Politics

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

 

I want a good deal with our close neighbours as it is quicker, easier, more profitable and more environmentally friendly to trade with them.

 

You state it like facts; I couldn’t let that pass!

[mickbrown]

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Presumably that's in context of the deal as a whole. 

Also remember the eu has a bit of history over breaking its own state aid rules.

[Cheese]

14 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

 

Oh dear. What a shock.

[Escobarp]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Oh dear. What a shock.

So by staying in the eu we would be bound by those rules due to that deal struck between eu and Japan. That correct? Or have I read it wrong? 
 

also it’s actually a positive move either way. So your shock is that the government have done something positive I assume? 

[Escobarp]

12 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Give him 5

Not just for cheese. As I’m sure Michael understands the nature of the deal and restrictions that it brings having posted it originally? Assume he was posting it as a positive post in which case it’s great he understands it 👍🏼

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

So by staying in the eu we would be bound by those rules due to that deal struck between eu and Japan. That correct? Or have I read it wrong? 
 

also it’s actually a positive move either way. So your shock is that the government have done something positive I assume? 

You obviously haven't understood the article. I'll try to simplify it for you. We have replicated the EU-Japan Trade Deal, whilst telling the EU that we will not sign up to any Trade Deals that are like the EU-Japan Trade Deal. It's a positive thing in terms of our trade with Japan (in that nothing will change for the worse in the short-term), but it makes us a laughing stock yet again in terms of future negotiations.

And by the way, it's only been agreed in principle. I wouldn't be surprised if Japan dragged their feet and, possibly under pressure from the EU, changed their stance.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Cheese

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

You obviously haven't understood the article. I'll try to simplify it for you. We have replicated the EU-Japan Trade Deal, whilst telling the EU that we will not sign up to any Trade Deals that are like the EU-Japan Trade Deal. It's a positive thing in terms of our trade with Japan (in that nothing will change for the worse in the short-term), but it makes us a laughing stock yet again in terms of future negotiations.

I read about the trade deal in that article and others thanks. It’s a positive thing in terms of our ability to give state aid within our own country. In so much as it restricts it in a positive way. Maybe you should read up In detail, what current EU state aid rules are, what the objections of the UK government are towards those rules and how this Japan deal affects them , before you call anybody a laughing stock. Just a suggestion though. 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I read about the trade deal in that article and others thanks. It’s a positive thing in terms of our ability to give state aid within our own country. In so much as it restricts it in a positive way. Maybe you should read up In detail, what current EU state aid rules are, what the objections of the UK government are towards those rules and how this Japan deal affects them , before you call anybody a laughing stock. Just a suggestion though. 

So a trade agreement with Japan that restricts state aid in our own country is positive and something to celebrate, but a trade agreement with the EU that restricts state aid in our own country is unacceptable because "GIVE US BACK OUR SOVEREIGNTY"?

Edited September 13, 2020 by Cheese

[Escobarp]

Just now, Cheese said:

So an trade agreement with Japan that restricts state aid in our own country is positive and something to celebrate, but a trade agreement with the EU that restricts state aid in our own country is unnaceptable because "GIVE US BACK OUR SOVEREIGNTY"?

Like I said. Have a read about the restrictions on state aid as an EU member and then we will discuss not a problem. 
I’m not celebrating the trade agreement with Japan in my post. I’m saying the specific restrictions it places on us, if they are correct, are a positive. But they are completely different than the restrictions placed on EU member states. But I assume you already know this and just don’t want to show that you do for some reason. 

[Cheese]

44 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Like I said. Have a read about the restrictions on state aid as an EU member and then we will discuss not a problem. 
I’m not celebrating the trade agreement with Japan in my post. I’m saying the specific restrictions it places on us, if they are correct, are a positive. But they are completely different than the restrictions placed on EU member states. But I assume you already know this and just don’t want to show that you do for some reason. 

I have. Please tell the class why the UK-Japan restrictions would be a "positive", but the UK-EU restrictions would be "completely different"...

[Escobarp]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I have. Please tell the class why the UK-Japan restrictions would be a "positive", but the UK-EU restrictions would be "completely different"...

In which case you can explain the key differences yourself then can’t you. 

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

In which case you can explain the key differences yourself then can’t you. 

No, because there aren't any. Can you explain how they are "completely different" now?

[Escobarp]

Just now, Cheese said:

No, because there aren't any. Can you explain how they are "completely different" now?

You clearly can’t read then. 
 

uk Japan trade deal. Prohibits state aid unless a clear restructuring plan in place. Positive Step. should be the case imo. Also prohibits open ended bailing out of companies. Again positive.
 

I assume you have a source not publicly available to make the statement there are no differences.
eu state aid rules https://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/overview/index_en.html

 

please point out to me where the similarities lie in the two? If there are no differences by definition they are identical according to your reasoning. when in reality they’re clearly not.

Looking forward to reading your source so if you could share it much appreciated  it will either be a detailed account of the UK - Japan state aid rules that I’ve not seen or a different version of the EU state aid rules for the two to be the same as you state   

 

[Escobarp]

Learn a lot of good stuff from this site. So happy to look at your identical documents to further my knowledge in this respect.
 

Only something I’ve started to become interested in recently so any help you can give and sharing your vast apparent knowledge would be greatly appreciated. 

[Cheese]

25 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

You clearly can’t read then. 
 

uk Japan trade deal. Prohibits state aid unless a clear restructuring plan in place. Positive Step. should be the case imo. Also prohibits open ended bailing out of companies. Again positive.
 

I assume you have a source not publicly available to make the statement there are no differences.
eu state aid rules https://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/overview/index_en.html

 

please point out to me where the similarities lie in the two? If there are no differences by definition they are identical according to your reasoning. when in reality they’re clearly not.

Looking forward to reading your source so if you could share it much appreciated  it will either be a detailed account of the UK - Japan state aid rules that I’ve not seen or a different version of the EU state aid rules for the two to be the same as you state   

 

From your own link:

Quote

The purpose of the transparency requirements is to promote accountability of granting authorities and to reduce asymmetries on the market for state aid. Complementary information on all authorised state aid in the EU, including information in relation to the transparency requirement, can be found in the database of competition cases (ISEF registry of the European Commission)

Again, please explain how that is "completely different" to the proposed UK-Japan deal...

[Escobarp]

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

From your own link:

Again, please explain how that is "completely different" to the proposed UK-Japan deal...

Please explain how they are identical? 
 

you are also , as usual , making wildly incorrect assumptions about my views on state aid. The clue is in the fact that I see us moving to a more regulated scenario in relation to state aid as a positive maybe?
Penny dropping yet? Wheels turning ever so slowly? 

[Cheese]

22 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Please explain how they are identical? 
 

you are also , as usual , making wildly incorrect assumptions about my views on state aid. The clue is in the fact that I see us moving to a more regulated scenario in relation to state aid as a positive maybe?
Penny dropping yet? Wheels turning ever so slowly? 

They're identical because they're the same. I can't explain it any further than that, because it's impossible. You're the one saying the terms are "COMPLETELY DIFFERENT". Please explain the differences to us mere mortals.

[Escobarp]

😂 course they are 

[Farrelli]

I don’t see the problem, we can always change it later if necessary. It’s only an agreement we have signed bound by international law. 

[mickbrown]

11 hours ago, Escobarp said:

Not just for cheese. As I’m sure Michael understands the nature of the deal and restrictions that it brings having posted it originally? Assume he was posting it as a positive post in which case it’s great he understands it 👍🏼

Stricter 
 

Or did you deliberately ignore the ‘er’ bit of the word?
 

And yes it’s  good news there is a deal but the leave lot would have us believe we’ll be striding the world like a free trade colossus banging out trade deals on our terms left, right and centre. The reality of that deal shows that this will not be the case.

[Escobarp]

Just now, mickbrown said:

Stricter 
 

Or did you deliberately ignore the ‘er’ bit of the word?
 

And yes it’s  good news there is a deal but the leave lot would have us believe we’ll be striding the world like a free trade colossus banging out trade deals on our terms left, right and centre. The reality of that deal shows that this will not be the case.

But it’s only “stricter” than what we have offered the EU in our negotiations at this point.  It isn’t “stricter” than the rules that the EU has in place currently for its member states. Although if you believe old cheesey knob the two are identical. 
 

and I didn’t say the deal itself was a positive, although it is a small step forward,  I was referring to the control it could possibly bring to our own state aid. For someone who seeks to find fault in the UK government at every possibly turn, I would have thought anything that ties their hands in any way whatsoever would be seen as a positive to your good self? 

[mickbrown]

I’m just pointing out that the sunny uplands these bellends promised is going to be covered in cow shit. 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, mickbrown said:

I’m just pointing out that the sunny uplands these bellends promised is going to be covered in cow shit. 

Whereas in reality you don’t actually know. But let’s not worry about that

 

 Have a good one 👍🏼

[mickbrown]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Whereas in reality you don’t actually know. But let’s not worry about that

 

 Have a good one 👍🏼

We don't, but given this mob's predilection for bullshit and bluster we can take an educated guess.

You too👍