Meanwhile in Israel

[wanderer1984]

17 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Either way.

We can definitely rely on the IDF, Hamas and Me to give us an accurate account of how this bit pans out.

 

[wanderer1984]

23 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

But but but..

I thought it was just a hospital with sick people and incubator babies.

Just who is shooting at the Israeli soldiers?

Let's hope they can evacuate the sick and those in need.

[Tombwfc]

9 hours ago, TM Trotter said:

Israel had to respond. Of course they did! But where's the line - where do these horrors stop? Is 8 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli enough of a trade for Netanyahu?

If it *isn't* enough, then boy oh boy, he is hurtling towards a genocide. 

 

 

If you think the goal is purely to kill as many Palestinians as possible, then that's already genocide isn't it?

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Over 100x more civilians have died in the various US wars on terror than were killed in 9/11. Whatever you think of those, surely nobody believes the US were right to go in but should've stopped when the number of people killed (innocent or otherwise) covered their own losses.

[MickyD]

50 minutes ago, Spider said:

You’d have thought the sick and injured that are in a hospital the IDF have openly targeted for 3 weeks would be moved by Hamas.

You’re assuming Hamas are fair-thinking human beings. They aren’t! If they were they’d do all you suggest and then wave white flags in submission for the good of their country folks.

Ain’t happening until there’s only the Chief Imams left. 

[London Wanderer]

45 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

 

Haha 

very good

Tbf, I think we can all be 99.9 % sure that Hamas have something in place there.

Question is if it’s worth all the deaths so far and if it will ease future conflict.

[royal white]

53 minutes ago, Spider said:

You’d have thought the sick and injured that are in a hospital the IDF have openly targeted for 3 weeks would be moved by Hamas.

Im sure they’re not covering anything up.

I reckon if they’d asked nicely, Hamas would have been allowed to move them all to safety first - even into Israel.

I understand that they “shouldn’t have to”, but being practical, they knew it was coming, so maybe they don’t really give a fuck about them.

Its just a thought.

Don’t be silly, IDF are deliberately targeting the kids in the Hospital. Our very own world affairs correspondent LW is on the ground and has first hand int! 

[BobyBrno]

What chance is there of believing anything when there is misinformation like this. 

 

[Spider]

4 minutes ago, royal white said:

Don’t be silly, IDF are deliberately targeting the kids in the Hospital. Our very own world affairs correspondent LW is on the ground and has first hand int! 

I’m sure the Israelis would rather not kill civilians, but Hamas are cowardy custards and don’t mind either way

[Zico]

13 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

Tbf, people are using the Israeli government as an excuse for their antisemitism. 

I think some folk are using hamas as an excuse for their islamaphobia and to justify what Israel are doing 

seen enough to think the whole situation has gone from Hamas v Israel Government to pro muslim/anti jew v anti Muslim

Certainly where the protests and marches are concerned 

 

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, royal white said:

Don’t be silly, IDF are deliberately targeting the kids in the Hospital. Our very own world affairs correspondent LW is on the ground and has first hand int! 

Our humanitarian soldier ♥️

Who also “couldn’t give a flying fck”

 And “knows nothing of the conflict”

 But loves joining in 😊

[royal white]

10 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Our humanitarian soldier ♥️

Who also “couldn’t give a flying fck”

 And “knows nothing of the conflict”

 But loves joining in 😊

Absolutely correct. But as rough as you may think a classroom is, I know more than you will ever know about working in these types of areas. 👍 but hey what would that matter 😉

[London Wanderer]

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

Absolutely correct. But as rough as you may think a classroom is, I know more than you will ever know about working in these types of areas. 👍 but hey what would that matter 😉

👍

 of course it matters. As long you were never given the job of advising mothers with premature babies 😉

Edited November 15, 2023 by London Wanderer

[London Wanderer]

40 minutes ago, Zico said:

I think some folk are using hamas as an excuse for their islamaphobia and to justify what Israel are doing 

seen enough to think the whole situation has gone from Hamas v Israel Government to pro muslim/anti jew v anti Muslim

Certainly where the protests and marches are concerned 

 

When you unpick this Israeli government, there are some proper nut jobs in amongst the top jobs. Some hardline ultra Zionists who are hell bent on the destruction of Palestine. These people hold a lot of power and there is no doubt that they will be using Hamas as an excuse to further their aims.

[royal white]

3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

👍

 of course it matters. As long you were never given the job of advising mothers with premature babies 😉

I haven’t been commenting on the history or the politics behind the conflict. Just the thunder cunts over here demonstrating and trying to explain to COD experts that it’s not a computer game being played over there. 
 

So no it doesn’t matter. 👍

[Not in Crawley]

45 minutes ago, Zico said:

I think some folk are using hamas as an excuse for their islamaphobia and to justify what Israel are doing 

seen enough to think the whole situation has gone from Hamas v Israel Government to pro muslim/anti jew v anti Muslim

Certainly where the protests and marches are concerned 

 

Yesterday's News Agent's podcast was a good examination of this. The fact that the far right have somehow become arbiters of justice but really it's a way to outwardly display an anti-Muslim message under the blanket of something else and that yes, there is abhorrent anti-semitism in the ranks of the demonstrators; but to equally equate the two is incorrect given the numbers on the creasefire protest and the right-wing demonstration. Similarly there were jewish people on the protest last weekend - I personally knew some who went (you can be Jewish and uncomfortable about Israel you know) - but also the escalation (and the stuff coming out from unhelpful planks like Corybn) that does make Jewish communities feel fearful is very real and needs to be addressed without hesitation, from people stating all Israel comes out with is proganda, to the frankly disgusting placards fearing Nazi symbolism. As I say I live opposite a Synagogue and actaully they have had security for a couple of years now, last couple of weeks on a Saturday morning they have also have a police car outside. To say that's just because of the protests isn't correct, but a dialling down of tensions - which should be led by our politicians needs to happen. That Braverman's rhetoric isn't inflame tensions too much gives me my continued faith that the people of this country are overall accepting, rational and reasonable people who don't cede to dog whistle extremism from either side.

The likes of the FLA and the EDL however, do not represent the silent majority or represent the flag they are so keen to stand in front of. Minority thugs that also need to be dealt with.

[London Wanderer]

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

I haven’t been commenting on the history or the politics behind the conflict. Just the thunder cunts over here demonstrating and trying to explain to COD experts that it’s not a computer game being played over there. 
 

So no it doesn’t matter. 👍

Thunder cunts ❤️
 

Nobody is denying that it’s not incredibly difficult for soldiers over there. But that doesn’t excuse war crimes.

Nor does it excuse the atrocities the Israeli government have committed in the West Bank. If anything these policies only put their soliders and citizens at more risk. Their own defence minister warned them earlier in the year that things would escalate if they didn’t stop bulldozing innocent people’s homes. Every international organisation recognises this is illegal.

 And that does not, in any way, excuse Hamas.

 The history is vital. It’s all connected. The history, the fighting conditions, the misinformation etc. can’t understand one without understanding the other. 

[Cheese]

 

[royal white]

55 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Thunder cunts ❤️
 

Nobody is denying that it’s not incredibly difficult for soldiers over there. But that doesn’t excuse war crimes.

Nor does it excuse the atrocities the Israeli government have committed in the West Bank. If anything these policies only put their soliders and citizens at more risk. Their own defence minister warned them earlier in the year that things would escalate if they didn’t stop bulldozing innocent people’s homes. Every international organisation recognises this is illegal.

 And that does not, in any way, excuse Hamas.

 The history is vital. It’s all connected. The history, the fighting conditions, the misinformation etc. can’t understand one without understanding the other. 

The fighting conditions can be applied to any theatre around the world. This is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. 

[Not in Crawley]

He's right y'know!

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/10/bodyguard-police-fighting-urinating-seats-ugly-new-side-of-theatre-audiences

[globaldiver]

2 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Thunder cunts ❤️
 

Nobody is denying that it’s not incredibly difficult for soldiers over there. But that doesn’t excuse war crimes.

Nor does it excuse the atrocities the Israeli government have committed in the West Bank. If anything these policies only put their soliders and citizens at more risk. Their own defence minister warned them earlier in the year that things would escalate if they didn’t stop bulldozing innocent people’s homes. Every international organisation recognises this is illegal.

 And that does not, in any way, excuse Hamas.

 The history is vital. It’s all connected. The history, the fighting conditions, the misinformation etc. can’t understand one without understanding the other. 

Have Israel committed war crimes?

[London Wanderer]

37 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

He's right y'know!

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/10/bodyguard-police-fighting-urinating-seats-ugly-new-side-of-theatre-audiences

 Haha

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

What chance is there of believing anything when there is misinformation like this. 

 

They quote Reuters as saying that on the clip in fairness, but I've long given up on a clear picture being portrayed anywhere. 

Fog of war etc, bias etc etc.

It's pretty clear Israel is going to do what it said it would and destroy Hamas and its infrastructure, and until that's been achieved then the "story" will just continue.

 

[London Wanderer]

14 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Have Israel committed war crimes?

Aye, widely agreed through multiple investigations by international bodies. The sources are everywhere.

 

“Since 2006, the Human Rights Council has mandated several fact finding missions into violations of international law, including war crimes, in the OPT, including a permanent, ongoing inquiry since May of 2021.[10][11] Since 2021, the ICC has had an active investigation into Israeli war crimes committed in the OPT.[12][13] Israel has refused to cooperate with the investigations”..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

 What would you call the bulldozing of innocent family homes on their land? Just a crime?

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, royal white said:

The fighting conditions can be applied to any theatre around the world. This is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. 

The IDF evict whole villages of innocent people. Sometimes in the most brutal of conditions.

There are no ‘fighting conditions’ to contend with when these place 👍

[BobyBrno]

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

They quote Reuters as saying that on the clip in fairness, but I've long given up on a clear picture being portrayed anywhere. 

Fog of war etc, bias etc etc.

It's pretty clear Israel is going to do what it said it would and destroy Hamas and its infrastructure, and until that's been achieved then the "story" will just continue.

 

They’ve now issued an on air apology.