New Poll - Evatt

[Ani]

28 minutes ago, meanderson93 said:

I think it makes the most sense going forward and takes pressure off Santos to try and be some sort of ball playing anchor at CB. 

I think it's a pipedream though, if we were at all considering it we would have added a CM or two for depth and not sold Iredale as our only natural LB. 

 

I've put like a depth chart together, you can see it's very thin/weak in key areas. 

Could you do the same for 4 - 3 - 3 ? 

[Stig]

17 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I don't see one area where it's thin or weak.

Full backs

[Casino]

i see the poll almost exactly mirrors the one post wembley

starts off with sack, sack, sack then the ones who arent desperate to call for his for his head come along and the balance shifts

[Casino]

i see the poll almost exactly mirrors the one post wembley

starts off with sack, sack, sack then the ones who arent desperate to call for his for his head come along and the balance shifts

[Ani]

8 minutes ago, Casino said:

i see the poll almost exactly mirrors the one post wembley

starts off with sack, sack, sack then the ones who arent desperate to call for his for his head come along and the balance shifts

It does repeat itself. 

[tomski]

3 minutes ago, Casino said:

i see the poll almost exactly mirrors the one post wembley

starts off with sack, sack, sack then the ones who arent desperate to call for his for his head come along and the balance shifts

It’s interesting that it does seem split down the middle. 

I admire those saying give him time and the belief he will come good as I think little evidence suggests this.

FWIW I’d stick with him now as this season is done for me and the opportunity to hook him was after Oxford and having £3m more in the bank or whatever we’ve spent. Clubs don’t look good chopping and changing in early sept and if it convinced one candidate (that’s the right one) then it’s worth plodding on with him for a bit.
 

[Traf]

50 minutes ago, meanderson93 said:

I think it makes the most sense going forward and takes pressure off Santos to try and be some sort of ball playing anchor at CB. 

I think it's a pipedream though, if we were at all considering it we would have added a CM or two for depth and not sold Iredale as our only natural LB. 

 

I've put like a depth chart together, you can see it's very thin/weak in key areas. 

That's deeper than @Smiley's pockets.

[gonzo]

20 minutes ago, Stig said:

Full backs

There won't be many clubs in our division will a collection of full backs as good as that.

One was voted by other players as the best in the division last season btw.

[meanderson93]

42 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I don't see one area where it's thin or weak.

Well I suppose the left back is a centre back and the backups are two wingers and a right back.

My other worry would be centre mid personally, think if you lost Matete you're right back to the issue we have now with either a lack of quality on the ball or a lack of physicality.

I think if the plan was to ever consider switching to this we'd have kept Iredale and Morley/Khumbeni around the squad.

[Steejay]

Can Arfield play CM? He’s the one that I’m finding a bit confusing?

If he can cover there, great, if not, I think we’re still weak in that area.

Also, didn’t think that he was a forward , before he came here.

[Stig]

58 minutes ago, gonzo said:

There won't be many clubs in our division will a collection of full backs as good as that.

One was voted by other players as the best in the division last season btw.

They're all wing backs or a centre back though

[embankment]

MK Don's after him according to Nixon

[embankment]

Or Neil Hart 

 

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, DazBob said:

Aye, most clubs in this division would love to have that kind of depth.

I suppose most clubs in the Prem would love to have the talent and depth that Man U have.  But being better than most clubs isn't the target.  The depth is decent, we'll always be able to field a competitive L1 team even if we have a load of injuries, but IMO the players and tactics (eg defending set pieces) are short of the quality needed compared to the clubs that will win stuff. 

We've got plenty good players and strength in depth but we continue to have iffy wingbacks, poor set piece delivery, lack of players that can shoot or cross well, lack of physicality especially up front and at full back.  We'll win plenty games and finish top half but clearly something missing if we want top 6 and more IMO.     

[Mantra]

interesting discussion on playing out from the back here from:-

14:40 - 16:00  

and

17:10 - 21:10

[Zog1]

1 hour ago, Mantra said:

interesting discussion on playing out from the back here from:-

14:40 - 16:00  

and

17:10 - 21:10

An amazing vindication of the points I identified 2 years ago.

[gonzo]

16 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

An amazing vindication of the points I identified 2 years ago.

Which were? 

 

 

[Mantra]

1 hour ago, Zog1 said:

An amazing vindication of the points I identified 2 years ago.

2 years ago was much earlier on in the journey and everything was on a good healthy trajectory… and we still are on a good one.

Moaning then just felt like moaning for the sake of it. If we’d had a direct style of football we could’ve complained about the opposite issues and we’d be in the same boat. Saying we need to be more progressive etc…

It’s only after reflection on two failed playoffs and the issues changing/repeating/becoming too frequent that more people are talking about it now.

Maybe we just need some fresh eyes and new direction. Maybe Evatt will still turn it round. Let’s see.

Think this possession style can be too much at times for the players to handle. And playing out from the back is a lot more common now, teams have learned how to better counter it. Evatt has to work out how to adapt to that now or his days are numbered.
 

[Zog1]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Which were? 

 

 

IE wants to ape Pep but fundamentally misunderstands that just copying one or two tactics, the formation and playing a short passing attacking football isn't enough. He acts like he's got given the cheat sheets to football. That by rigidly sticking to a way of play, he'll automatically win, this is enforced by the obsession with possession.

The actual structure of the team is wrong, this is why the ball gets rolled out to Santos and then he stands on it for 30 seconds. Not only does the person IE wants to ape, Pep switch things up tactically, he changes formations and even play styles semi regularly.

IE misunderstands that this is League One not the Premier League, not only are the players inferior, not as fast, good at passing etc, they play differently.

Edited September 5, 2024 by Zog1
-

[Zog1]

4 minutes ago, Mantra said:

2 years ago was much earlier on in the journey and everything was on a good healthy trajectory… and we still are on a good one.

Moaning then just felt like moaning for the sake of it. If we’d had a direct style of football we could’ve complained about the opposite issues and we’d be in the same boat. Saying we need to be more progressive etc…

It’s only after reflection on two failed playoffs and the issues changing/repeating/becoming too frequent that more people are talking about it now.

Maybe we just need some fresh eyes and new direction. Maybe Evatt will still turn it round. Let’s see.

Think this possession style can be too much at times for the players to handle. And playing out from the back is a lot more common now, teams have learned how to better counter it. Evatt has to work out how to adapt to that now or his days are numbered.
 

Rewatch us in the 22/23 season it's a mirror image to now. The issues are identical, it's just teams at this level hadn't really figured out how this system works, once you do it's basic stuff to counter. Evatt doesn't learn and he doesn't want to. He thinks he's better than League One and that anyone that doesn't agree with his cheat sheet is a moron.

[Ani]

47 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

Rewatch us in the 22/23 season it's a mirror image to now. The issues are identical, it's just teams at this level hadn't really figured out how this system works, once you do it's basic stuff to counter. Evatt doesn't learn and he doesn't want to. He thinks he's better than League One and that anyone that doesn't agree with his cheat sheet is a moron.

So two years ago teams had not figured it out, so you are saying it was a good tactic then ? 
 

I have been banging on about us needing a 'proper' midfielder for years but so far we have got by. 
 

There was a comment in the Shrewsbury commentary that Evatt said he would not sign a player like him if he was a manager. Which given he was a no nonsense defender who played in the Premier League maybe highlights his issue. Being a good solid defender seems to get forgotten. 

[royal white]

1 hour ago, Zog1 said:

IE wants to ape Pep but fundamentally misunderstands that just copying one or two tactics, the formation and playing a short passing attacking football isn't enough. He acts like he's got given the cheat sheets to football. That by rigidly sticking to a way of play, he'll automatically win, this is enforced by the obsession with possession.

The actual structure of the team is wrong, this is why the ball gets rolled out to Santos and then he stands on it for 30 seconds. Not only does the person IE wants to ape, Pep switch things up tactically, he changes formations and even play styles semi regularly.

IE misunderstands that this is League One not the Premier League, not only are the players inferior, not as fast, good at passing etc, they play differently.

I’ve just posted this in one of the other topics. The episode speaks about how teams try to copy Pep’s teams but don’t have the same quality. Keane nails it. 
 

 

[Zog1]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

So two years ago teams had not figured it out, so you are saying it was a good tactic then ? 
 

I have been banging on about us needing a 'proper' midfielder for years but so far we have got by. 
 

There was a comment in the Shrewsbury commentary that Evatt said he would not sign a player like him if he was a manager. Which given he was a no nonsense defender who played in the Premier League maybe highlights his issue. Being a good solid defender seems to get forgotten. 

When we were first promoted playing 4231, we struggled, so in Jan 2022 IE switched us to 532. It worked and made us conceded less goals. Opposition teams were confused, they were being attacked from what they viewed as a defensive formation.

However, once teams figured out what we were doing, they kept getting better and better. This was then masked by a massive improvement in the players in the 22/23 season, with us signing players more suited to that new formation, followed by another increase 23/24 which coupled with that years lack of big clubs.

This in total has created an illusion of a team getting better and better, a team in 9th, then 5th and 3rd. The players are better sure, but the team is now being held back by a manager out of his depth.

 

[desperado]

5 hours ago, Zog1 said:

This in total has created an illusion

The only illusion at play here is that our deteriorating fortunes have caused you to come back on here thinking you’re an expert (you are/were never on here when things are/were good) to spout your negativity.

Which somehow allows you some leverage to say you were right all along, and gain some credit for it as if you are a master tactician who knows better.

It might not happen now, but IE turning  this round, would have its many benefits, one of which would be less bile and claims of “I told you so” from the likes of you.

Edited September 6, 2024 by desperado

[tomski]

18 minutes ago, desperado said:

The only illusion at play here is that our deteriorating fortunes have caused you to come back on here thinking you’re an expert (you are/were never on here when things are/were good) to spout your negativity.

Which somehow allows you some leverage to say you were right all along, and gain some credit for it as if you are a master tactician who knows better.

It might not happen now, but IE turning  this round, would have its many benefits, one of which would be less bile and claims of “I told you so” from the likes of you.

Taking out the ‘I called it 2 years ago bit’ as I’ve no idea if he had or hasn’t. (Im included to say he did)His last few posts are absolutely spot on sadly.

We have been sussed out.

If you take the subjectivity out of the narrative, it can’t be argued mate.