Meanwhile in Israel

[Cheese]

37 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’d prefer Hamas to lay down their arms and surrender, that they won’t in order to protect their own people means the Israelis have no other alternative. This is a war and one side has to admit defeat. 

There are alternatives. You just disagree with them, and think killing thousands of innocent children is preferable.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Cheese

[Mounts Kipper]

43 minutes ago, Cheese said:

There are alternatives. You just disagree with them, and think killing thousands of innocent children is preferable.

You put words in my mouth… I’ve never said that, this is easily sorted by Hamas surrendering, that’s what normal governments would do to protect their own people when defeat is inevitable… that they won’t and that Hamas declared war by murdering 1300 innocent people means it’s on Hamas. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You put words in my mouth… I’ve never said that, this is easily sorted by Hamas surrendering, that’s what normal governments would do to protect their own people when defeat is inevitable… that they won’t and that Hamas declared war by murdering 1300 innocent people means it’s on Hamas. 

Hamas aren't a "normal government". They haven't held elections for the best part of 2 decades.

I haven't put any words  in your mouth. You've openly admitted you don't like the idea of a ceasefire or any other alternative that might mean Israel scale it back a bit, therefore your preferrence is for them is to continue bombing and starving innocent civilians.

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Hamas aren't a "normal government". They haven't held elections for the best part of 2 decades.

I haven't put any words  in your mouth. You've openly admitted you don't like the idea of a ceasefire or any other alternative that might mean Israel scale it back a bit, therefore your preferrence is for them is to continue bombing and starving innocent civilians.

If Israel stop Hamas regroup and it only extends the war, more deaths and pain, Hamas can stop this today by surrendering. At least you recognise Hamas aren’t a normal government it’s how they are removed where we differ and until someone comes up with an alternative solution to do just that then it’s more of the same. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[Cheese]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

If Israel stop Hamas regroup and it only extends the war, more deaths and pain, Hamas can stop this today by surrendering. At least you recognise Hamas aren’t a normal government it’s how they are removed where we differ. 

Where we fundamentally differ is; I don't think murdering thousands of children is going to solve anything, while you do.

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Jol_BWFC said:

What’s the score at the moment? Isreal 2-1 Hamas? Innocent men, women and children -25,000.

Israel and their supporters don't think they've won yet, so guessing it's 1-1 heading into injury time 

Still time for an Israel winner

Be interesting to see much additional time the ref allows

Hoping to avoid a draw and extra time 

Or a second leg

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Where we fundamentally differ is; I don't think murdering thousands of children is going to solve anything, while you do.

Hamas remain in power and the threat to Israel remains, they have to be removed, where we differ is you think leaving hamas in place stops children from dying, I think removing hamas stops kids dying. 

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Hamas remain in power and the threat to Israel remains, they have to be removed, where we differ is you think leaving hamas in place stops children from dying, I think removing hamas stops kids dying. 

I want the removal of Hamas as much as you do. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. And if one of the ways involves murdering thousands of children and innocent civilians, I would probably pause to look at the alternatives.

[Mounts Kipper]

Just now, Cheese said:

I want the removal of Hamas as much as you do. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. And if one of the ways involves murdering thousands of children and innocent civilians, I would probably pause to look at the alternatives.

You can’t come up with a solution to remove Hamas..calling for a break in fighting does not hasten Hamas demise. Your alternative extends the war and kills more kids. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You can’t come up with a solution to remove Hamas..calling for a break in fighting does not hasten Hamas demise. Your alternative extends the war and kills more kids. 

So basically, you're saying it doesn't matter how many children and innocent civilians are killed as long as Hamas are taken out as soon as possible.

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So basically, you're saying it doesn't matter how many children and innocent civilians are killed as long as Hamas are taken out as soon as possible.

Until someone comes up with an alternative solution that’s sadly how it will be. I’ve asked numerous times how else can they be removed and no one has come up with anything other than a cease fire, that’s a temporary solution to get aid in but that aid will feed Hamas and will allow them to regroup which only extends the war and increased deaths. 

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Until someone comes up with an alternative solution that’s sadly how it will be. I’ve asked numerous times how else can they be removed and no one has come up with anything other than a cease fire, that’s a temporary solution to get aid in but that aid will feed Hamas and will allow them to regroup which only extends the war and increased deaths. 

That's just conjecture. Nobody is suggesting a ceasefire will end anything.

At what point do Israel declare 'victory' and confirm that Hamas are gone for good? What's the end goal? Because it's fucking obvious to most folk that murdering thousands of innocent people is just going to create the next Hamas - and probably an even more toxic vengeful version.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Cheese

[Mounts Kipper]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

That's just conjecture. Nobody is suggesting a ceasefire will end anything.

At what point do Israel declare 'victory' and confirm that Hamas are gone for good? Because it's fucking obvious to most folk that murdering thousands of innocent people is just going to create the next Hamas - and probably an even more toxic vengeful version.

Victory is declared when Hamas surrender. Only then do the Palestinians get a chance of democracy and to vote on their future government.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Victory is declared when Hamas surrender. 

What if they're all dead? What if Hamas just stop fighting, but don't surrender, so Israel think they've won? They might regroup with even more recruits because there are thousands of people who've seen their homes and innocent relatives blown to bits.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Cheese

[Mounts Kipper]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

What if they're all dead? What if Hamas just stop fighting, but don't surrender, so Israel think they've won? They might regroup with even more recruits because there are thousands of people who've seen their homes and innocent relatives blown to bits.

If they attack Israel again then it all kicks off again and more innocents die. The penny needs to drop, live in peace with Israelis or forever be under bombardment. 

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If they attack Israel again then it all kicks off again and more innocents die. The penny needs to drop, live in peace with Israelis or forever be under bombardment. 

I was just conjecturing, like you are.

[London Wanderer]

5 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

On this I think we can all agree. It’s just how we get to that point that folk disagree on.

It’s mad you think genocide is how we get to that point.

[Mounts Kipper]

35 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

It’s mad you think genocide is how we get to that point.

It’s mad you think that it’s genocide. 

[London Wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s mad you think that it’s genocide. 

It’s the ICJ that said there was a plausible case 👍 They must be mad too 🙄

[Zico]

46 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s mad you think that it’s genocide. 

Do you not think it's deliberate, or simply just collateral damage? 

[Mounts Kipper]

57 minutes ago, Zico said:

Do you not think it's deliberate, or simply just collateral damage? 

100% collateral. And what’s worse is Hamas are to blame.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, London Wanderer said:

It’s the ICJ that said there was a plausible case 👍 They must be mad too 🙄

So youve unilaterally decided the case is proven. 

[Cheese]

9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

100% collateral. 

You'd expect after a few hundred kids were killed, they'd think "maybe we need to re-consider this tactic?". After thousands are killed, it's simply beyond the scope of 'collateral'. They haven't dropped a nuke. This has been going on for 5 months. And they definitely have the equipment to carry out surgical strikes.

Edited March 9, 2024 by Cheese

[London Wanderer]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

So youve unilaterally decided the case is proven. 

It’s blatantly obvious it’s deliberate. No excuses to cause widespread starvation & bomb on the scale they have. Whether that will labelled as genocide in court we’re yet to see. But they’ve accepted there’s a strong case to go by.

[royal white]

No doubt the main issue for some on here will be who posted it.