Is it kicking off big time or is this just everyday stuff they deal with or a bit of both?

 

23 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

But but but..

I thought it was just a hospital with sick people and incubator babies.

Just who is shooting at the Israeli soldiers?

Let's hope they can evacuate the sick and those in need.

9 hours ago, TM Trotter said:

Israel had to respond. Of course they did! But where's the line - where do these horrors stop? Is 8 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli enough of a trade for Netanyahu?

If it *isn't* enough, then boy oh boy, he is hurtling towards a genocide. 

 

 

If you think the goal is purely to kill as many Palestinians as possible, then that's already genocide isn't it?

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Over 100x more civilians have died in the various US wars on terror than were killed in 9/11. Whatever you think of those, surely nobody believes the US were right to go in but should've stopped when the number of people killed (innocent or otherwise) covered their own losses.

50 minutes ago, Spider said:

You’d have thought the sick and injured that are in a hospital the IDF have openly targeted for 3 weeks would be moved by Hamas.

You’re assuming Hamas are fair-thinking human beings. They aren’t! If they were they’d do all you suggest and then wave white flags in submission for the good of their country folks.

Ain’t happening until there’s only the Chief Imams left. 

45 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

 

Haha 

very good

Tbf, I think we can all be 99.9 % sure that Hamas have something in place there.

Question is if it’s worth all the deaths so far and if it will ease future conflict.

53 minutes ago, Spider said:

You’d have thought the sick and injured that are in a hospital the IDF have openly targeted for 3 weeks would be moved by Hamas.

Im sure they’re not covering anything up.

I reckon if they’d asked nicely, Hamas would have been allowed to move them all to safety first - even into Israel.

I understand that they “shouldn’t have to”, but being practical, they knew it was coming, so maybe they don’t really give a fuck about them.

Its just a thought.

Don’t be silly, IDF are deliberately targeting the kids in the Hospital. Our very own world affairs correspondent LW is on the ground and has first hand int! 

What chance is there of believing anything when there is misinformation like this. 

 

4 minutes ago, royal white said:

Don’t be silly, IDF are deliberately targeting the kids in the Hospital. Our very own world affairs correspondent LW is on the ground and has first hand int! 

I’m sure the Israelis would rather not kill civilians, but Hamas are cowardy custards and don’t mind either way

13 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

Tbf, people are using the Israeli government as an excuse for their antisemitism. 

I think some folk are using hamas as an excuse for their islamaphobia and to justify what Israel are doing 

seen enough to think the whole situation has gone from Hamas v Israel Government to pro muslim/anti jew v anti Muslim

Certainly where the protests and marches are concerned 

 

1 hour ago, royal white said:

Don’t be silly, IDF are deliberately targeting the kids in the Hospital. Our very own world affairs correspondent LW is on the ground and has first hand int! 

Our humanitarian soldier ♥️

Who also “couldn’t give a flying fck”

 And “knows nothing of the conflict”

 But loves joining in 😊

10 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Our humanitarian soldier ♥️

Who also “couldn’t give a flying fck”

 And “knows nothing of the conflict”

 But loves joining in 😊

Absolutely correct. But as rough as you may think a classroom is, I know more than you will ever know about working in these types of areas. 👍 but hey what would that matter 😉

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

Absolutely correct. But as rough as you may think a classroom is, I know more than you will ever know about working in these types of areas. 👍 but hey what would that matter 😉

👍

 of course it matters. As long you were never given the job of advising mothers with premature babies 😉

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by London Wanderer

40 minutes ago, Zico said:

I think some folk are using hamas as an excuse for their islamaphobia and to justify what Israel are doing 

seen enough to think the whole situation has gone from Hamas v Israel Government to pro muslim/anti jew v anti Muslim

Certainly where the protests and marches are concerned 

 

When you unpick this Israeli government, there are some proper nut jobs in amongst the top jobs. Some hardline ultra Zionists who are hell bent on the destruction of Palestine. These people hold a lot of power and there is no doubt that they will be using Hamas as an excuse to further their aims.

3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

👍

 of course it matters. As long you were never given the job of advising mothers with premature babies 😉

I haven’t been commenting on the history or the politics behind the conflict. Just the thunder cunts over here demonstrating and trying to explain to COD experts that it’s not a computer game being played over there. 
 

So no it doesn’t matter. 👍

45 minutes ago, Zico said:

I think some folk are using hamas as an excuse for their islamaphobia and to justify what Israel are doing 

seen enough to think the whole situation has gone from Hamas v Israel Government to pro muslim/anti jew v anti Muslim

Certainly where the protests and marches are concerned 

 

Yesterday's News Agent's podcast was a good examination of this. The fact that the far right have somehow become arbiters of justice but really it's a way to outwardly display an anti-Muslim message under the blanket of something else and that yes, there is abhorrent anti-semitism in the ranks of the demonstrators; but to equally equate the two is incorrect given the numbers on the creasefire protest and the right-wing demonstration. Similarly there were jewish people on the protest last weekend - I personally knew some who went (you can be Jewish and uncomfortable about Israel you know) - but also the escalation (and the stuff coming out from unhelpful planks like Corybn) that does make Jewish communities feel fearful is very real and needs to be addressed without hesitation, from people stating all Israel comes out with is proganda, to the frankly disgusting placards fearing Nazi symbolism. As I say I live opposite a Synagogue and actaully they have had security for a couple of years now, last couple of weeks on a Saturday morning they have also have a police car outside. To say that's just because of the protests isn't correct, but a dialling down of tensions - which should be led by our politicians needs to happen. That Braverman's rhetoric isn't inflame tensions too much gives me my continued faith that the people of this country are overall accepting, rational and reasonable people who don't cede to dog whistle extremism from either side.

The likes of the FLA and the EDL however, do not represent the silent majority or represent the flag they are so keen to stand in front of. Minority thugs that also need to be dealt with.

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

I haven’t been commenting on the history or the politics behind the conflict. Just the thunder cunts over here demonstrating and trying to explain to COD experts that it’s not a computer game being played over there. 
 

So no it doesn’t matter. 👍

Thunder cunts ❤️
 

Nobody is denying that it’s not incredibly difficult for soldiers over there. But that doesn’t excuse war crimes.

Nor does it excuse the atrocities the Israeli government have committed in the West Bank. If anything these policies only put their soliders and citizens at more risk. Their own defence minister warned them earlier in the year that things would escalate if they didn’t stop bulldozing innocent people’s homes. Every international organisation recognises this is illegal.

 And that does not, in any way, excuse Hamas.

 The history is vital. It’s all connected. The history, the fighting conditions, the misinformation etc. can’t understand one without understanding the other. 

 

55 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Thunder cunts ❤️
 

Nobody is denying that it’s not incredibly difficult for soldiers over there. But that doesn’t excuse war crimes.

Nor does it excuse the atrocities the Israeli government have committed in the West Bank. If anything these policies only put their soliders and citizens at more risk. Their own defence minister warned them earlier in the year that things would escalate if they didn’t stop bulldozing innocent people’s homes. Every international organisation recognises this is illegal.

 And that does not, in any way, excuse Hamas.

 The history is vital. It’s all connected. The history, the fighting conditions, the misinformation etc. can’t understand one without understanding the other. 

The fighting conditions can be applied to any theatre around the world. This is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. 

He's right y'know!

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/10/bodyguard-police-fighting-urinating-seats-ugly-new-side-of-theatre-audiences

2 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Thunder cunts ❤️
 

Nobody is denying that it’s not incredibly difficult for soldiers over there. But that doesn’t excuse war crimes.

Nor does it excuse the atrocities the Israeli government have committed in the West Bank. If anything these policies only put their soliders and citizens at more risk. Their own defence minister warned them earlier in the year that things would escalate if they didn’t stop bulldozing innocent people’s homes. Every international organisation recognises this is illegal.

 And that does not, in any way, excuse Hamas.

 The history is vital. It’s all connected. The history, the fighting conditions, the misinformation etc. can’t understand one without understanding the other. 

Have Israel committed war crimes?

37 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

He's right y'know!

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/10/bodyguard-police-fighting-urinating-seats-ugly-new-side-of-theatre-audiences

 Haha

4 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

What chance is there of believing anything when there is misinformation like this. 

 

They quote Reuters as saying that on the clip in fairness, but I've long given up on a clear picture being portrayed anywhere. 

Fog of war etc, bias etc etc.

It's pretty clear Israel is going to do what it said it would and destroy Hamas and its infrastructure, and until that's been achieved then the "story" will just continue.

 

14 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Have Israel committed war crimes?

Aye, widely agreed through multiple investigations by international bodies. The sources are everywhere.

 

“Since 2006, the Human Rights Council has mandated several fact finding missions into violations of international law, including war crimes, in the OPT, including a permanent, ongoing inquiry since May of 2021.[10][11] Since 2021, the ICC has had an active investigation into Israeli war crimes committed in the OPT.[12][13] Israel has refused to cooperate with the investigations”..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

 What would you call the bulldozing of innocent family homes on their land? Just a crime?

1 hour ago, royal white said:

The fighting conditions can be applied to any theatre around the world. This is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. 

The IDF evict whole villages of innocent people. Sometimes in the most brutal of conditions.

There are no ‘fighting conditions’ to contend with when these place 👍

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

They quote Reuters as saying that on the clip in fairness, but I've long given up on a clear picture being portrayed anywhere. 

Fog of war etc, bias etc etc.

It's pretty clear Israel is going to do what it said it would and destroy Hamas and its infrastructure, and until that's been achieved then the "story" will just continue.

 

They’ve now issued an on air apology. 

12 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Have Israel committed war crimes?

 

12 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Have Israel committed war crimes?

Sorry for the repeat! So, obviously no one has been prosecuted yet and as such either side can refute that claim despite clear evidence to the contrary from both. Outsider experts and the UN say there is clear evidence of war crimes from both sides - for example you can't force civillians out of an area by a certain date or else you get blown to bits, many saw this as a humanitarian gesture but actually constitutes a war crime as even if you don't leave you have the same rights, as well, because you are a human being. Also to withhold medical care for civillians is a violation of the Geneva Convention.  Finally,  if there is found to be any failure to discriminate between military targets and civillians then it will have. The UN says there is evidence on both sides of war crimes.

Gaza city is densly populated but that does not absolve the attacking force from their duty to distinguish between combantants and civillians, even if Hamas cowardly hide behind them. Its why terrorist groups do it, they can't defeat a conventional army so they use these tactics and its been going on forever, however unpalatable this maybe. This has holds to account those who's strategy is to 'blow them to bits' 

During a conflict experts simply can only collect the evidence to be delievered at a date so if crimes have been comitted, countries, organisations or people can face justice.

So in anwer, the evidence is there but no one will be held to account until the conflict dies down.