Guest GudniB Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 There's gambling & then there's stupidity of chasing your losses by continuing to gamble. It was his business, his money & therefore he should have kept a tighter rein on it , he didn't & we're now in this position of nearly going bang. Yet he's still trying to get more money out of it & putting us further in risk of going bang. If he wants to cut his losses & run, then that's exactly what he should do. Not put more hurdles in the way. No-one knows what his losses truly are , though it's sure as eggs are eggs, it's not 173M. Maybe it's time for him to say his peace. We know precisely what his losses are to within a million or two and they are £170million plus unpaid interest (£24million) and unpaid player success fees (nearly £3million). He wasn't chasing losses. He was trying to retain Premiership status after Big Sam walked out, then trying to regain it, then trying to stop the further slide. When, in your opinion, should he have thrown in the towel and stopped funding the club? I expect his family would have been a lot happier if he had done it a lot sooner than he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 would i be right in thinking that the FA will be closed for the weekend so does this mean that we are totally reliant on the outcome of the court case on monday ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 We know precisely what his losses are to within a million or two and they are £170million plus unpaid interest (£24million) and unpaid player success fees (nearly £3million). He wasn't chasing losses. He was trying to retain Premiership status after Big Sam walked out, then trying to regain it, then trying to stop the further slide. When, in your opinion, should he have thrown in the towel and stopped funding the club? I expect his family would have been a lot happier if he had done it a lot sooner than he did. Are you working for ED? No one knows the full picture of what Eddie has spent all we have to go on is the filed accounts and we all know that these only tell part of the story lots of accounting tricks and hidden charges can muddy the waters. I think only very very few folk think he has lost the amount of cash in the accounts. Whatever he has lost would have been a whole lot less if he had paid more care and attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter HomerJay Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 MK, did ED kill your cat after bangin your missus and stealing your kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 MK, did ED kill your cat after bangin your missus and stealing your kids? No, but he's in danger of killing the club, and that's a close 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 Are you working for ED? No one knows the full picture of what Eddie has spent all we have to go on is the filed accounts and we all know that these only tell part of the story lots of accounting tricks and hidden charges can muddy the waters. I think only very very few folk think he has lost the amount of cash in the accounts. Whatever he has lost would have been a whole lot less if he had paid more care and attention. Are you working for an anti-ED group? No one knows the full picture of what Eddie has spent, all we have to go on is the filed accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) We've got some folk that think he's £170m out of pocket on one side then you've got others who believe he's had circa £500m out of it I'd guess he's put in around £50m (original £30m + extras along way £20m) I think over the 15 years in charge he's probably had that £50m back out here and there dependant on what he gets from the final handover (whoever gets it) It's still a fucking shambles as investments go, he'd have doubled that if he just stuck it in a high interest account. I bet his Mrs and kids has been giving him grief for years for fucking about with us. At the end of the day we were about to go bump when he took over and it looks like that will be the way he leaves us. All he has done in the interim is what no bank would do, lend us some money. My biggest bug bare with his tenure was that he never pulled the plug 2-3 years a go. We should have stopped signing players, cut the non playing budget in half, sold one of the training grounds, car parks etc etc back then and had our affairs in order. It would have gone down like a shit sandwhich but would have prolonged things. I just think long term we need a much leaner business model even if it means a smaller ground. We can't cover £10m a year non playing costs and pay for a football team without either premiere league TV revenue or a wealthy backer ready to lose his own money - we can't bank on either of those Edited March 4, 2016 by birch-chorley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOWTUN BAKED Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 When, in your opinion, should he have thrown in the towel and stopped funding the club? The question should be when do I think he should have controlled the costs & been more sensible about the outgoings compared to revenue. The answer is on here to read, I've been saying it for over 2 years. Should've cut our cloth accordingly when we didn't go straight back up. Yet we've continued to have over inflated squads on over inflated wages, in comparison with revenue. Madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryPorter Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Not going to get into 'how much ED has or has not put in'. I think it is still a considerable amount and those posting here, or on BN website that ED has actually made money out of BWFC are clearly mental. He has, however, allowed the situation to get totally out of control, and that is unforgivable. I do think that it is a good idea for ED to leave some personal debt in the Wanderers. He doesn't expect it back. The conditions he has set mean that he would only get anything if the good times returned. If he didn't leave some personal debt (to him) with the new owners then they could just asset strip and pay themselves first. Why would they sell off or mortgage assets if the first call on any funds was to the previous owner. It's a way of ensuring that he passes the club onto people with the right intentions. The fact that SS don't appear to have a pot to piss in is what worries me more. Oh, and by the way. Will people stop asking about the FA. It's the Football League that SS need to convince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) No, but he's in danger of killing the club, and that's a close 2nd.He really isn't MK. When will people realise this is a clusterfuck and not the Machiavellian work of one man? He exists in a financial stratosphere most of us won't ever be privy to. But, he still has a family and their future to consider and I expect they just don't want to bankroll a club at the expense of their inheritance. He also has a business empire to look after (I think, so don't crucify me on that...). He isn't sat in a castle on the Isle of Man stroking a cat, drinking Petrus and cackling like a maniac as the club suffers. He really really isn't. Edited March 4, 2016 by Spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I am fucked off with this, why should Davies be pissing about asking for this and that like a child. He owned the club and they have fucked it up, why should he get anything whether he is owed 15m or 180m, couldnt care less. As mounts said, less of a care free let PG do what the fuck he wanted attitude and we wouldnt be in this mess in the first place. Loans from shark companies and starting to sell off everything we own and then try and shift the club on to some dodgy cockneys who havent got any money and wont even tell us who the fuck they are. Cunts the lot of em. This is a football club not a carpet shop / butchers etc ffs. If ED had shown this much interest when contracts were being given out with no relegation clauses whilst we were appointing managers likely to get us relegated and I think we would be fine. I have my own small cafe and if I fucked it up royally then I lose out, I cant blame it on anyone else or ask anyone else to pay my bills. Only months ago we were shelling out 2m on a new scoreboard followed by not paying the staff their wages. I dont see a happy ending to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 I am fucked off with this, why should Davies be pissing about asking for this and that like a child. He owned the club and they have fucked it up, why should he get anything whether he is owed 15m or 180m, couldnt care less. As mounts said, less of a care free let PG do what the fuck he wanted attitude and we wouldnt be in this mess in the first place. Loans from shark companies and starting to sell off everything we own and then try and shift the club on to some dodgy cockneys who havent got any money and wont even tell us who the fuck they are. Cunts the lot of em. This is a football club not a carpet shop / butchers etc ffs. If ED had shown this much interest when contracts were being given out with no relegation clauses whilst we were appointing managers likely to get us relegated and I think we would be fine. I have my own small cafe and if I fucked it up royally then I lose out, I cant blame it on anyone else or ask anyone else to pay my bills. Only months ago we were shelling out 2m on a new scoreboard followed by not paying the staff their wages. I dont see a happy ending to this So you'd rather we hadn't signed Djorkaeff, Okocha et al? Just to clarify, like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 The question should be when do I think he should have controlled the costs & been more sensible about the outgoings compared to revenue. The answer is on here to read, I've been saying it for over 2 years. Should've cut our cloth accordingly when we didn't go straight back up. Yet we've continued to have over inflated squads on over inflated wages, in comparison with revenue. Madness He should have but he couldn't win either way ED has had dogs abuse for owning a company that paid its staff late in November 2015 How would it have gone down if 2-3 years a go he made half of the 300 staff redundant in an effort to cut the £10m non playing costs? In reality although those staff have had a tough few months recently most on here are now of the opinion he should have made them redundant years a go instead Either way he's going to upset folk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 So you'd rather we hadn't signed Djorkaeff, Okocha et al? Just to clarify, like. I think the point we started going tits up was when we started appointing shit managers and giving out massive contracts with no relegation clauses, I'm sure I wrote that. I think a team finishing regularly in the top 8 should be able to afford players like Djorkaeff and Okocha as long as you are planning for if things go pear shaped. I think we could have done without the new scoreboard, And I would have preferred we didn't sign Johan Elmander to clarify like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTheRave Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 ED didn't pay for the scoreboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I think the point we started going tits up was when we started appointing shit managers and giving out massive contracts with no relegation clauses, I'm sure I wrote that. I think a team finishing regularly in the top 8 should be able to afford players like Djorkaeff and Okocha as long as you are planning for if things go pear shaped. I think we could have done without the new scoreboard, And I would have preferred we didn't sign Johan Elmander to clarify like.Genuine question Can you put an approximate date when you'd have advised ED to follow this financial plan? Because most people thought our only chance of staying in the prem was to match the spending of clubs in the division. The fact the players mainly turned out to be Shite is irrelevant as that's the gamble. See Leicester for details of how that gamble can work for the better. Edited March 4, 2016 by Spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOWTUN BAKED Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 So you'd rather we hadn't signed Djorkaeff, Okocha et al? Just to clarify, like. How many times does it need to be repeated... We were making profit then! We were controlling costs then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Genuine question Can you put an approximate date when you'd have advised ED to follow this financial plan? Because most people thought our only chance of staying in the prem was to match the spending of clubs in the division. The fact the players mainly turned out to be Shite is irrelevant as that's the gamble. See Leicester for details of how that gamble can work for the better. So you wouldnt have put in relegation clauses? that would have been a start, particularly when signing players to hopefully get us out of the shit as opposed to finish in the top 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I think the point we started going tits up was when we started appointing shit managers and giving out massive contracts with no relegation clauses, I'm sure I wrote that. I think a team finishing regularly in the top 8 should be able to afford players like Djorkaeff and Okocha as long as you are planning for if things go pear shaped. I think we could have done without the new scoreboard, And I would have preferred we didn't sign Johan Elmander to clarify like. If Eddie had withdrawn financial support for signings fans would have gone mental. It was a bid damned if you do, damned if you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 How many times does it need to be repeated... We were making profit then! We were controlling costs then. So when things took a turn for the worse on the pitch, had ED made a statement saying "we are probably going down, so I'm stopping any investment to give us a chance of promotion" you'd have been OK with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 So you'd rather we hadn't signed Djorkaeff, Okocha et al? Just to clarify, like. It wasn't when we signed those 2 it went wrong it was way after that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 So you wouldnt have put in relegation clauses? that would have been a start, particularly when signing players to hopefully get us out of the shit as opposed to finish in the top 4. Which brings me neatly on to my main point - this is. It just about ED - he will have been advised by several others about every deal. I have said he isn't blameless, but for fucks sake when will everyone realise that a large number of people were starting to create the problems we now have. ED is guilty to a degree, but his main crime is that he was a fan - just like us - who's judgement was probably clouded on many occasions by the advice of those around him and his desire to see his beloved club succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Spider, just out of interest, do you think the club has been run well for the last 5 years? Should we be happy or do you think fans have a right to be upset at the current state of the club? So Bolton and Leicester did the same and it just luckily worked for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyldesley_white Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Mounts we took a gamble on Djorkaeff, Okochca and few others at the time and it worked, we later took a gamble on others later and it didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 4, 2016 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 Spider, just out of interest, do you think the club has been run well for the last 5 years? Should we be happy or do you think fans have a right to be upset at the current state of the club? So Bolton and Leicester did the same and it just luckily worked for them? Plainly it's been run badly, but it's ludicrous to blame one man. We are all pissed off, but let's be realistic and accept that many many factors have been at play here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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