We had a discussion on here a while back, which suggested quite a substantial opposition to the project.

Now that there are rumours that the Northern section will be scrapped, what are the views now?

I was always an opponent of it, though softened slightly when an expert lady explained in more detail about the capacity issues on the East and West Coast mainlines.

If we processed them adequately we would be able to utilise the skills of the legal applicants to help boost our economy.  There is a novel idea.

6 hours ago, Zico said:

Aye, if we employed Indians to build it like they do in places like Dubai it would have been finished long again at half the price 

What if we use 

The Boat People 

there are enough of the Fuckers 

getting free board and food 

Just start Digging like they did with the Manchester Ship Canal 

Make them work for there keep 

5 hours ago, gonzo said:

Anyone disagreeing with Conservative policy= Lefty

I was being polite. 
I normally refer to them as wetwipes, bed-wetters, tree huggers, unwashed scruffy c n uts, Labour voting lazy fkrs etc etc 

18 minutes ago, anewman said:

I was being polite. 
I normally refer to them as wetwipes, bed-wetters, tree huggers, unwashed scruffy c n uts, Labour voting lazy fkrs etc etc 

And how do you refer to Tory voters these days?

9 hours ago, Nowack said:

I have a sneaking suspicion he may not scrap it and try and make himself out as a saviour. Even though they are the ones who have been briefing that it is going to be scrapped. 

He will scrap it but will twist it that the money saved will be spent on Northern towns to help with “levelling up” in the hope that he retains a few of the blue seats they won at the last election with their Brexit fear campaign.

1 minute ago, freds dad said:

He will scrap it but will twist it that the money saved will be spent on Northern towns to help with “levelling up” in the hope that he retains a few of the blue seats they won at the last election with their Brexit fear campaign.

Better that than a financial sink hole surely?

During covid, numbers using the railways plummeted as we know, and haven't recovered.

Not sure the "capacity" arguments still stand, but of course numbers could recover in future and make it more viable.

Like anything, proof of the pudding and all that, but it's hard to make a case of hs2 at the moment- the biggest factor arguably being that it's already gone so far so carry on!

The problem for the Tories is that they tied it up with levelling up and that northern Powerhouse bollocks.

So politically at least, it looks like they like the idea of levelling up but only if it doesn't cost too much.  It's almost like they blew the budget on tunnelling under Buckinghamshire so as not to upset the tory voters.

Interesting listen on the radio this morning some chap saying capacity is needed so more local trains and freight can use the current west and east main lines.

The would be better postponing it until Labour are in charge and let them cancel it.

19 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

The problem for the Tories is that they tied it up with levelling up and that northern Powerhouse bollocks.

So politically at least, it looks like they like the idea of levelling up but only if it doesn't cost too much.  It's almost like they blew the budget on tunnelling under Buckinghamshire so as not to upset the tory voters.

Interesting listen on the radio this morning some chap saying capacity is needed so more local trains and freight can use the current west and east main lines.

You're correct, as I've said before, Boris will have happily tagged it onto the levelling up agenda as a means to justify it.

Despite the fact its 15 years since inception. 

As for capacity- we've been discussing that on here for some time- where have you been?

Question is whether that is still the case.

It's what softened my view a bit, and also goes back to the debate before its inception over whether to expand Gatwick Airport to cope with more internal flights. They went for hs2 instead. In a strange twist of fate, had they plumped for an airport extension, I could potentially have been a millionaire now!

Who knows, had it just been proposed as a line to do just that, and not glorified into some thing that will makes travellers' lives infinitely better by virtue of 30 mins saved on a journey, then opposition may have been less.

 

8 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You're correct, as I've said before, Boris will have happily tagged it onto the levelling up agenda as a means to justify it.

Despite the fact its 15 years since inception. 

As for capacity- we've been discussing that on here for some time- where have you been?

Question is whether that is still the case.

It's what softened my view a bit, and also goes back to the debate before its inception over whether to expand Gatwick Airport to cope with more internal flights. They went for hs2 instead. In a strange twist of fate, had they plumped for an airport extension, I could potentially have been a millionaire now!

Who knows, had it just been proposed as a line to do just that, and not glorified into some thing that will makes travellers' lives infinitely better by virtue of 30 mins saved on a journey, then opposition may have been less.

 

Yes I know but what interested me was that so much capacity is lost on the main lines due to the fast travelling Avanti and LNER for safety reasons, if much of that traffic was on HS2 then local routes should get better. All in theory of course as that in itself requires investment.

All studies show that the better the public transport the more that use it and that is much better for the environment. Last time I visited our head office in Reading the train was utterly packed from Brum back to Manc.

1 minute ago, Winchester White said:

Yes I know but what interested me was that so much capacity is lost on the main lines due to the fast travelling Avanti and LNER for safety reasons, if much of that traffic was on HS2 then local routes should get better. All in theory of course as that in itself requires investment.

All studies show that the better the public transport the more that use it and that is much better for the environment. Last time I visited our head office in Reading the train was utterly packed from Brum back to Manc.

An interesting debate the environmental one. Two fold: firstly, the amount of co2 released in the manufacture of the concrete for the tunnels is truly staggering, add to the loss of woodland and habitat, and you wonder if it could ever be got back, especially as ice vehicles are now being phased out, making a green alternative. 

Secondly, and something that I've been exploring is the cost, both financial and environmental of a high speed train.

For every doubling of speed, the energy required quadruples. That's probably acceptable on a line that is long, but debatable on a journey that saves 30 minutes or so.

Possibly explains why hs trains weren't a cost effective idea for Manc to Leeds, where they would take a long distance to get up to speed and and long distance to stop. All that energy (and cost) lost for the sake of a minute or two on the journey.

 

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

An interesting debate the environmental one. Two fold: firstly, the amount of co2 released in the manufacture of the concrete for the tunnels is truly staggering, add to the loss of woodland and habitat, and you wonder if it could ever be got back, especially as ice vehicles are now being phased out, making a green alternative. 

Secondly, and something that I've been exploring is the cost, both financial and environmental of a high speed train.

For every doubling of speed, the energy required quadruples. That's probably acceptable on a line that is long, but debatable on a journey that saves 30 minutes or so.

Possibly explains why hs trains weren't a cost effective idea for Manc to Leeds, where they would take a long distance to get up to speed and and long distance to stop. All that energy (and cost) lost for the sake of a minute or two on the journey.

 

That's what the HS1 bloke was on about, no need for stupid speeds for HS2, current logic is 300kph is plenty good enough.

Manc to Leeds is still diesel, now that is stupid and should have been sorted long before now and that isn't a dig at the current lot, it's a decades old issue.

Just now, Winchester White said:

That's what the HS1 bloke was on about, no need for stupid speeds for HS2, current logic is 300kph is plenty good enough.

Manc to Leeds is still diesel, now that is stupid and should have been sorted long before now and that isn't a dig at the current lot, it's a decades old issue.

It's being sorted now thankfully. Don't know when it's due to finish though.

I would ask the question as to whether scrapping a major infrastructure scheme should be announced at a party conference, as is being suggested, or in parliament.

11 minutes ago, Nowack said:

I would ask the question as to whether scrapping a major infrastructure scheme should be announced at a party conference, as is being suggested, or in parliament.

Of course it should. But they don't actually give a fuck about the 'Sovereignty' they claimed to love more than life itself.

Ian Dunt smashes several nails on the head.

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/hs2-the-day-they-cancelled-the-21st

Yesterday Sunak was telling us he was aware of the speculation, but didn’t want to be rushed into a decision. He wanted to think hard about it to make a balanced and well reasoned call. He knew full well what the outcome was and the speech was already being written as he gave the interviews.

He is a lying prick of a human being that doesn’t give a shiny shit about anyone or anything apart from himself and what might help keep him in power. He thinks he can take us for mugs; the thing is, there are shit loads of people who lap it up and actually prove that he can (to a certain extent).

 

Wishy washy by name.

26 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Ian Dunt smashes several nails on the head.

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/hs2-the-day-they-cancelled-the-21st

It’s a good case for continuing with HS2 I’d also like to hear the opposite view to this. 

17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s a good case for continuing with HS2 I’d also like to hear the opposite view to this. 

You'll hear it later today from the Conservative Party conference...

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by Cheese

Ian Dunt is a great journalist, he has a potty mouth too which makes his columns quite funny too.

16 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You'll hear it later today from the Conservative Party conference...

I’ll be listening. 

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You'll hear it later today from the Conservtive Party conference...

Blah de blah, meat tax, mumble, levelling up, shuffle, cough, stop the boats, waffle, waffle, brexit bonus, blah de blah, energy boost, mumble, cough, erm hs2, pragmatism, lefty lawyers, fuck the planet, Jeremy Corbyn, 20 mph speed limit, mumble, applause.

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Blah de blah, meat tax, mumble, levelling up, shuffle, cough, stop the boats, waffle, waffle, brexit bonus, blah de blah, energy boost, mumble, cough, erm hs2, pragmatism, lefty lawyers, fuck the planet, Jeremy Corbyn, 20 mph speed limit, mumble, applause.

Has Sunak's speech been leaked?!

Oh good....Mrs Sunak is speaking at the conference, fuck knows why. I guess she's just telling everybody what a good egg he is