Mounts Kipper Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sweep said: Agreed, I don't think we'll end up with "no deal" but I suspect we'll get a deal that's a bit shit and leaves us half in and half out, with us still paying masses of money on a yearly basis for access to the single market, and still allowing freedom of movement (or visa free travel as they'll call it, which is the same thing) - we'll also be aligned to the EU in such a way that we won't be allowed to negotiate our own "in dependant" trade deals with the rest of the world. Us leaving is the first step in a process which will ultimately lead to the EU failure that is unless they massively reform. Its the first chink in the armour and it won’t be the last. Edited September 20, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Nope there no suprise but surely you don’t think Brexit voters decisions would be swayed by the EU being difficult do you, in fact the EUs intransigence strengthens leavers resolve to leave and underlines what a fantastic decision it was that we voted out. If it was Germany or France leaving you’d want us to make their life as difficult as humanly possible. They are going to make us pay for this. And we almost certainly will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyldesley_white Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Us leaving is the first step in a process which will ultimately lead to the EU failure that is unless they massively reform. Its the first chink in the armour and it won’t be the last. Chink in the amour, if what sweep say happens then the UK as had its pants pulled down and been well and truly arse fucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted September 20, 2018 Moderators Share Posted September 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, gonzo said: If it was Germany or France leaving you’d want us to make their life as difficult as humanly possible. They are going to make us pay for this. And we almost certainly will. As we have to It was as clear as day our exit would be made as difficult as possible and anybody thinking they would, indeed should, let us cherry pick the good bits is dafter than even I thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Casino said: As we have to It was as clear as day our exit would be made as difficult as possible and anybody thinking they would, indeed should, let us cherry pick the good bits is dafter than even I thought You're forgetting that we hold all the cards, and they need us more than we need them. It'll all turn out as Mounts predicted, don't fret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted September 20, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, gonzo said: If it was Germany or France leaving you’d want us to make their life as difficult as humanly possible. They are going to make us pay for this. And we almost certainly will. If that was the case I'd be congratulating them, and talking about proper trade deals. 20 minutes ago, gonzo said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 The idea that we could pick and choose what we like and yet be outside has always, always been dismissed by the EU. They have always said it’s either the Norway model (which is politically unacceptable to us especially brexiteers), a new model where we remain in the EEA and customs union, or nothing, a new model whereby we leave everything and deal with a hard border or nothing. Those are the menu options and have always been the menu options. The idea we could change them was always fanciful. Take your pick because there will be a lot of words but essentially we have to pick one of those choices. Be like Norway and accept the rules with no say. Stay in, in all but name. Have a hard border with NI. Or take no deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The idea that we could pick and choose what we like and yet be outside has always, always been dismissed by the EU. They have always said it’s either the Norway model (which is politically unacceptable to us especially brexiteers), a new model where we remain in the EEA and customs union, or nothing, a new model whereby we leave everything and deal with a hard border or nothing. Those are the menu options and have always been the menu options. The idea we could change them was always fanciful. Take your pick because there will be a lot of words but essentially we have to pick one of those choices. Be like Norway and accept the rules with no say. Stay in, in all but name. Have a hard border with NI. Or take no deal. You forget that the EU has a massive trade imbalance with the UK and need our 39 billion. That is a big carrot to dangle and one they won’t want to miss out on. The EU will take this to the wire but inevitably as they always do, miraculously come up with a deal that is closer to what we are prepared to accept. They are like a poker player with only one modus operandi it’s so easy to read and it’s about time we went all in and called their bluff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted September 21, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: You forget that the EU has a massive trade imbalance with the UK and need our 39 billion. That is a big carrot to dangle and one they won’t want to miss out on. The EU will take this to the wire but inevitably as they always do, miraculously come up with a deal that is closer to what we are prepared to accept. They are like a poker player with only one modus operandi it’s so easy to read and it’s about time we went all in and called their bluff. Meanwhile, in the real world where actual orders are placed and people can issue invoices and plan for the next 12 months, British exporters are losing more deals than you can possibly imagine. But you'd rather ignore reality and gaze wistfully into your crystal ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Spider said: Meanwhile, in the real world where actual orders are placed and people can issue invoices and plan for the next 12 months, British exporters are losing more deals than you can possibly imagine. But you'd rather ignore reality and gaze wistfully into your crystal ball. You might be losing but plenty are winning exports from UK are up balance of trade improving. That is the reality. Edited September 21, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted September 21, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: You might be losing but plenty are winning exports from UK are up balance of trade improving. That’s how commerce works. Who? Let's have some examples. I assume you don't actually have any personal experience of exports? I also assume you don't speak to people overseas on a daily basis, and that you get your information second/third-hand form whichever source suits you? Finally, don't fucking patronise me about how commerce works. You haven't got a clue. Edited September 21, 2018 by Spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Spider said: Who? Let's have some examples. I assume you don't actually have any personal experience of exports? I also assume you don't speak to people overseas on a daily basis, and that you get your information second/third-hand form whichever source suits you? Finally, don't fucking patronise me about how commerce works. You haven't got a clue. We import virtually everything we sell, I’m heavily involved in buying and importing process, we as a company are losing out because we don’t export. UK Exporters and manufacturers are winning at the moment. Exports are up balance of trade improving. Quoting individual cases is pointless. Edited September 21, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted September 21, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: Exports are up balance of trade improving. Quoting individual cases is pointless. So you can't then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Spider said: So you can't then? I could but I won’t as what’s important is the overall picture. Our exports are up I’m sure you agree on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted September 21, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2018 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: I could but I won’t as what’s important is the overall picture. Our exports are up I’m sure you agree on that. Go on then, show me these "overall" figures. I'll set aside my personal anguish for now and concentrate on the bigger picture where apparently I'm in a minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Spider said: Go on then, show me these "overall" figures. I'll set aside my personal anguish for now and concentrate on the bigger picture where apparently I'm in a minority. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/999337/Brexit-news-Project-Fear-UK-trade-exports-soar-record-high-616billion-post-EU-trade-money/amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted September 21, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2018 You've googled the Express. Fuck me. You couldn't even bullshit well and go with the FT or something vaguely decent. If you don't mind, I'll stick to the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I’ve asked a few times on here if anyone owns or works for a firm that is booming directly because of BREXIT, anecdotal of course but so far, nobody has come forward Plenty of examples the other way mind, my own firm included. We had the owners over from India for a Confrence last week. Acquisition’s are always on the agenda globally, within the UK they said they would wait and see how things pan out with BREXIT before investing tens of millions into the UK, that’s with a dog shit currency valuation to boot!! bwfcfan5 has summed it up, it’s eother a Norway model (or something extremely close to it) or no deal. How many times in the lead up to the referendum did we hear “Norway aren’t in the EU and they are fine”, let’s go down that road then and I’m sure we will be fine Not that the Eurosceptics would accept it, they want the unicorn model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Spider said: You've googled the Express. Fuck me. You couldn't even bullshit well and go with the FT or something vaguely decent. If you don't mind, I'll stick to the real world. Ok please find any info that says exports are down. I’ll not hold my breath while you look for that info in your real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted September 21, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Ok please find any info that says exports are down. I’ll not hold my breath while you look for that info in your real world. Mine are you daft shite. As are those of the rest of the supply chain. When a rot sets in, it starts relatively small. It then expands as confidence dips, and if you have a looming shitstorm such as Brexit, it becomes a full blown disaster. But you're Mr Commerce, so I don't need to tell you that. Speak to me in 12 months when this total clusterfuck finally sinks through that jaded skull of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Ok please find any info that says exports are down. I’ll not hold my breath while you look for that info in your real world. Exports are up but that is the same as every year and is a completely meaningless statistic. https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-has-posted-record-export-figures-s-not-very-remarkable/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 42 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I could but I won’t as what’s important is the overall picture. Not as far as I'm concerned it isn't - I don't give a fuck about the bigger picture of the future for generations to come. I'm bothered about myself and the here and now......as I suspect are most. Once I'm dead I don't care what happens to the UK to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Spider said: Mine are you daft shite. As are those of the rest of the supply chain. When a rot sets in, it starts relatively small. It then expands as confidence dips, and if you have a looming shitstorm such as Brexit, it becomes a full blown disaster. But you're Mr Commerce, so I don't need to tell you that. Speak to me in 12 months when this total clusterfuck finally sinks through that jaded skull of yours. You couldn’t find the figures then. Thought you lived in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Sweep said: Not as far as I'm concerned it isn't - I don't give a fuck about the bigger picture of the future for generations to come. I'm bothered about myself and the here and now......as I suspect are most. Once I'm dead I don't care what happens to the UK to be honest There speaks a true Brit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: There speaks a true Brit. Who said I'm British? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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