Stevenage (A)

[masi 51]

1 minute ago, Tombwfc said:

Seems bizarre that after any away win people talk as though they've picked the team for the next 20 games.

We won't be playing the same formation every game from now on with the same 11 starting 90% of the time. It just won't happen so it's pointless to argue it.

Certainly will start like this away, home he may go for two wingers but i am not sure he will

Currently we do not have a squad to play this system for the last 20 games all depends who he brings in

[masi 51]

5 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

Seems bizarre that after any away win people talk as though they've picked the team for the next 20 games.

We won't be playing the same formation every game from now on with the same 11 starting 90% of the time. It just won't happen so it's pointless to argue it.

It will happen  teams have worked us out with 2 wingers, we dont have a good ten and one forward means he gets no service.

Add that to our two centre backs pedestrian play and our full backs being caught upfield allowing the opposition to knock it long into the channels

SS and his coaching team have worked what is right and i doubt we will go back

[Rival Son]

What will happen is that other managers will work out this formation, as well. What we have introduced is a variation to how we set up. As @Tombwfc rightly says, yesterday does not mean we will play like this for the remaining 20 matches.

it will, however, keep opposition managers guessing as to how we may approach a game. We should be no more wedded to this system, as to two wingers, or any other combination.

The squad needs players who can adapt to this variation. Not players who are one-dimensional in a single role, and to recruit as such would be a folly.

[Tombwfc]

6 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

It will happen  teams have worked us out with 2 wingers, we dont have a good ten and one forward means he gets no service.

Add that to our two centre backs pedestrian play and our full backs being caught upfield allowing the opposition to knock it long into the channels

SS and his coaching team have worked what is right and i doubt we will go back

 

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you were the person on here during the summer saying that Erhahon and Simons would start every game and there'd be no room for Sheehan. No point signing a striker because Dalby was going to play every game etc.

Yesterday was great, it was one game. Against a team we've beaten playing multiple formations this year. The next time we lose a game people will move on to the next formation we need to be playing and want half the team who played yesterday dropped.

[masi 51]

8 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you were the person on here during the summer saying that Erhahon and Simons would start every game and there'd be no room for Sheehan. No point signing a striker because Dalby was going to play every game etc.

Yesterday was great, it was one game. Against a team we've beaten playing multiple formations this year. The next time we lose a game people will move on to the next formation we need to be playing and want half the team who played yesterday dropped.

Dalby was injured pre-season....I wanted Jatta or Kenny.... Sheehan has raised his game this season because the previous management team did not play him to his strengths

You may well be right about the next time we lose we may again talk about formations

We may go back to both wingers at home i have no ideas to SS thoughts.......What i do know both systems have two in midfield and Sheehan and Dempsey are our more creative midfielders but we HAVE to play with one defensive midfielder in the team.....People surely can see that

[wakey]

Given how we all really love stats 😁 here's the passing comparison of Sheehan and Simons from yesterday:

Simons

Assists0

Key passes

0

Crosses (accurate)2 (0)

Accurate passes28/37 (76%)

Passes in opposition half (acc.)14/21 (67%)

Passes in own half (acc.)14/16 (88%)

Long balls (accurate)1/4 (25%)

 

Sheehan

Assists0

Key passes

3

Crosses (accurate)9 (5)

Accurate passes48/55 (87%)

Passes in opposition half (acc.)32/39 (82%)

Passes in own half (acc.)16/16 (100%)

Long balls (accurate)8/12 (67%)

 

Edited January 18 by wakey

[gonzo]

Only one kick mattered yesterday

[Eddie]

Simons wasn’t defensive yesterday.

Sheehan sat as the ‘pivot’ and dictated things. ACD and Simons played ahead of him as 2x 8s.

ACD is far more attacking minded and so plays that role in that way. Simons is more of a centre mid and so played the role reflecting it - he wasn’t defensive though, he was playing on the left side ahead of Sheehan with the job of joining Conway and Johnston.

That role is absolutely far and away where Dempsey is most effective. It’s made for him and he showed it when he came on. I’m not saying he should start on Tuesday but if that is our new way of playing then it will get the best out of Dempsey.

Gale is the one that loses out in this formation. I’m not sure where he fits as I wouldn’t back him to play in that 8 role like ACD can. Maybe he could play off Dalby up top but it’s a stretch.

[RUREADY2ROLL]

2 hours ago, masi 51 said:

We wont nor should we go back to the same system pre yesterday. We have gone from a squad with many options to a very limited one if we deploy the same as Yesterday. The back 5 cannot change, we could have played Forrester and Cogley but that is now not a option.......Taylor and Christie are surplus and would not be considered in a back 5...Erhahon can swap with Simons. Dempsey/Morley for Sheehan  Gale for ACD and Mcatee for Either Dalby/Burstow.

If we keep a back 5 until the end of the season a right wing back and centre back needs bringing  in asap a week after we got rid of one of each.

Taylor

Christy

one of Dempsey/Morley

Forss

Randall

Cissoko

Those 6 will struggle to get another game this season and if we move them on maybe better for all involved

 

Dempsey and Morley would get a game. Agree we should try and clear out the rest and bring in a striker and a wing back (new Irish lad could back up the centre halves

[Eddie]

I’ll put my neck on the line and say that Forss might just prove what he can do if he’s up top with Dalby as a front 2.

He’s not a 10, he’s not a winger and he’s not a lone striker, so the previous system really didn’t suit him and he’s looked a bit shit post Wigan.

However, he can finish and he’s got some pace so playing off Dalby and finishing chances (id back him to have scored Burstow’s chance yesterday) might just get the best out of him.

The more I think about it, the more I think this system suits more of our players than it doesn’t. As others have said, the ability to go back to 4231 is great, and I need to be careful of getting too carried away given how shit Wigan were, but I do think it makes more sense when you look at whether each of the players is more or less comfortable in that system.

[Farnywhite]

If we start playing a back 5 more regularly and only one wingers  teams will start doubling up on ACD  much harder to double up on one winger if you play 2 . So might get more out of ACD if he as the freedom to play were he wants swap wings or drop into the middle and pick the ball up and run at them like Paris did 

[TM Trotter]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’ll put my neck on the line and say that Forss might just prove what he can do if he’s up top with Dalby as a front 2.

He’s not a 10, he’s not a winger and he’s not a lone striker, so the previous system really didn’t suit him and he’s looked a bit shit post Wigan.

However, he can finish and he’s got some pace so playing off Dalby and finishing chances (id back him to have scored Burstow’s chance yesterday) might just get the best out of him.

The more I think about it, the more I think this system suits more of our players than it doesn’t. As others have said, the ability to go back to 4231 is great, and I need to be careful of getting too carried away given how shit Wigan were, but I do think it makes more sense when you look at whether each of the players is more or less comfortable in that system.

I'd agree with you on Forss. I thought yesterday would have suited him down to the ground, picking up from Dalby (who I thought had his best game for us).

As you and others have said, the ability to now flex system/formation and not be so damn predictable will be huge. Starting to get the positivity back!

[frank_spencer]

10 minutes ago, TM Trotter said:

I'd agree with you on Forss. I thought yesterday would have suited him down to the ground, picking up from Dalby (who I thought had his best game for us).

As you and others have said, the ability to now flex system/formation and not be so damn predictable will be huge. Starting to get the positivity back!

Beat Stevenage and HMS Piss The League may be getting ready to leave port, lose and we're back to being shit and SS should be sacked. 😁

[ianofcleveleys]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’ll put my neck on the line and say that Forss might just prove what he can do if he’s up top with Dalby as a front 2.

He’s not a 10, he’s not a winger and he’s not a lone striker, so the previous system really didn’t suit him and he’s looked a bit shit post Wigan.

However, he can finish and he’s got some pace so playing off Dalby and finishing chances (id back him to have scored Burstow’s chance yesterday) might just get the best out of him.

The more I think about it, the more I think this system suits more of our players than it doesn’t. As others have said, the ability to go back to 4231 is great, and I need to be careful of getting too carried away given how shit Wigan were, but I do think it makes more sense when you look at whether each of the players is more or less comfortable in that system.

There was more than one reason why yesterday was better, but that shape was the main one, because, as you say, it suited and got more out of a number of players who'd been struggling. 

We looked more solid at the back, Tutu and Conway could get into normal-side crossing positions, Dalby got more to feed off. All that tempered a bit by Wigan being the worst side we've played this season, others may find it out better than them, but its worth using again, especially as a basis for getting more points away.

@Tombwfcand others are right, not saying that'll be us every game till May but if it were used again and suit us again it may well be a system SS is happy to add to his mix.

There have been many examples down the years of managers waiting till crisis time before trying something different, or stumbling upon it through circumstance, SS had arguably got to that point yesterday, good for him and all concerned that it worked 

[Ratwhite]

3 hours ago, gonzo said:

Only one kick mattered yesterday

💯 💙⚽️

[TM Trotter]

1 hour ago, frank_spencer said:

Beat Stevenage and HMS Piss The League may be getting ready to leave port, lose and we're back to being shit and SS should be sacked. 😁

Hah, indeed. For what it's worth, I don't think sacking SS was even worth discussing, but I am glad he's been a bit humble, listened to the fans (or rather, tempered his own ego) and found an alternative way of playing.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, TM Trotter said:

Hah, indeed. For what it's worth, I don't think sacking SS was even worth discussing, but I am glad he's been a bit humble, listened to the fans (or rather, tempered his own ego) and found an alternative way of playing.

Fair assessment. 

I'm guessing that that was the stickiest patch of his managerial career.

Even if it wasn't, it will have been a lesson to him.

Lots more to do of course, but he and the players can breathe a bit more easily now.

[Wanderlust]

11 hours ago, TM Trotter said:

Hah, indeed. For what it's worth, I don't think sacking SS was even worth discussing, but I am glad he's been a bit humble, listened to the fans (or rather, tempered his own ego) and found an alternative way of playing.

I agree but there were a couple of questionable judgments to be considered in the light of poor results, however he rallied in the Wigan game and despite that it’s still in the balance depending on what happens going forward.

The Xmas period was the first time he has come under widespread scrutiny but all things considered he does have to contend with a lot of issues including budget, form and player quality so going forward it will be a matter of trying to differentiate between manager performance and player performance to decide if  he’s the right man for us.

[Chrisj]

If we are playing a two up the McAtee has to stay as he was the one that linked up with Dalby the best

[gonzo]

1 hour ago, Chrisj said:

If we are playing a two up the McAtee has to stay as he was the one that linked up with Dalby the best

He was like the lad we saw in the play off game for Barnsley on Sat.

Proper pest, exactly what we needed.

[SalCity Biggie]

I'm wondering/hoping that we keep the same formation as what we played against Wigan, but I can't see it. It was good to see something different, but also similar to what Schumacher played at Plymouth, hopefully this is the formation and lineup, with the slightest of tweaks now and again, to get us back on track.

[Eddie]

24 minutes ago, SalCity Biggie said:

I'm wondering/hoping that we keep the same formation as what we played against Wigan, but I can't see it. It was good to see something different, but also similar to what Schumacher played at Plymouth, hopefully this is the formation and lineup, with the slightest of tweaks now and again, to get us back on track.

Out of interest, why couldn’t you see it?

Seems like the obvious thing for me, especially away from home. I don’t see why it would just be a one off thing against Wigan - it wouldn’t make sense.

Same set up with 1, possibly 2 changes for me.

McAtee or Forss in for Burstow

Potentially Erhahon in for Simons - although I’d rather leave as much of the team the same as possible.

[Zico]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Out of interest, why couldn’t you see it?

Seems like the obvious thing for me, especially away from home. I don’t see why it would just be a one off thing against Wigan - it wouldn’t make sense.

Same set up with 1, possibly 2 changes for me.

McAtee or Forss in for Burstow

Potentially Erhahon in for Simons - although I’d rather leave as much of the team the same as possible.

Personnel changes maybe but if he doesn't play 3-4-3 again he's fucking mental

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

He was like the lad we saw in the play off game for Barnsley on Sat.

Proper pest, exactly what we needed.

He seemed more pacey somehow, a bit leaner maybe?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

38 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Out of interest, why couldn’t you see it?

Seems like the obvious thing for me, especially away from home. I don’t see why it would just be a one off thing against Wigan - it wouldn’t make sense.

Same set up with 1, possibly 2 changes for me.

McAtee or Forss in for Burstow

Potentially Erhahon in for Simons - although I’d rather leave as much of the team the same as possible.

I read it as she doesn't think SS will continue it, but that it would be a good idea to do so.

We'll see soon enough if he sticks with it, or reverts.