Meanwhile in Israel

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Nice one.

Obviously, that article will be criticised, and even dismissed, as it is written by the editor of the Jewish Chronicle, but it is more coherent and rational than any of the screeching narrative that it discusses.

Stuff that you don’t like even when it’s irrefutable = screeching. One sided propaganda that ignores a wealth of evidence = coherent and rational.

Thats the problem right there. Both sides do it but denying Israel’s appalling behaviour since October and indeed before it, can’t just be pretended out of existence. 
 

The people who are wronged are the Palestinians. Because they aren’t Hamas nor Israel. 

[Traf]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

The people who are wronged are the Palestinians. Because they aren’t Hamas nor Israel. 

Amazing that people still aren't grasping this simple fact.

[Casino]

7 minutes ago, Traf said:

Amazing that people still aren't grasping this simple fact.

Oh they grasp it

They just dont care

I really cant imagine why

[wanderer1984]

All our news reports ... All the twitter shite and everything else ... I've not seen one Palestinian beg for Hamas to give up and surrender. Weird init. 

[Casino]

Very weird

But dont worry, you wont be the only one thinking like that

[bolty58]

10 hours ago, Casino said:

he knows that

Utterly incorrect.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Stuff that you don’t like even when it’s irrefutable = screeching. One sided propaganda that ignores a wealth of evidence = coherent and rational.

Thats the problem right there. Both sides do it but denying Israel’s appalling behaviour since October and indeed before it, can’t just be pretended out of existence. 
 

The people who are wronged are the Palestinians. Because they aren’t Hamas nor Israel. 

Nothing to do with right and left. Folk of all persuasion will make their own minds up.

That the article is "propaganda and ignores the evidence"- despite it illustrating the lack accurate accuracy of that evidence. 

No-one disputes the deaths and horror.

What isn't fully clear is the underlying attitudes, the full details etc. The manipulation of media or its lack of will to get the whole truth is also evident.

The lack of protest from yourself over the dozens, maybe hundreds, of conflicts the world over, not involved Jews is also evident.

You're not the only one.

There are always two sides to a conflict, and that is what they're in- a war.

Looking at the situation from here, and nor putting yourself into the mindset of the participants over there (if that's completely possible) yields a judgement based on our current values.

Looking back to wars with our participation- will you ever hand wring and spend ages slagging off the UK and allies over the killing of civilians in Germany etc?

We were at war. War is nasty and cruel.

Sadly people die.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Nothing to do with right and left. Folk of all persuasion will make their own minds up.

That the article is "propaganda and ignores the evidence"- despite it illustrating the lack accurate accuracy of that evidence. 

No-one disputes the deaths and horror.

What isn't fully clear is the underlying attitudes, the full details etc. The manipulation of media or its lack of will to get the whole truth is also evident.

The lack of protest from yourself over the dozens, maybe hundreds, of conflicts the world over, not involved Jews is also evident.

You're not the only one.

There are always two sides to a conflict, and that is what they're in- a war.

Looking at the situation from here, and nor putting yourself into the mindset of the participants over there (if that's completely possible) yields a judgement based on our current values.

Looking back to wars with our participation- will you ever hand wring and spend ages slagging off the UK and allies over the killing of civilians in Germany etc?

We were at war. War is nasty and cruel.

Sadly people die.

I’m not protesting. I particularly dislike many who have been marching round waving Palestinian flags. It’s unnecessary and is achieving nothing other than intimidating the Jewish population here who are like the Palestinians completely innocent. So you can knock that idea on the head.

You’ve quoted an article that says we can only decide what’s happened when Israel and the IDF tells us and should disregard all other evidence. You don’t see that - an article that says that especially in the case of Israel a state that has lied consistently - as ‘one sided’?

Finally - Palestinian people aren’t at war and you can’t keep ignoring that they were being killed by the state of Israel long long long before October 7th 2023. 

The fact is that the violence needs to end and a proper two state solution needs to be put in place because it’s the only hope we get any stability. 

 

 

 

[BobyBrno]

People will always have differing views. It helps if the information that form those views is accurate. The reports of the attack on the school last week came from Hamas. It reported 70 + civilians. This is the claim from the IDF. It gives a completely different perspective. 
 

 

[Casino]

5 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

People will always have differing views. It helps if the information that form those views is accurate. The reports of the attack on the school last week came from Hamas. It reported 70 + civilians. This is the claim from the IDF. It gives a completely different perspective. 
 

 

Out of interest, why should I believe that?

 

Fwiw, if i was proper hamas, you know, tommy robinson rather than elsie from clacton, why would I still be in Gaza?

[BobyBrno]

1 minute ago, Casino said:

Out of interest, why should I believe that?

 

Fwiw, if i was proper hamas, you know, tommy robinson rather than elsie from clacton, why would I still be in Gaza?

You can believe who you want. It helps if you’re given the choice of full facts.
 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

People will always have differing views. It helps if the information that form those views is accurate. The reports of the attack on the school last week came from Hamas. It reported 70 + civilians. This is the claim from the IDF. It gives a completely different perspective. 
 

 

It’s not really worth a focus on one incident. Do Hamas put Palestinian civilians in danger to use in their anti Israel PR war? Yep. Do Israel indiscriminately kill Palestinians and regard their lives as of low value? Yep. 
 

Both are true.

[Zico]

12 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

No-one disputes the deaths and horror.

 

Yes they do 

The number of deaths reported out of Gaza are regularly disrupted 

The same folk don't seem horrified either 

In fact they pretty much encourage it to the point of wanting it, because they want Israel to win, and it's quite clear what Israel see as a victory

[captainmed]

Went to Isreal watching England in 2007 with my son.

Did an organised tour one day, walking through the various areas around the wailing wall.

One metal detector after the other.

The Muslim area was an absolute dump and the Jewish one was pristine.

You were literally walking through security from Knightsbridge and ending up in Toxteth.

It was surreal.

We couldn’t get the necessary insurance as I really wanted to take him to Bethlehem.
 

 

[BobyBrno]

55 minutes ago, Zico said:

Yes they do 

The number of deaths reported out of Gaza are regularly disrupted 

The same folk don't seem horrified either 

In fact they pretty much encourage it to the point of wanting it, because they want Israel to win, and it's quite clear what Israel see as a victory

No one knows the split of deaths in Gaza between civilians and terrorists. Do you know?

Hamas, the terrorist, say 40,000 have died. No one can verify that number, no one. If it is correct though, how many are terrorists?

I want Israel to beat the terrorists. Who do you want to win?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

No one knows the split of deaths in Gaza between civilians and terrorists. Do you know?

Hamas, the terrorist, say 40,000 have died. No one can verify that number, no one. If it is correct though, how many are terrorists?

I want Israel to beat the terrorists. Who do you want to win?

The fog of war.

Difficult to see through it.

Your last sentence is clear and succinct though. 

[BobyBrno]

19 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

The fog of war.

Difficult to see through it.

Your last sentence is clear and succinct though. 

Peace talks ongoing today but Hamas opted out. Hopefully progress can be made. I doubt it though. 

[Zico]

54 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

No one knows the split of deaths in Gaza between civilians and terrorists. Do you know?

Hamas, the terrorist, say 40,000 have died. No one can verify that number, no one. If it is correct though, how many are terrorists?

I want Israel to beat the terrorists. Who do you want to win?

The first two sentences back up my point that the deaths are disputed so thanks 

I want Hamas and Israel to stop killing innocent people, it would be good for peace to prevail but neither wants it

There no winner, there no justification, for any of it

[BobyBrno]

10 hours ago, Zico said:

The first two sentences back up my point that the deaths are disputed so thanks 

I want Hamas and Israel to stop killing innocent people, it would be good for peace to prevail but neither wants it

There no winner, there no justification, for any of it

Watching the news this morning and they seemed more hopeful of a peace deal than I thought. 🤞

[athywhite1958]

21 hours ago, captainmed said:

Went to Isreal watching England in 2007 with my son.

Did an organised tour one day, walking through the various areas around the wailing wall.

One metal detector after the other.

The Muslim area was an absolute dump and the Jewish one was pristine.

You were literally walking through security from Knightsbridge and ending up in Toxteth.

It was surreal.

We couldn’t get the necessary insurance as I really wanted to take him to Bethlehem.
 

 

wasn't that when we all went to Mike's Bar which had been blown up 12 months earlier and all the locals were coming shaking our hands, our airline, German Wings, went bust as we were then going on to Barcelona for the Spain game

[kent_white]

Just a thought. But I'm always surprised that it tends to be the same people that 'want their country back' that seem to be so surprised that the Palestinians might be somewhat annoyed by the state of Israel being plonked where they live. 

I'm not on about anyone on here necessarily. 

[Spider]

The world is a massive place, yet its 3 main religions have decided to spend 2000 years constantly fucking bickering over the same 20 acres of dusty shithole near Galilee.

Frankly, it’s hard to have much sympathy.

Just pick your relics up and take them somewhere else.

Dickheads.

[captainmed]

3 hours ago, athywhite1958 said:

wasn't that when we all went to Mike's Bar which had been blown up 12 months earlier and all the locals were coming shaking our hands, our airline, German Wings, went bust as we were then going on to Barcelona for the Spain game

It sure was.

On the sea-front.

The locals were great.

Great memories 👍🏻

[bolty58]

Promising signs or is it that Biden wants it so bad that he's being overly optimistic?

[BobyBrno]

14 hours ago, kent_white said:

Just a thought. But I'm always surprised that it tends to be the same people that 'want their country back' that seem to be so surprised that the Palestinians might be somewhat annoyed by the state of Israel being plonked where they live. 

I'm not on about anyone on here necessarily. 

Not sure ‘plonked’ is the right word. It didn’t happen overnight and it didn’t start in 1948. Another date in history.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/history/article/2023/08/06/90-years-ago-a-negotiated-transfer-led-over-50-000-german-jews-to-palestine_6082440_157.html

I’ve said before, you go back to a date in time and it takes you back to another to understand the reason then another and another and you give up when it gets to Jesus. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited August 18, 2024 by BobyBrno