Politics

[Farrelli]

4 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Is the Swiss/EU border considered a hard border? I know its subject to the Schengen (sp?) Agreement but its relatively a soft one, surely?  Certainly the kind we should all be hoping for if we can progress this

Hardline Tory Brexiters must be called out on their inaccurate claims about the Swiss border. Dominic Raab was once again on the BBC Today programme this week (listen from 1:35) telling Nick Robinson that Switzerland offered a model for a frontier in Northern Ireland that “wouldn’t require infrastructure at the border”. The former Brexit secretary argued that “practice around the world including on the Swiss border shows it can be done”.

This is sheer nonsense, but once again went unchecked without any correction.

The hard-Brexit lobby have been claiming for some time that Swiss border crossing arrangements are in some way a model for Ireland. Daniel Hannan made the same claim last year on Newsnight as have Owen Paterson and other Tory anti-Europeans in different BBC interviews.

On LBC this week Eddie Mair allowed a caller to assert “there are no borders in Switzerland”, again without telling the man he was talking rubbish.

After Raab’s absurd but unchecked claim there was an explosion on Twitter, with people who lived in Switzerland or crossed the frontier from France or Germany to work there on a daily basis sending in photos of major border posts as big as those between the United States and Canada.

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Is the Swiss/EU border considered a hard border? I know its subject to the Schengen (sp?) Agreement but its relatively a soft one, surely?  Certainly the kind we should all be hoping for if we can progress this

There is physical infrastructure at the border, and anyone passing through is subject to checks. So yes, it is a hard border.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44054594

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cheese

[Spider]

A quick browse on Google Earth , for those with fngers and a computer, will show you that there are controls at every crossing on the Swiss border.

Head West on the same google earth app, and you will see that the N54 / A3 motorway crosses the UK/Irish border about 12 times in the space of 20 miles with only a drunken Irish simpleton waving you through at 70mph.

I've crossed into Switzerland by road from Germany a few years back and I can assure you it wasn't fast.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

So who's building your checkpoints then?

Simply, if no checkpoints then other measures required. 

[Ani]

58 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The unionists have already been sidelined somewhat, the EU need to work collaboratively rather than create an issue to gain politically. We all know that they have no intention of that until we actually walk from this charade. 

The unionists have been sidelined somewhat. 
The EU need to work collaboratively. 
 

Even you must see the contradiction in your own post ?? From day 1 people have been asking what Brexit looks like and no one is answering. 
 

Let’s be straight no one is in love with the EU. Before this most people could not be arsed voting in the elections. Most leading Brexiteers have said we did not vote for No Deal but now it is becoming acceptable. 
 

It is a fucking fiasco. 

[Spider]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

So who's building your checkpoints then?

Simply, if no checkpoints then other measures required. 

That's where I fall short of ideas.

What is the answer to a hard border with Ireland?

[Mounts Kipper]

34 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

The WTO also ruled that the US were using state subsidies for Boeing compared to Airbus.  I think the issue has been there for twenty years and is tit for tat.  Well done the EU for standing up to the yanks. 

And well done to the EU For breaking international law, you congratulate them, but at the same time you demonise our government for doing the same. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Cheese said:

There is physical infrastructure at the border, and anyone passing through is subject to checks. So yes, it is a hard border.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44054594

We went through a couple of years ago.

invisible and seamless

Most efficient, those Swiss

[Tonge moor green jacket]

17 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Is the Swiss/EU border considered a hard border? I know its subject to the Schengen (sp?) Agreement but its relatively a soft one, surely?  Certainly the kind we should all be hoping for if we can progress this

Sound like a bit of common sense going on there. Dunno what level of checks are conducted over in Switzerland, but the parties will have to agree to a solution based around no infrastructure. 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

We went through a couple of years ago.

invisible and seamless

Most efficient, those Swiss

So you think we should implement a similar border between the RoI and NI, where people cross multiple times literally every day to go to work/school/visit familiy? That's what Mounts is suggesting.

I'm assuming you weren't in an articulated lorry carrying import/export goods either.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cheese

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, Spider said:

That's where I fall short of ideas.

What is the answer to a hard border with Ireland?

Both parties did talk about technological solutions, briefly right at the beginning of all this.

Don't know how far these have advanced, but, if all had agreed to go down this route, it could have been developed (or be well on the way) for the time we need.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So you think we should implement a similar border between the RoI and NI, where people cross multiple times literally every day to go to work/school/visit familiy? That's what Mounts is suggesting.

I'm assuming you weren't in an articulated lorry carrying import/export goods either.

No idea

shouldn’t have interfered 

Where there’s a will, there’s a way, though.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Sound like a bit of common sense going on there. Dunno what level of checks are conducted over in Switzerland, but the parties will have to agree to a solution based around no infrastructure. 

It is a soft border, some of the border crossings are not even manned, goods are declared online or by written documents.   

[Spider]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

It is a soft border, some of the border crossings are not even manned, goods are declared online or by written documents.   

You reckon the EU will do the same in Ireland.

You've said yourself what a shower of difficult cunts they can be.

 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

No idea

shouldn’t have interfered 

Where there’s a will, there’s a way, though.

No idea, after 4 years. Sums it up.

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So you think we should implement a similar border between the RoI and NI, where people cross multiple times literally every day to go to work/school/visit familiy? That's what Mounts is suggesting.

I'm assuming you weren't in an articulated lorry carrying import/export goods either.

Independent travellers from EU to Switzerland are waved through, so there is a precedent, no reason for checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland, nothing needs to change from the current position.    

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

You reckon the EU will do the same in Ireland.

You've said yourself what a shower of difficult cunts they can be.

 

They have no choice but to accept it, what are they going to do about it?   

[Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Independent travellers from EU to Switzerland are waved through, so there is a precedent, no reason for checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland, nothing needs to change from the current position.    

Can you provide examples of this? Because this is the sort of bullshit that has been repeated and debunked over and over again, yet is still being bandied around as fact. 

"Nothing needs to change from the current position" because we're in the Transition Period. In 3 months, we won't be.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cheese

[tyldesley_white]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It is a soft border, some of the border crossings are not even manned, goods are declared online or by written documents.   

They do that do they, and it still take 20 min to 2 hours to get through .... Dover is really going to be a fun place to be

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

They have no choice but to accept it, what are they going to do about it?   

Basically. Unless they're going to send in the diggers to RoI, together with a few thousand tonnes of cheap Chinese steel.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

No idea, after 4 years. Sums it up.

You are really nice elsewhere and so nasty and condescending here.

 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

You are really nice elsewhere and so nasty and condescending here.

 

You only find it nasty and condescending because I'm pointing out unfortunate truths that you don't like.

[Guest Nordkurve]

30 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

We went through a couple of years ago.

invisible and seamless

Most efficient, those Swiss

Were you in a 40 ton truck ? Switzerland is in EFTA and the EEA. Althought not in Schengen they have Freedom of Movement. Cars don't get stopped. Trucks full of goods do get stopped and have their paperwork checked.

[Winchester White]

Just read this by a trade expert:

This has been true for 4 years: 

Post Transition, the EU & UK need a customs border.

That border can go between:
a) Ireland and Northern Ireland, dividing the island.  
b) Great Britain and Northern Ireland, dividing the UK. 
c) Ireland and Mainland Europe, dividing the EU.

Anyone shocked at these being the only options or the fact that goods borders aren't some minor inconvenience you barely notice is either disingenuous or hasn't been paying attention.

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Just read this by a trade expert:

This has been true for 4 years: 

Post Transition, the EU & UK need a customs border.

That border can go between:
a) Ireland and Northern Ireland, dividing the island.  
b) Great Britain and Northern Ireland, dividing the UK. 
c) Ireland and Mainland Europe, dividing the EU.

Anyone shocked at these being the only options or the fact that goods borders aren't some minor inconvenience you barely notice is either disingenuous or hasn't been paying attention.

Lets choose option 1, now who is building this border? No fucker it aint happening.