Covid-19

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

Don’t suppose you’ve got some sort of link?

Last I heard it reached 31,000 but none of them were ‘new’

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-doctors-and-nurses-working-in-the-nhs-in-england

[kent_white]

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

People (politicians) always say it needs more money. Nobody ever says how much would mean fully funded.

It is a beast of an organisation, with much inefficiency, along with great qualities.

As a taxpayer, I would want a honest appraisal of it before any further significant funding. 

It might be helpful if it was a non-party appraisal, but this government has increased funding over the years.

 

It hasn't - not in real terms. 

And not when taking into account an increase in expectation/costs of supplies and agency fees/an ageing population/higher acuity of patients etc. 

Honest. 

I think you absolutely need all that information as a tax payer. In general it's all out there - it's just not distilled into a package that makes sense to everyone and isn't spun politically. 

This is one issue that isn't one for party politics or ideology. Although - is a health system that's free at the point of delivery an ideology in itself? 

I know people talk about a private healthcare system. And that might make sense in some circumstances. And if we were starting from scratch it might be an idea to explore. 

But the money it would cost to dismantle the current system would be astronomical - patient care would suffer for literally decades. It might take about 50 years to finally come to fruition. 

We've got a pretty good base. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater IMHO. We just need to give ourselves a level playing field.

Anyway - I'm boring myself now! Been one of those days today! And I come on here sometimes to rant! 😁

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-doctors-and-nurses-working-in-the-nhs-in-england

I reckon a huge amount of those are people who have returned to nursing to support during the pandemic. 

Be surprised if it doesn't flatten out or come back down again post COVID. Whenever that might be!

Student numbers are up though which is encouraging!

[Casino]

20 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Roughly we spend £2,500 pc - Germany spend about £4,400 pc I think? And France aren't far behind. 

The NHS is an enormous beast. Parts of it are wonderfully managed. Others less so. I imagine that's similar in France and Germany. Or wherever you go.

But having seen it from the inside - I think the NHS is managed pretty well at a senior level. I still think there should be a cross party strategy though - and less ripping up and starting again every 4 years or so.....

 

 

The tory I'd be most likely to vote for is Jeremy hunt

Howver, mrs casino has him lined up against the wall come the revolution

Health Secretary is certainly a shit job

No wonder hancock milked it for personal gain

[kent_white]

9 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Thanks mate...... 🥰🥰🥰

[kent_white]

Just now, Casino said:

The tory I'd be most likely to vote for is Jeremy hunt

Howver, mrs casino has him lined up against the wall come the revolution

Health Secretary is certainly a shit job

No wonder hancock milked it for personal gain

I was saying the other day that he's got more of a handle on the NHS now he's out of the job than he did during it. He's actually held the govt to real account whenever I've heard him in parliament. 

Don't tell anyone I said that though! 😂

[Spider]

6 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-doctors-and-nurses-working-in-the-nhs-in-england

Less than 11,000

And as Kent says, plenty brought out of retirement for Covid.

But, a fifth of the way there with 3 years to go.

[kent_white]

12 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

I get that.

But then look at other state services; care, police, councils, education, armed forces etc etc. All deserving of “more”. 
 

 

Totally agree - which is why austerity was such a shite idea - and why I wouldn't have risked our economy still further by leaving the EU. 

[Spider]

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It hasn't - not in real terms. 

And not when taking into account an increase in expectation/costs of supplies and agency fees/an ageing population/higher acuity of patients etc. 

Honest. 

I think you absolutely need all that information as a tax payer. In general it's all out there - it's just not distilled into a package that makes sense to everyone and isn't spun politically. 

This is one issue that isn't one for party politics or ideology. Although - is a health system that's free at the point of delivery an ideology in itself? 

I know people talk about a private healthcare system. And that might make sense in some circumstances. And if we were starting from scratch it might be an idea to explore. 

But the money it would cost to dismantle the current system would be astronomical - patient care would suffer for literally decades. It might take about 50 years to finally come to fruition. 

We've got a pretty good base. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater IMHO. We just need to give ourselves a level playing field.

Anyway - I'm boring myself now! Been one of those days today! And I come on here sometimes to rant! 😁

50 years would be fine for Kipper. He works on very long deadlines.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It hasn't - not in real terms. 

And not when taking into account an increase in expectation/costs of supplies and agency fees/an ageing population/higher acuity of patients etc. 

Honest. 

I think you absolutely need all that information as a tax payer. In general it's all out there - it's just not distilled into a package that makes sense to everyone and isn't spun politically. 

This is one issue that isn't one for party politics or ideology. Although - is a health system that's free at the point of delivery an ideology in itself? 

I know people talk about a private healthcare system. And that might make sense in some circumstances. And if we were starting from scratch it might be an idea to explore. 

But the money it would cost to dismantle the current system would be astronomical - patient care would suffer for literally decades. It might take about 50 years to finally come to fruition. 

We've got a pretty good base. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater IMHO. We just need to give ourselves a level playing field.

Anyway - I'm boring myself now! Been one of those days today! And I come on here sometimes to rant! 😁

I think this confirms the spend 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Notwithstanding Covid, we are towards/at we  can reasonably collect in tax, after which people just resist paying more/plan to avoid it. It will be interesting to see how well the rise in NI is accepted.

Then there’s the generational issue; will those at work/creating wealth really want to be sitting ducks to look after their parents/grannies?

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Totally agree - which is why austerity was such a shite idea - and why I wouldn't have risked our economy still further by leaving the EU. 

We’ll beg to differ on both of those!

There was no real austerity and I fully expect Brexit to pay dividends.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

We’ll beg to differ on both of those!

There was no real austerity and I fully expect Brexit to pay dividends.

Are you in the “it’ll take ten years” camp with Mounts? Or can I expect January to be smoother than the Italians told me?

[Guest]

South Africa jubilant as Omicron wave subsides rapidly with minimal Covid hospital admissions and Delta killed off: ‘Expect the same in other countries’ https://cityam.com/south-africa-jubilant-as-omicron-wave-subsides-as-quickly-as-it-came-with-minimal-hospital-admissions-and-deadly-delta-killed-off/…

[Guest]

Just now, Spider said:

Are you in the “it’ll take ten years” camp with Mounts? Or can I expect January to be smoother than the Italians told me?

I can’t remember what I used to consistently say.

I do recall that i said that it would be OK.

It’s headed that way. 

[Casino]

Just now, boltondiver said:

I can’t remember what I used to consistently say.

I do recall that i said that it would be OK.

It’s headed that way. 

What is the 'key data' you're basing that on

[Spider]

2 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

I can’t remember what I used to consistently say.

I do recall that i said that it would be OK.

It’s headed that way. 

I could do with it being sooner than ten years.

Ive kids to get through stuff and a pension to pot to try and fill.

Brexit related losses aren’t really helping with either if it’s a ten year thing.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Spider

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

What is the 'key data' you're basing that on

On whatever is available in this pandemic

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

I could do with it being sooner than ten years.

Ive kids to get through stuff and a pension to pot to try and fill.

Brexit related losses aren’t really helping with either if it’s a ten year thing.

I didn’t mention 10 years.

How is your pension fund doing?

Where is it invested?

[Spider]

Just now, boltondiver said:

I didn’t mention 10 years.

How is your pension fund doing?

Where is it invested?

Not great

Currently only able to invest the bare minimum I’m afraid. Thanks to losing (due to unpreparedness) a glut of export customers these last few years.

People on here may have heard me mention that Brexit has had a direct impact on my pocket, despite any moral victories on voting day.

It is what it is.

[Traf]

Just now, Spider said:

Not great

Currently only able to invest the bare minimum I’m afraid. Thanks to losing (due to unpreparedness) a glut of export customers these last few years.

People on here may have heard me mention that Brexit has had a direct impact on my pocket, despite any moral victories on voting day.

It is what it is.

You needed to pre-manage your expectations better.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, Traf said:

You needed to pre-manage your expectations better.

I’m sure we are ALL now fully prepped and completely bulletproof for the next 10/15 years 🤣🤣🤣

[Casino]

6 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

On whatever is available in this pandemic

Oh, come on

 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

I’m sure we are ALL now fully prepped and completely bulletproof for the next 10/15 years 🤣🤣🤣

Agile 😎

[Traf]

3 minutes ago, Traf said:

You needed to pre-manage your expectations better.

I actually got told this today by a vendor/supplier after I suggested a 3hr wait on hold to speak to someone wasn't acceptable.

I won't name and shame the company involved other than to say the person I spoke to was an absolute tuit.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Agile 😎

We all just need Mounts’ crystal ball.

Captain Hindsight gets it right every time 😊😊