Boothy Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I have made a point contradictory to that. That anti-semitism wasn't fundementally a 'Nazi thing' and was widespread in Europe pre-1933. So we are in agreement? Nit picking points and coming up with random counter-arguments that bear no relation to the what was said is hardly 'challenging opinion'. Your 'murdering 3,000,000' a sterling example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted February 23, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2012 The vast majority of the populace hadn't much of a clue about the final solution and other vile goings on. Chinese whispers syndrome and rumours maybe. aye, you can pretty much guarantee that virtually all them german soldiers on the front line wouldn't have been aware of auschwitz and the like, half the hierarchy weren't aware either, and of them that were, not all of them were into it - most were just fighting for their country, because that's what you do, unaware the leader of the country was up to what he was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 aye, you can pretty much guarantee that virtually all them german soldiers on the front line wouldn't have been aware of auschwitz and the like, half the hierarchy weren't aware either, and of them that were, not all of them were into it - most were just fighting for their country, because that's what you do, unaware the leader of the country was up to what he was Spot on. Much of the Landwehr were professional military men who were, in many ways, despised by Hitler and his henchmen and the feeling was mutual. We can't know exactly what many of these people felt when the full horror was revealed to them but it would be fair to guess that their revulsion and feeling of being utterly fooled would have been as intense as you could ever experience. Getting back to the thread title, however, the book is a 'must read' in my opinion. A stark reminder of how giddy times of power can degenerate in the most appalling depths of human filth and indecency. Personally, I would have it on school curricula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted February 23, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2012 I fancy this book now found one 2nd hand online for ?6 I'll be honest, 1400 pages is putting me off is it big or small print? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I fancy this book now found one 2nd hand online for ?6 I'll be honest, 1400 pages is putting me off is it big or small print? It's not something you'd read cover to cover, more of a reference work in my opinion. Most chapters stand alone - I used it first to get a background on Operation Barbarossa, then read other chapters non-sequentially. The print is small in my copy - which fell off the shelf once and split the binding under it's own weight (to give you a further idea of how hefty it is). Edited February 23, 2012 by Youri McAnespie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Small print, 200 - 300 pages of that are just references from his research though, so you dont count them. It is split into a few different 'books' so you can come back to it at different points. I would definately recommend it, it is the seminal work on the Nazi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofBurnden Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 One of the great things the allies did was parade the locals around the death camps to show them what they had been supporting - inadvertently or otherwise. Not to mention filtering out the staunch Nazis from the POW's who were imprisoned on these shores and then re-educating the remainder in the principles of democracy before sending them back to Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjayoghani Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I would definately recommend it, it is the seminal work on the Nazi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Not to mention filtering out the staunch Nazis from the POW's who were imprisoned on these shores and then re-educating the remainder in the principles of democracy before sending them back to Germany. How did that work then? 'Now then Hans, you've been here eight years now - What do you feel about Herr Hitler?' 'Ach Ja, Hitler he was being a tosser yes? Also I am hearing he had unt one ball - very amusing no? Can I go now?' 'OK, you get off home to Germany, but think on!' Edited February 23, 2012 by Youri McAnespie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 How did that work then? 'Now then Hans, you've been here eight years now - What do you feel about Herr Hitler?' 'Ach Ja, Hitler he was being a tosser yes? Also I am hearing he had unt one ball - very amusing no? Can I go now?' 'OK, you get off home to Germany, but think on!' We will need your grandkids to bail out the rest of europe in about 70 years if that is OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewman Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 we should of mobbed up with the germans, but instead of going for the jews, should of started at the bottom of africa and worked their way up then through asia, job done, no immigration problem today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I fancy this book now found one 2nd hand online for ?6 I'll be honest, 1400 pages is putting me off is it big or small print? In that case, the audiobook is your friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is completely out of left field but, I was watching the Stuart Pearce press conference this morning and, paint on a black brush head moustache and.................................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter fatolive Posted February 23, 2012 Site Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2012 Not to mention filtering out the staunch Nazis from the POW's who were imprisoned on these shores and then re-educating the remainder in the principles of democracy before sending them back to Germany. Grandfather came over from Ireland to guard POW's up in Cumbria, always used to say they were just normal lads who happened to be on a different side, reckons they were genuinely horrified when shown the images of the concentration camps and stats on the round up of jews etc, just as horrified as he was when shown what he was going to be showing them. Nowt to do with the subject, but my uncle still has a silver cigarette box with a German regiment badge on and a picture of some German woman inside, obviously a sweetheart of a prisoner, should have it looked at and valued/displayed somewhere I think, but he just keeps it in the display cabinet at home. and the sweetheart, the picture is from he neck up so I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I've just watched 'the king's speech ' It occurred to me what would have been different if Edward hadn't abdicated Would we have been different/better under a German regime, would we be any worse than what we have now Don't get me wrong I detest what happened in WWII, but I look at the state of our country , and our economy, and I wonder where have we gone wrong The German economy is better, I doubt they ave the statistics I heard yesterday that the capital has more immigrant parents than national parents. Are their crimes rates as bad as ours? Are their prisoners allowed the same benefits as ours Internet, mobiles, marital visits? Is their NHS paying for every foreigners health care and the expense of their own elderly? Edited February 23, 2012 by Mona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I've just watched 'the king's speech ' It occurred to me what would have been different if Edward hadn't abdicated Would we have been different/better under a German regime, would we be any worse than what we have now Some of us would be dead, I'd say that's worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I've just watched 'the king's speech ' It occurred to me what would have been different if Edward hadn't abdicated Would we have been different/better under a German regime, would we be any worse than what we have now Don't get me wrong I detest what happened in WWII, but I look at the state of our country , and our economy, and I wonder where have we gone wrong The German economy is better, I doubt they ave the statistics I heard yesterday that the capital has more immigrant parents than national parents. Are their crimes rates as bad as ours? Are their prisoners allowed the same benefits as ours Internet, mobiles, marital visits? Is their NHS paying for every foreigners health care and the expense of their own elderly? Germany has prospered as a result of propping up operations/investment after the war by the West. Huge amount of dosh went into rebuilding the place. Also, they have had democracy since 1946 helping business flourish. Don't make the mistake of thinking things would have been better if the Nazis had won. We would have been under the same jackboot as the rest of the world. There would be only one 'master race'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 NB , I don't wish to offend you, if I had any religion I would be Jewish, because it's the only religion that make any sense to me I'm just pissed at the state of our country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no balls Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) No offence taken. I just found your theorising bizarre knowing what you must do of the Nazi regime. Edited February 23, 2012 by no balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just for the record, I love Germany and the Germans. I am a fairly regular visitor and am full of admiration for DB and the general efficiency with which most things run. Historical fact that we are brothers. This does not change things when we meet them on the football field however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewman Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just for the record, I love Germany and the Germans. I am a fairly regular visitor and am full of admiration for DB and the general efficiency with which most things run. Historical fact that we are brothers. This does not change things when we meet them on the football field however. undefeated in germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I know this , my mum lost three brothers in WWII , my husband lost his uncle at Arnhem . We have friends in Holland , who will never forget what the Germans did to them My oldest uncle died in Australia last year after serving with the British army , and then the Australian army He never forgot what he saw, and was bitter to the very end. So yes I know what the war did to families Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernStr Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 In that case, the audiobook is your friend Send me a memory stick and you can have the audio book. An excellent listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawley Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Irony should be the title of this thread. The treat of Versallies bankrupted Germany, they had no hope, no belief and they fell upon a strong leader and persecuted those in their country who they felt ere doing the nationals outbid work. Economics breeds race hate more than anything. Why is it that the poorest parts of the country turn on British Asians? Because we all need someone to blame because of our own failings/gvt or parental. The BNP have no support in West Kensington or North Yorkshire. Funny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cureforsanity Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Like Bolty said, the allies poured money into Germany after the war and I assume that basically if it wasn't for that then the country would've become a wilderness. Take Volkswagen for instance, nobody after the war would touch it: "The Volkswagen factory at Wolfsburg came under British control in 1945; it was to be dismantled and shipped to Britain. Thankfully for Volkswagen, no British car manufacturer was interested in the factory; "the vehicle does not meet the fundamental technical requirement of a motor-car ? it is quite unattractive to the average buyer ? To build the car commercially would be a completely uneconomic enterprise". The factory survived by producing cars for the British Army instead. Allied dismantling policy changed in late 1946 to mid 1947, although heavy industry continued to be dismantled until 1951. Thanks to the protection of British Army Major Ivan Hirst, Volkswagen survived the perilous times, and became part of the German economic recovery and following economic miracle. Hateful hateful contraptions but proving the point that the British looked after the Germans post war in the fact that they wanted the post war Germany to survive and prosper. Mercedes-Benz BMW Bosch Krups Volkswagen Any more for any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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