mate # occasionally drink has been taken

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3 hours ago, embankment said:

If i get the chance to go into the stadium.

I will applaud the players as they run out.

Then go back under the stand , while the charade is played out .

When the match starts i will return to my seat.

British diplomacy at its best.

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This sums up the whole issue better than I ever could. As personal interest I live two minutes walk from Millwall's training ground, as Barney says here, it is an issue not just for the football club but for South East London itself in a incredibly diverse area of the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/07/taking-a-knee-is-a-sign-to-minorities-they-are-welcome-at-football-grounds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

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7 hours ago, Traf said:

Very thought provoking that, @Rudy I can't imagine what it has been and will be like for you and your family.

The only thing in your statement that I might not quite agree with is whether George Floyd's death was entirely racist.

GF was well know to the guy who killed him and they'd worked together at some point, hadn't they? Isn't there a possibility that it was a personal thing that got out of hand and wasn't helped by the fact he was black. Also, FWIW the coppers who stood by on that day are equally culpable.

Prejudice in any form has no part in society and needs eradicating . 

They'd worked at the same place but no suggestion they'd worked the same shift or knew each other.

It was a random stop where the suspect was offering no resistance yet still ended up on the floor with a knee on his neck.  That could be typical of some US over aggressive policing but the claim is, where it's a black suspect, this kind of aggression is more frequently used than when it's a white suspect. 

Amen to your last 2 sentences 👍

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8 hours ago, Rudy said:

This will be my last post in this thread but here’s a story.

When I was a kid I played football and I was decent, got a few player of the year trophies, I was fuckin rapid and scored goals for fun. One game a lad called me a fuckin wog, it got to me. I can still picture the lad now.

This happened quite a bit, and everytime it got to me, I had managers who did nothing.

Growing up when I attended the wanderers matches I loved it, but I witnessed racism that hurt, I got it delivered to myself from home and away fans. 
 

That takes serious strength to continue to go to matches.

I became a professional football coach and I’ve been on the end of racist abuse as a coach, even by fans of the club I work for. 
 

Having a child now who may witness and suffer racist abuse it breaks my heart, I sometimes think you know what I’d die before she got the same treatment as I have done.

Seeing any person be hurt or killed because of the colour of their skin, it takes me back to when I was a kid. It hurts.

Seeing any player suffer racist abuse, takes me back. Breaks my heart.

How in 2020 is this still happening?

Then George Floyd is killed, and I just think how is this happening because of his skin colour, I look at my daughter, she’s the most amazing little thing but she’s mixed race and she might suffer abuse. It upset me, it took me back to my racist experiences. 
Then I see players of all creeds and colours kneeling in front of the worlds audience, saying enough is enough we want equality.

 
It send a sense of pride and emotion through me, I have lived through racism but we now live in a world where I’m less likely to be taken back to that horrible awful place.

If you are fed up of players kneeling, imagine how fed up how black people are of not feeling equal. 
 

Im out. x

What a fucking great post. One of our own explains why taking a knee is important based on his personal experience. If taking a knee helps Rudy surely we can accept it just for that and even if not 100% supporting the movement can see that there is no need to boo the action.  

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39 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

This sums up the whole issue better than I ever could. As personal interest I live two minutes walk from Millwall's training ground, as Barney says here, it is an issue not just for the football club but for South East London itself in a incredibly diverse area of the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/07/taking-a-knee-is-a-sign-to-minorities-they-are-welcome-at-football-grounds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Some interesting points being made, I appreciate that in this report they have tried to make it absolutely clear that the football protests have absolutely nothing to do with the BLM movement 

However plenty of other major media organisations are still making those links, I posted one from the Times last night...

The 25 year old Antigua and Barbuda player  said that he felt personally disrespected after a section of the crowed booed when both teams took part in an anti-racism gesture in support of the Black Lives Matter movement 

I think that the media need to make it clear that the football protests are in no way linked to the BLM movement because like it or not that movement represents a political protest much more than it does ending racist abuse in sport 

Sounds like Millwall & QPR are going to be wearing kick it out T shirts and linking arms rather than taking a knee (on the whole), I think that should help distance a simple anti racism message away from a wider political one 

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8 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

When you talk about Black People not feeling equal, I’d be keen to know if you think the U.K. is systemically racist? Or is it just isolated incidents of racism that drive it 
 

Still trying to prove a point where there is none to be proven I see. Isolated racist incidents? Did you actually read the post? Societal prejudice is systemic, the fact that not one of Rudy's managers spoke up is systemic racism, its not about shouting racists abuse. That's the connection you continue to fail to make. 

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Just now, birch-chorley said:

Some interesting points being made, I appreciate that in this report they have tried to make it absolutely clear that the football protests have absolutely nothing to do with the BLM movement 

However plenty of other major media organisations are still making those links, I posted one from the Times last night...

The 25 year old Antigua and Barbuda player  said that he felt personally disrespected after a section of the crowed booed when both teams took part in an anti-racism gesture in support of the Black Lives Matter movement 

I think that the media need to make it clear that the football protests are in no way linked to the BLM movement because like it or not that movement represents a political protest much more than it does ending racist abuse in sport 

Sounds like Millwall & QPR are going to be wearing kick it out T shirts and linking arms rather than taking a knee (on the whole), I think that should help distance a simple anti racism message away from a wider political one 

I just fail to see that the link was ever between BLM and the booing, it was an easy cover for people to vent a frustration as what they see as battle for their own value, at the expense of others, in an area - as pointed at in the article - remains ungentrified and incredibly diverse.

Also, I'm pleased it has led to discussion on these issues as difficult and as unpleasant as it maybe, its needed. If only for a heartfelt post like Rudy's to stop a few folks in their tracks and think about how far words and actions carry.

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11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Still trying to prove a point where there is none to be proven I see. Isolated racist incidents? Did you actually read the post? Societal prejudice is systemic, the fact that not one of Rudy's managers spoke up is systemic racism, its not about shouting racists abuse. That's the connection you continue to fail to make. 

I guess it’s down to interpretation of what systemic racism means, for me it’s about Education, healthcare, employment, Welfare etc 

In that regard, I believe we have a fair system, it might need the odd tweak don’t get me wrong but on the whole it’s very reasonable. I certainly don’t think that our system is biased in favour of people with white skin, if it was then why on earth is the average white person so far behind the average U.K. Indian & U.K. Chinese person in every set of data? 

Perhaps I didn’t explain what I meant in my post to Rudy, by isolated I meant more of a non systemic racism, I.e an individual or group of individuals rather than a system. I fully agree that we still have individuals who have racists views but I don’t think it’s ingrained in our system 

I don't think that’s an unreasonable opinion to have 

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13 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I just fail to see that the link was ever between BLM and the booing, it was an easy cover for people to vent a frustration as what they see as battle for their own value, at the expense of others, in an area - as pointed at in the article - remains ungentrified and incredibly diverse.

Also, I'm pleased it has led to discussion on these issues as difficult and as unpleasant as it maybe, its needed. If only for a heartfelt post like Rudy's to stop a few folks in their tracks and think about how far words and actions carry.

We’ve never had an issue with booing anti racism events such as kick it out 

Plenty people in this country will have been very unhappy with the BLM protests this summer as they fundamentally disagree with a lot of the messaging 

Having protests at football games that on the face of it seem to support the BLM movement incite those opposing opinions 

If it’s made absolutely clear that the protests are in no way supportive of the BLM movement then I honestly believe the opposition to the protests goes away 

The media need to give that clarity 

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45 minutes ago, Ani said:

What a fucking great post. One of our own explains why taking a knee is important based on his personal experience. If taking a knee helps Rudy surely we can accept it just for that and even if not 100% supporting the movement can see that there is no need to boo the action.  

If taking a knee helps black people then great, now we have to work out what to do for the other BAME fans, I’m thinking 2 knees for brown folk, a cart wheel for Far East looking folk a bit of river dance for the travelling community. Hopefully we can KO for about 4pm. Maybe at half time we can do something for all the different religions that come to watch us.

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52 minutes ago, Ani said:

What a fucking great post. One of our own explains why taking a knee is important based on his personal experience. If taking a knee helps Rudy surely we can accept it just for that and even if not 100% supporting the movement can see that there is no need to boo the action.  

Indeed, but nah, a bunch of white middle aged blokes know better.

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Sad that Rudy has experienced racism and it should really be sorted by now, however there are lots of other persecuted folk out there, kids subjected to violence at home, wife’s battered by husbands, the world for many is a shite but it’s not rammed down my throat at every sporting occasion, it’s time taking the knee every game was stopped, no issue with a specified day once a season designated to stopping racism but time it was knocked on the head. 

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19 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Sad that Rudy has experienced racism and it should really be sorted by now, however there are lots of other persecuted folk out there, kids subjected to violence at home, wife’s battered by husbands, the world for many is a shite but it’s not rammed down my throat at every sporting occasion, it’s time taking the knee every game was stopped, no issue with a specified day once a season designated to stopping racism but time it was knocked on the head. 

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

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3 minutes ago, DazBob said:

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

Its on tv every day, bbc news, itv news, sky news, it’s at every sky match I watch, it’s saturated coverage, i think folk are very aware of racism, obviously not you though.  

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2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

And there we have it. Another who thinks players kneeling for 5 seconds is "ramming it down his throat ". Jesus H Christ.

Do not get me started on pitch side advertising. Oscar ? Who the fuck are they. 

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9 hours ago, Rudy said:

This will be my last post in this thread but here’s a story.

When I was a kid I played football and I was decent, got a few player of the year trophies, I was fuckin rapid and scored goals for fun. One game a lad called me a fuckin wog, it got to me. I can still picture the lad now.

This happened quite a bit, and everytime it got to me, I had managers who did nothing.

Growing up when I attended the wanderers matches I loved it, but I witnessed racism that hurt, I got it delivered to myself from home and away fans. 
 

That takes serious strength to continue to go to matches.

I became a professional football coach and I’ve been on the end of racist abuse as a coach, even by fans of the club I work for. 
 

Having a child now who may witness and suffer racist abuse it breaks my heart, I sometimes think you know what I’d die before she got the same treatment as I have done.

Seeing any person be hurt or killed because of the colour of their skin, it takes me back to when I was a kid. It hurts.

Seeing any player suffer racist abuse, takes me back. Breaks my heart.

How in 2020 is this still happening?

Then George Floyd is killed, and I just think how is this happening because of his skin colour, I look at my daughter, she’s the most amazing little thing but she’s mixed race and she might suffer abuse. It upset me, it took me back to my racist experiences. 
Then I see players of all creeds and colours kneeling in front of the worlds audience, saying enough is enough we want equality.

 
It send a sense of pride and emotion through me, I have lived through racism but we now live in a world where I’m less likely to be taken back to that horrible awful place.

If you are fed up of players kneeling, imagine how fed up how black people are of not feeling equal. 
 

Im out. x

Tremendous post👍Great insight and I feel ashamed that you have had to endure that as a Wanderers fan. 

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