Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spider said: Mounts is telling us it will be ok. I'm simply asking how he knows that. Perhaps he has faith in humanity. Not sure I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said: Perhaps he has faith in humanity. Not sure I do. There are simply no indications from the ground that he has any reason for optimism. If it was so simple it would have been solved 2/3 years ago. To give some perspective - imagine if the border was between Manchester and Bolton. It's really not very different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Spider said: Mounts is telling us it will be ok. I'm simply asking how he knows that. Mounts has no more idea about how this will end up as anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, Spider said: And here, finally, is the actual heart of the matter. The result of the referendum is not in dispute, nor should it be. But - and it's a fucking gargantuan but with bells as big as planets on - but, should we push on with a Brexit that will cause part of the UK and our only geographical EU neighbour to descend into utter chaos? Solving 1 "problem" only to create an even bigger one? Makes no sense to me. Is it actually worth it? Personally, I don't think so anymore. If it weren't for the Irish problem I think Brexit would just about be ok. The Irish problem makes Brexit impossible for me. "Just about OK". That's very magnanimous of you. "Is it actually worth it?" It's what we voted for - so it needs implementing otherwise we are no longer a democracy. "Is it worth it?" was a question for 2016 and before otherwise the votes of 17.4 million people are cast aside and there's going to be big, big trouble. Alternative arrangements to the Irish border have been discussed at length for some time. The attached link is an example: https://www.prosperity-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2019/06/20190624-Alternative-Arrangements-Interim-Report-Press-Release-FINAL-.pdf I'm no huge expert on the technicalities and don't pretend to be. I don't need to be either. The people have voted - the politicians the civil servants need to respect that vote and find a way through rather than using the border as a block. The problem here is that the EU wants to make this problem intractable. Then it gets to keep Britain inside its rules and regulations via the single market and/or customs union. Then it gets to stop Britain running rings around it economically once free of its stifling regulation, growth killing federalism, zealous and ideological commitment to centralisation and love of a tarriff wall that stops EU countries reaching their full potential for trade with the 90 per cent of the world outside its boundaries ....while breeding inefficiency within its own industries due to the ills of protectionism. This is a matter of both sides wanting to get a deal done. The EU doesn't want that to happen. If it doesn't we have a clean break and WTO Brexit. Britain will not impose a border. Will the EU? And no I don't have you on ignore but I can't check Wanderersways from work or during the 24 mile each way commute to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Spider said: Tell me about the solutions for the Irish border I'm 100% behind the resultof the vote. We're beyond that now - how do we solve Ireland. And it has to be very specific details. None of this politician bullshit about "solutions being ready" and "all sides are working towards blah rhubard wiffle cockshit" If Boris can’t get the EU to change the current backstop or suggest something sensible instead then perhaps him the ERG and the DUP better accept it. It cannot be allowed to stop us leaving. Edited October 1, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: Mounts has no more idea about how this will end up as anyone It’ll end in a deal. How many times do I need to tell you. Your like a goldfish. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, leigh white said: Alan Turing would be struggling with this problem. He would indeed. That said he’s been dead a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, paulhanley said: "Just about OK". That's very magnanimous of you. "Is it actually worth it?" It's what we voted for - so it needs implementing otherwise we are no longer a democracy. "Is it worth it?" was a question for 2016 and before otherwise the votes of 17.4 million people are cast aside and there's going to be big, big trouble. Alternative arrangements to the Irish border have been discussed at length for some time. The attached link is an example: https://www.prosperity-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2019/06/20190624-Alternative-Arrangements-Interim-Report-Press-Release-FINAL-.pdf I'm no huge expert on the technicalities and don't pretend to be. I don't need to be either. The people have voted - the politicians the civil servants need to respect that vote and find a way through rather than using the border as a block. The problem here is that the EU wants to make this problem intractable. Then it gets to keep Britain inside its rules and regulations via the single market and/or customs union. Then it gets to stop Britain running rings around it economically once free of its stifling regulation, growth killing federalism, zealous and ideological commitment to centralisation and love of a tarriff wall that stops EU countries reaching their full potential for trade with the 90 per cent of the world outside its boundaries ....while breeding inefficiency within its own industries due to the ills of protectionism. This is a matter of both sides wanting to get a deal done. The EU doesn't want that to happen. If it doesn't we have a clean break and WTO Brexit. Britain will not impose a border. Will the EU? And no I don't have you on ignore but I can't check Wanderersways from work or during the 24 mile each way commute to work. So no real ideas then. your words will be a real comfort to the guys I know who’ve already lost their jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spider said: So no real ideas then. your words will be a real comfort to the guys I know who’ve already lost their jobs It wouldn't have mattered what I wrote. Something like that was always going to be your answer. Such is the mindset of a remainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, paulhanley said: It wouldn't have mattered what I wrote. Something like that was always going to be your answer. Such is the mindset of a remainer. I voted leave you daft shite. Lets hope your job is safe though eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh white Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, boltondiver said: He would indeed. That said he’s been dead a while! Yip, and nobody around to solve the puzzle. Edited October 1, 2019 by leigh white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: It’ll end in a deal. How many times do I need to tell you. Your like a goldfish. 😂 You said that would happen in March but it didn't🤔😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Spider said: I voted leave you daft shite. Lets hope your job is safe though eh? Hang on, would you still class yourself as a leaver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Hang on, would you still class yourself as a leaver? Insofar as I respect the outcome of the vote, yes. unfortunately, so much shit has emerged after the referendum - especially concerning ireland - that I think it’s become impossible to deliver in its current form. Simply “just doing it” has consequences that are so far reaching that it has changed beyond recognition from 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Trotter Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: I asked because 85% of people voted for parties who supported leave, and you were one of them curiously. I suggest you vote lib/dem next time as the next GE is a 3rd in/out vote it’s 2-0 to leave it’ll be 3-0 after the next GE, how many more times do we need to do this before you and your ilk get the fucking message? Ah yes, 'the fucking message'. I know exactly the one as it comes out like a broken record every time a Brexiteer opens their mouth: Leave means Leave, You Lost We Won, British Bulldog spirit, zzzzzzz As I've said, I and most other people 'of my ilk' can accept leaving the EU. The problem is, whenever any aspect of the Leave narrative is questioned, it all comes back to 'But We Won', like the dribblings of petulant toddler. If there's a deal that doesn't impact on the British economy and doesn't fuck up Ireland, I'm right up for it. Great, let's move on. However, we're all still waiting for Johnson and his collection of Yes men to come up with an actual solution. Going off the past three years, we have every right to be just a little sceptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just to change the subject.... Dominic Raab v Diane Abbott on PMQ’s tomorrow.....popcorn time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Trotter Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, miamiwhite said: Just to change the subject.... Dominic Raab v Diane Abbott on PMQ’s tomorrow.....popcorn time Jesus Christ. I really don't know why she's still wheeled out 😂. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Spider said: Insofar as I respect the outcome of the vote, yes. unfortunately, so much shit has emerged after the referendum - especially concerning ireland - that I think it’s become impossible to deliver in its current form. Simply “just doing it” has consequences that are so far reaching that it has changed beyond recognition from 2016. Right at the beginning of all this, I said the negotiations would be as easy/quick as people chose to make it. Unfortunately, my concerns have been borne out. The article that bd put up (interview with European MEP I think he was) was excellent, and sadly a little prophetic. Too little willingness to work together so as to fulfill a vote. Instead too many important people not prepared to do so. Not sure which way it will go; but the suggestion that it could go to ratshit in Ireland again, could possibly be applied to this country. Might not take much to achieve civil unrest if parliament can no longer be relied upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: Just to change the subject.... Dominic Raab v Diane Abbott on PMQ’s tomorrow.....popcorn time She seems half cut when she speaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 I don’t believe a single fucking word politicians of any persuasion say. I am calling all this directly from actual events that are happening beyond the “experts” and various other cunts who are bellowing through my black mirror every night. I am telling you what is occurring right now, and can be ascribed to Brexit. As yet, it’s all been negative. Job losses, aggro, revenues slashed, orders placed elsewhere, our great British manufacturing industry teetering in a terrifying limbo, being praised and hailed by the very people who threaten to destroy it, whilst they pissarse around. We were told it would be easy. Its the exact opposite and there are NO positives so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spider said: I don’t believe a single fucking word politicians of any persuasion say. I am calling all this directly from actual events that are happening beyond the “experts” and various other cunts who are bellowing through my black mirror every night. I am telling you what is occurring right now, and can be ascribed to Brexit. As yet, it’s all been negative. Job losses, aggro, revenues slashed, orders placed elsewhere, our great British manufacturing industry teetering in a terrifying limbo, being praised and hailed by the very people who threaten to destroy it, whilst they pissarse around. We were told it would be easy. Its the exact opposite and there are NO positives so far. Here’s a plus from today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: Here’s a plus from today Does that mean I lose all my Polish welders as well?? fucking hell fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spider said: Does that mean I lose all my Polish welders as well?? fucking hell fire Points based fella, like the good lady says. If they’re good enough they’ll be fine. If they want four wives, sixty kids and sit on their arses claiming the dole but whilst driving a taxi on the side, then it’s off you pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, TM Trotter said: Jesus Christ. I really don't know why she's still wheeled out 😂. Baffling isn’t it, but here’s the link. Should beat Loose Women tomorrow https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49897949 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 1, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, miamiwhite said: Points based fella, like the good lady says. If they’re good enough they’ll be fine. If they want four wives, sixty kids and sit on their arses claiming the dole but whilst driving a taxi on the side, then it’s off you pop. To be honest, half of them have already gone back because they’re so uncertain. We’re paying a fortune to train half arsed locals who want way more money and less hours. The Poles graft harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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