No tags, links or clips by myself

Just a recommendation which I've mentioned before 

Watch Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis 

It's the closest explanation I've seen to our relatively modern fucked up world

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I genuinely hope you're right. Putting my cards on the table tonight - I think it will be a lot more complicated and bloody than you do.

He’s a fucking bulb, and you know it.

The liklehood is that the regime had a plan for this and a brutal clampdown will be incoming for the Iranians.

It will require boots on the ground because the Iranian Guard and military will not simply lay down their weapons and go and sit on Trumps knee. If they do, then even I will concede he’s done well.

Trump needs to back this up properly, and not ride off into the sunset expecting others to change his nappy like they do at his digs in Washington and Florida 

10 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I genuinely hope you're right. Putting my cards on the table tonight - I think it will be a lot more complicated and bloody than you do.

You are descending into hyperbole,

Won't be easy, of course it won't but the starting point for something infinitely better has to be the removal of these vicious and primitive bastards. Not just good for the non islamist fanatical Iranians but good for the world.

13 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Never assume. It makes an ass of u and me

No answer eh? I'll take it that you think they should have been left alone then.

8 minutes ago, Spider said:

He’s a fucking bulb, and you know it.

The liklehood is that the regime had a plan for this and a brutal clampdown will be incoming for the Iranians.

It will require boots on the ground because the Iranian Guard and military will not simply lay down their weapons and go and sit on Trumps knee. If they do, then even I will concede he’s done well.

Trump needs to back this up properly, and not ride off into the sunset expecting others to change his nappy like they do at his digs in Washington and Florida 

Maybe there's a little optimism and idealism left in me. I don't know what the strength of feeling in Iran is against the regime. Or whether there's a realistic opposition. And maybe the optics of there not being 'boots on the ground' might help? 

But I think it's much more likely that this is a miscalculation of the sort that Putin made when he mistakenly thought Ukraine would just roll over. 

4 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

You are descending into hyperbole,

Won't be easy, of course it won't but the starting point for something infinitely better has to be the removal of these vicious and primitive bastards. Not just good for the non islamist fanatical Iranians but good for the world.

What I said was actually the opposite of hyperbole. Ironically language like 'infinitely better' is much closer to hyperbole - as in deliberate exaggeration for effect. 

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

 

But I think it's much more likely that this is a miscalculation of the sort that Putin made when he mistakenly thought Ukraine would just roll over. 

 Sorry pal but there really is no comparison. Comparing Putin and his forces to what the US is capable of unleashing is like comparing Rotherham to Real Madrid.

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

What I said was actually the opposite of hyperbole. Ironically language like 'infinitely better' is much closer to hyperbole - as in deliberate exaggeration for effect. 

You were deliberately exaggerating my position. Yes or no. Nowhere have I said it will be easy. Winning the 'war' will be, winning the peace a lot more difficult but a start has to be made somewhere along the line.

If you cared to check back, I have said on many occasions that we should have left Saddam, Gaddafi etc. alone to keep their crazies under.

The difference here is that the crazies are calling the shots in Iran and must be removed.

Simple yes or no. Do you think the current Iranian regime should have been left completely alone? If the answer is yes, I am sure that a few marches will become available to you very soon.

21 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

No answer eh? I'll take it that you think they should have been left alone then.

You’ve made your mind up either way. Crack on

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

As will be the inevitable shitshow that follows. 

Yep. Sadly we’ve been here before. We can argue the rights and wrongs but it never ends well. Strike hard, engender a change but have no follow-up plan to make the world a better place. Rinse and repeat

😄😄 The Don

 

 

9 hours ago, royal white said:

No shit Batman, he got his man without carrying out a full scale invasion

But Iraq & Afghanistan were never about just getting one man.

No US president is going to come in & fully invade Iran. There’s just not the appetite for it given the failures of previous Middle East wars. Nothing unique about what Trumps done. 
 

Its like you have him down as some sort of military genius 😂

8 hours ago, bolty58 said:

You were deliberately exaggerating my position. Yes or no. Nowhere have I said it will be easy. Winning the 'war' will be, winning the peace a lot more difficult but a start has to be made somewhere along the line.

If you cared to check back, I have said on many occasions that we should have left Saddam, Gaddafi etc. alone to keep their crazies under.

The difference here is that the crazies are calling the shots in Iran and must be removed.

Simple yes or no. Do you think the current Iranian regime should have been left completely alone? If the answer is yes, I am sure that a few marches will become available to you very soon.

That isn't hyberbole.

Anyway, why do people who hold silly positions always say - 'simple yes or no'?

Its almost like complexity makes their head hurt.

If i ever hear that in a conversation, I always know the person is a plank, and best avoided.

 

9 hours ago, mickbrown said:

You’ve made your mind up either way. Crack on

I certainly have re Iran. Not about you my erstwhile adversary.

10 hours ago, bolty58 said:

The same rent a mob who are pro Palestinian, anti oil, anti Israel, anti Trump, apparently pro Green etc.

...oh, and a similar rent a mob have been causing aggro re the gay mardi gras in Sydney. You can see where the seeds of the UK Greens inevitable implosion are.

 

16 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

...oh, and a similar rent a mob have been causing aggro re the gay mardi gras in Sydney. You can see where the seeds of the UK Greens inevitable implosion are.

 

Bolty

Dahhhhlling

Its 2026, we won’t judge you like we might have 40 years ago. We’re tolerant and encourage you to be whoever or whatever you want to be. You’ll be less angry once it’s all out in the open.

Dont get me wrong, you’re in your 70’s now and it’s probably on the late side, but there’s probably an app for elderly twinks you can use

 

11 hours ago, Spider said:

He’s a fucking bulb, and you know it.

The liklehood is that the regime had a plan for this and a brutal clampdown will be incoming for the Iranians.

It will require boots on the ground because the Iranian Guard and military will not simply lay down their weapons and go and sit on Trumps knee. If they do, then even I will concede he’s done well.

Trump needs to back this up properly, and not ride off into the sunset expecting others to change his nappy like they do at his digs in Washington and Florida 

Probably too far for Israeli settlers.

More seriously I am dreading a peacekeeping coalition such as we were part of after the last show in Iraq

 

10 hours ago, MancWanderer said:

Yep. Sadly we’ve been here before. We can argue the rights and wrongs but it never ends well. Strike hard, engender a change but have no follow-up plan to make the world a better place. Rinse and repeat

We aren't learning from history are we?

Iraq is only just recovering and Libya is still a failed state

Looks like Iran are out of the world cup 

Knowing FIFA they’ll probably grant Israel a spot

11 hours ago, bolty58 said:

You were deliberately exaggerating my position. Yes or no. Nowhere have I said it will be easy. Winning the 'war' will be, winning the peace a lot more difficult but a start has to be made somewhere along the line.

If you cared to check back, I have said on many occasions that we should have left Saddam, Gaddafi etc. alone to keep their crazies under.

The difference here is that the crazies are calling the shots in Iran and must be removed.

Simple yes or no. Do you think the current Iranian regime should have been left completely alone? If the answer is yes, I am sure that a few marches will become available to you very soon.

No

12 hours ago, kent_white said:

Here is a list of logical fallacies. Yours is listed here as the black-or-white fallacy. Sometimes called the 'false dichotomy fallacy'.

There are a huge spectrum of positions between 'celebrate their demise' and 'leave them alone completely' as you well know! 

Great stuff. Not seen this before. Nicely explains the mindset of the blindness pro-Trump/IDF/Farage folk have on here…..if you’re against X you must be for Y.

Nope.

Edited March 1Mar 1 by Bertie

11 hours ago, bolty58 said:

You were deliberately exaggerating my position. Yes or no. Nowhere have I said it will be easy. Winning the 'war' will be, winning the peace a lot more difficult but a start has to be made somewhere along the line.

If you cared to check back, I have said on many occasions that we should have left Saddam, Gaddafi etc. alone to keep their crazies under.

The difference here is that the crazies are calling the shots in Iran and must be removed.

Simple yes or no. Do you think the current Iranian regime should have been left completely alone? If the answer is yes, I am sure that a few marches will become available to you very soon.

I'm not deliberately exaggerating anything. And if I've misunderstood your thinking on this then I apologise and I'm happy for me to put you right. 

What I have said is that I imagine we're about to enter a period of turmoil in Iran that none of us really understand. And that of the two of us - you seem to be more confident that I am that the end is going to justify the means. And that you have a higher appetite for risk than me. 

I know what your position on Iraq and Lybia was - which is why I'm surprised about why you've taken what seems to be a contradictory position here. 

5 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

But Iraq & Afghanistan were never about just getting one man.

No US president is going to come in & fully invade Iran. There’s just not the appetite for it given the failures of previous Middle East wars. Nothing unique about what Trumps done. 
 

Its like you have him down as some sort of military genius 😂

Neither is this but it’s high on the their list of priorities and it’s better than a cock and bull story like WOMD. 
 

Why didn’t they kill Sadam and Obama in a day if it’s not unique? 

Massive celebration in St Peter's Square at the minute Iranian, USA and Israeli flags being waved all about.

14 hours ago, MancWanderer said:

Yep. Sadly we’ve been here before. We can argue the rights and wrongs but it never ends well. Strike hard, engender a change but have no follow-up plan to make the world a better place. Rinse and repeat

What is the alternative?

Do nowt, allow them to continue, grow and export more and more terrorism.

No one knows for sure what plans there are for what comes next.

Allowing the people to make that decision, and provide assistance seems to be the best way forward.

In the end though, we either deal with the situation there is now, or not.

If the situation is viewed as so dangerous now, then it has to be dealt with, and what comes next has to take second place.

Nothing was done about Russia annexing part of Ukraine in 2014, and that went very well.

Seeing their people on the streets there, and elsewhere celebrating the removal of the top man is good enough for me.