Meanwhile in Israel

[London Wanderer]

27 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Hey LW. Given the current circumstances, What do you think should happen now?

Evacuation and where to?

Ceasefire and for how long?

Anything else?

 

Aww I see you've made your little lapdog very happy with this post. 

Where would anyone begin with trying to solve this? The hatred is so embedded. We've a proper hard line Israeli government who have some real extremists in their midst. And we've got Hamas, who speak for themselves. It's hard to see a way out, though it helps to remember that both sides do not have majority support amongst their citizens. The people of Israel and Palestine need to first come together to remove these people from power who have only caused more escalation with their radical policies. 

We've seen peace solutions work in the past and come so close to meaningful, long term change. So there's always hope for change. 

Some ideas (suggested by others) :

- ceasefire or much longer pauses for humanitarian aid.

- stop the illegal occupations in the West Bank - (the lass in this reminds me of the conspiracy nutjobs you see in the US) But with a genuine position of power. Scary stuff. 

 

- ideas for a two or one state solution are interesting - 

What do you think?

Do you think Israel's response to Oct 7 will work? 

Edited November 15, 2023 by London Wanderer

[globaldiver]

At least Labour are united

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

Re. a ceasefire - how would it be enforced considering Hamas have openly stated their intent to commit more 7ths October?

And how can Hamas' rearmament and repositioning in northern Gaza be prevented during the ceasefire?

I wouldn't claim it couldn't happen, but I haven't yet seen a convincing  answer to either of those questions

[Spider]

6 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

At least Labour are united

Sir Keir standing by his beliefs.

Strong bloke. Thought you’d like that, plus the position he’s taking regarding Hamas.

Votable. Aligned.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

5 minutes ago, Spider said:

Sir Keir standing by his beliefs.

Strong bloke. Thought you’d like that, plus the position he’s taking regarding Hamas.

Votable. Aligned.

For what it's worth, he didn't actually register a vote tonight

[Spider]

5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

For what it's worth, he didn't actually register a vote tonight

He’s made his thoughts clear.

There’ll be a few floating voters that like that

[Winchester White]

For me, I don't see how asking for a ceasefire is such a bad thing but I understand the tightrope Starmer is trying to balance on within the party.

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

6 minutes ago, Spider said:

He’s made his thoughts clear.

There’ll be a few floating voters that like that

Aye

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

For me, I don't see how asking for a ceasefire is such a bad thing but I understand the tightrope Starmer is trying to balance on within the party.

 

In theory, it might seem like a good idea

But in practice, calling for a ceadefire when one of the parties involved in the fighting has clearly stated their intent not to stop committing atrocities would give that party free reign to continue killing, whether that's the intention or not

[Winchester White]

10 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

In theory, it might seem like a good idea

But in practice, calling for a ceadefire when one of the parties involved in the fighting has clearly stated their intent not to stop committing atrocities would give that party free reign to continue killing, whether that's the intention or not

I am not sure an opposition party of the UK government calling for a ceasefire would have any sway on the Israelis, do you?

[Zico]

7 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Re. a ceasefire - how would it be enforced considering Hamas have openly stated their intent to commit more 7ths October?

And how can Hamas' rearmament and repositioning in northern Gaza be prevented during the ceasefire?

I wouldn't claim it couldn't happen, but I haven't yet seen a convincing  answer to either of those questions

I don't see a ceasefire happening whilst there are hostages 

Israel surely won't stop till they are released 

And Hamas won't surely release then whilst being bombed 

Assuming they are still alive, as I'm sure Hamas will happily use hostage as shields just as much as Palestinians 

It's like both sides have to say "ok, we've made our point, and killed as many of yours as possible in this latest round of combat, so let's just leave it there, for now" 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

7 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I am not sure an opposition party of the UK government calling for a ceasefire would have any sway on the Israelis, do you?

No, but that's a different matter

[Zico]

22 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

For me, I don't see how asking for a ceasefire is such a bad thing but I understand the tightrope Starmer is trying to balance on within the party.

 

What's the point though 

At best Israel might listen to the US but even that seems like a stretch right now 

They couldn't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, let alone the leader of the opposition in the UK 

Starmer has absolutely no reason to look like he's trying to influence the outcome of this situation 

So it's best for him if he actually just gives his honest opinion and stands by it

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

I don't see a ceasefire happening whilst there are hostages 

Israel surely won't stop till they are released 

And Hamas won't surely release then whilst being bombed 

Assuming they are still alive, as I'm sure Hamas will happily use hostage as shields just as much as Palestinians 

It's like both sides have to say "ok, we've made our point, and killed as many of yours as possible in this latest round of combat, so let's just leave it there, for now" 

Yeah, I can't see it getting to a stage were both are genuine in favouring a ceasefire any time soon

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

There's also the fact that sometimes it's necessary to fight and defeat evil

Hamas can never be anything but an evil terrorist organisation with no possibility of bringing overcome peacefully

[Winchester White]

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

What's the point though 

At best Israel might listen to the US but even that seems like a stretch right now 

They couldn't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, let alone the leader of the opposition in the UK 

Starmer has absolutely no reason to look like he's trying to influence the outcome of this situation 

So it's best for him if he actually just gives his honest opinion and stands by it

Yeah, fair point.

[wanderer1984]

34 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Aww I see you've made your little lapdog very happy with this post. 

Where would anyone begin with trying to solve this? The hatred is so embedded. We've a proper hard line Israeli government who have some real extremists in their midst. And we've got Hamas, who speak for themselves. It's hard to see a way out, though it helps to remember that both sides do not have majority support amongst their citizens. The people of Israel and Palestine need to first come together to remove these people from power who have only caused more escalation with their radical policies. 

We've seen peace solutions work in the past and come so close to meaningful, long term change. So there's always hope for change. 

Some ideas (suggested by others) :

- ceasefire or much longer pauses for humanitarian aid.

- stop the illegal occupations in the West Bank - (the lass in this reminds me of the conspiracy nutjobs you see in the US) But with a genuine position of power. Scary stuff. 

 

- ideas for a two or one state solution are interesting - 

What do you think?

Do you think Israel's response to Oct 7 will work? 

Lapdog ... Next you'll bring Jimmy Sav in to the conversation.

Hatred ... How can the people come together? I know it's the best outcome, but it's never going to happen is it?

So close to long term change and peace. Who is it that forces this to collapse? The Israelis?

I'm pretty sure Hamas don't give a fuck about the land grab and don't care about civilians.

I think they care more about it being a non Muslim country. But at the same time no other Muslim countries want anything to do with the place. Makes me wonder why?

Ceasefire for the civilians to reach a suitable and prepared destination. Aid to be sent to those areas. Hard though when hamas are hiding behind those that need the most help.

Splitting the whole area into two is the obvious answer. But where do you start? Think it would kept the peace? Personally .. I don't.

 

 

 

[Zico]

20 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

There's also the fact that sometimes it's necessary to fight and defeat evil

The problem is both sides think that

[London Wanderer]

9 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Lapdog ... Next you'll bring Jimmy Sav in to the conversation. He was a big Israel supporter 🤣

Hatred ... How can the people come together? I know it's the best outcome, but it's never going to happen is it?Of It can - it has - but it takes generations.

So close to long term change and peace. Who is it that forces this to collapse? The Israelis? They certainly have at times yes. 

I'm pretty sure Hamas don't give a fuck about the land grab and don't care about civilians. 

I think they care more about it being a non Muslim country. But at the same time no other Muslim countries want anything to do with the place. Makes me wonder why? This is completely bonkers. No offence like ❤️

Ceasefire for the civilians to reach a suitable and prepared destination. Aid to be sent to those areas. Hard though when hamas are hiding behind those that need the most help. Definitely is. Hamas have said that they would agree to a ceasefire if they stop specific forced evictions and raids on the Mosque in Jerusalem. Not sure we can take their word though. 

Splitting the whole area into two is the obvious answer. But where do you start? For the experts to decide Think it would kept the peace? Aye, more than we're seeing now at least. Let's not forget there was a lot of violence in the West Bank leading up to this. Personally .. I don't.

 

 

 

 

[London Wanderer]

Didn't think I'd be sharing the wise words of Elon Musk
 

 

[Duck Egg]

30 minutes ago, Zico said:

The problem is both sides think that

It's like some can't accept that.

We hear Israel has a right to defend itself, yet Palestinians are expected to be routinely killed, injured, abused oppressed and dispossessed and just accept it?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

He’s made his thoughts clear.

There’ll be a few floating voters that like that

Fair play to him for staying strong on this.

Certainly not the case elsewhere, but that also applies to the other parties. That's for another thread though.

As for tonight's vote: it was well and truly mad clear that our parliament is backing Israel in its action.

[globaldiver]

12 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

It's like some can't accept that.

We hear Israel has a right to defend itself, yet Palestinians are expected to be routinely killed, injured, abused oppressed and dispossessed and just accept it?

Important to remember why this started

[Zico]

15 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Important to remember why this started

Was it when Israel moved back in, in 1948? 

Or when hamas set up shop in the 80s

Or way before either of those things

It certainly wasn't last month

[Casino]

Just now, Zico said:

 

It certainly wasn't last month

Nobody actually believes that

Theyre just taking the piss