Politics

[Farrelli]

44 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Ex PMs who are all remain supporters, I believe we should use this bill as a lever to get the best deal we can, it’s well known that the EU ignore WTO law when it suits, we should ignore any law that compromises the U.K. plain and simple.  Doubt it will get through both houses though TBH. 

We are past all that.  This is about our future trading arrangements outside the EU, our integrity as a nation and the peace and security of Northern Ireland.  It is rare you get five PM's coming out together to condemn the government (four of them from the same party).

If the EU have been in breach of WTO law they should have been prosecuted.  Did this happen ?

 

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

We are past all that.  This is about our future trading arrangements outside the EU, our integrity as a nation and the peace and security of Northern Ireland.  It is rare you get five PM's coming out together to condemn the government (four of them from the same party).

If the EU have been in breach of WTO law they should have been prosecuted.  Did this happen ?

 

just a quick google found this, no idea how it’s ended, but it’s clear EU change the rules of the game, or just deny the rulings correct and fair to suit themselves, it’s time we stepped up our game and bend the rules,  strange that folk like you always jump on our government when we decide we’re going to play tough in order that we get the best possible outcome, yet are silent on cases such as below. 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/wto-panel-eu-fails-end-illegal-subsidies-airbus-67438210

[Farrelli]

57 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

just a quick google found this, no idea how it’s ended, but it’s clear EU change the rules of the game, or just deny the rulings correct and fair to suit themselves, it’s time we stepped up our game and bend the rules,  strange that folk like you always jump on our government when we decide we’re going to play tough in order that we get the best possible outcome, yet are silent on cases such as below. 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/wto-panel-eu-fails-end-illegal-subsidies-airbus-67438210

I looked into this a little and both Airbus and Boeing have been accused by the WTO of receiving unfair subsidies from their host countries over many years.  Depends where you get your source from, I assume ABC is pro-US.  Not only that but the UK government were complaining last year that they did not get the same subsidies as Spain, Germany and France.  Either you want to be in the EU or not, make your mind up.

[Ani]

2 hours ago, bolty58 said:

As always, straight to the point.

I cringe when they wheel out Little and Large. Bliar and the worst Chancellor of the Exchequer in living memory. The latter was also a lame duck prime minister.

The unpatriotic, trough swilling (b)leaders of the remain side would do well to keep these two clowns away from their sphere of influence as I am convinced that it actually assists the leave movement by turning people away from their side of the debate.

Yet again the Leave side roll out the idea that questioning anything about Leave is unpatriotic. 
 

So far we have 5 ex Prime Ministers and a growing number of Tory MPs questioning this. I asked earlier why supporters of Leave are not concerned about the handling of this. Clearly I am missing the point. 
 

Bolty and Mounts would you accept or be happy if we end up leaving with no deal ? Also if you can explain for the unpatriotic amongst us how goods will pass across the Irish border ? Will this be the same as how gods enter the UK as a whole ? 
 

Leavers were creaming themselves when Boris announced his brilliant deal. Now they want to change it. So was it not so brilliant in first place ? Or what has changed since ? Heaven forbid we have a time scale that allows scrutiny of the deal. 
 

In Boris you trust. 😂🤣😂

[ZiggyStardust]

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Ex PMs who are all remain supporters, I believe we should use this bill as a lever to get the best deal we can, it’s well known that the EU ignore WTO law when it suits, we should ignore any law that compromises the U.K. plain and simple.  Doubt it will get through both houses though TBH. 

I voted out.

I'mnot even sure this is a case of leave or remain.

Its a case of right or wrong.

And to break International law, albeit in a specific & limited way, is wrong, even if the bill is right.

[Mounts Kipper]

23 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

I voted out.

I'mnot even sure this is a case of leave or remain.

Its a case of right or wrong.

And to break International law, albeit in a specific & limited way, is wrong, even if the bill is right.

The point was the EU break international law when it suits, when a law could cause potential issues for supply of goods across the U.K. then it is well within the governments rights to negotiate a better deal, now if the EU become intrasigent then this bill might come into play, thats if it gets passed into law, of course it would be better if both parties could agree something that prevents the UK having to use the bill.         

[Tonge moor green jacket]

27 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

I voted out.

I'mnot even sure this is a case of leave or remain.

Its a case of right or wrong.

And to break International law, albeit in a specific & limited way, is wrong, even if the bill is right.

Aye. How I see things. I'm curious though, as to whether it will be shown to be illegal or not given the supposed get out clauses in the event of the eu not playing ball.

Yes plenty say it is, but others saying it isn't.

Not sure who would conduct a court case if it was to go that far.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

Yet again the Leave side roll out the idea that questioning anything about Leave is unpatriotic. 
 

So far we have 5 ex Prime Ministers and a growing number of Tory MPs questioning this. I asked earlier why supporters of Leave are not concerned about the handling of this. Clearly I am missing the point. 
 

Bolty and Mounts would you accept or be happy if we end up leaving with no deal ? Also if you can explain for the unpatriotic amongst us how goods will pass across the Irish border ? Will this be the same as how gods enter the UK as a whole ? 
 

Leavers were creaming themselves when Boris announced his brilliant deal. Now they want to change it. So was it not so brilliant in first place ? Or what has changed since ? Heaven forbid we have a time scale that allows scrutiny of the deal. 
 

In Boris you trust. 😂🤣😂

I would have no problem with no deal, although its best for everyone if a deal could be agreed, ultimately though we should walk on the 15th October if no agreement is forthcoming. 

The Irish border is being used as leverage by the EU in attempting to pass off a bad deal for the U.K. A solution could be easily be found if the EU was willing to cooperate, however cooperation isnt what they want, they choose to use the border as a bargaining chip.

 

Boris is not the man for detail so trust is a loose terminolgy, however he gets it that the British public want out and he was the only man we had who could win the election and stand up to the EU. He gets my backing for until this is over, once this is sorted the Tories should swiftly look for a new leader. 

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I would have no problem with no deal, although its best for everyone if a deal could be agreed, ultimately though we should walk on the 15th October if no agreement is forthcoming. 

The Irish border is being used as leverage by the EU in attempting to pass off a bad deal for the U.K. A solution could be easily be found if the EU was willing to cooperate, however cooperation isnt what they want, they choose to use the border as a bargaining chip.

 

Boris is not the man for detail so trust is a loose terminolgy, however he gets it that the British public want out and he was the only man we had who could win the election and stand up to the EU. He gets my backing for until this is over, once this is sorted the Tories should swiftly look for a new leader. 

What is the solution to the Irish border the EU are being awkward about ? 
 

Given it can be ‘easily found’ what is it ? 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

I looked into this a little and both Airbus and Boeing have been accused by the WTO of receiving unfair subsidies from their host countries over many years.  Depends where you get your source from, I assume ABC is pro-US.  Not only that but the UK government were complaining last year that they did not get the same subsidies as Spain, Germany and France.  Either you want to be in the EU or not, make your mind up.

The WTO (who are independent) ruled that the EU was unfairly using state subsidies, it is clear they break International rules to suit. Not sure what your last sentence is all about, it is clear I want out of the EU.      

[mickbrown]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

Yet again the Leave side roll out the idea that questioning anything about Leave is unpatriotic. 
 

So far we have 5 ex Prime Ministers and a growing number of Tory MPs questioning this. I asked earlier why supporters of Leave are not concerned about the handling of this. Clearly I am missing the point. 
 

Bolty and Mounts would you accept or be happy if we end up leaving with no deal ? Also if you can explain for the unpatriotic amongst us how goods will pass across the Irish border ? Will this be the same as how gods enter the UK as a whole ? 
 

Leavers were creaming themselves when Boris announced his brilliant deal. Now they want to change it. So was it not so brilliant in first place ? Or what has changed since ? Heaven forbid we have a time scale that allows scrutiny of the deal. 
 

In Boris you trust. 😂🤣😂

Bolty for one couldn’t give a fuck, given the bellend is to all intents and purposes, fucking Australian. 
 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye. How I see things. I'm curious though, as to whether it will be shown to be illegal or not given the supposed get out clauses in the event of the eu not playing ball.

Yes plenty say it is, but others saying it isn't.

Not sure who would conduct a court case if it was to go that far.

The EU Supreme Court

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

What is the solution to the Irish border the EU are being awkward about ? 
 

Given it can be ‘easily found’ what is it ? 

There will be no border controls whatever happens, I do think the EU would better spend there time thinking about that than atempting to use it against the U.K.  A similar agreement to the swiss/eu border would be a good place for them to start.   

[Ani]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

There will be no border controls whatever happens, I do think the EU would better spend there time thinking about that than atempting to use it against the U.K.  A similar agreement to the swiss/eu border would be a good place for them to start.   

So the solution is to allow goods from the EU into UK with no controls ? Presumably from there straight into mainland ? 
 

Is this a plan the Unionists are happy with ? The Swiss border does not have the same issues as the Irish border. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

7 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

The EU Supreme Court

😃

Did wonder.

Not somebody independent then.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

So the solution is to allow goods from the EU into UK with no controls ? Presumably from there straight into mainland ? 
 

Is this a plan the Unionists are happy with ? The Swiss border does not have the same issues as the Irish border. 

Goods currently come into the UK without controls.

If we aren't going to build hard borders, and the eu aren't, then who is?

A squabble using the situation to beat each other with, instead of showing sense and working together to form a solution. Technology was talked about wasnt it- lets get on with that instead of twatting each other with gamesmanship, laws and such fuckery.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Mounts Kipper]

10 minutes ago, Ani said:

So the solution is to allow goods from the EU into UK with no controls ? Presumably from there straight into mainland ? 
 

Is this a plan the Unionists are happy with ? The Swiss border does not have the same issues as the Irish border. 

The unionists have already been sidelined somewhat, the EU need to work collaboratively rather than create an issue to gain politically. We all know that they have no intention of that until we actually walk from this charade. 

[Spider]

What problems has pissing off the sectarian folk of NI ever caused?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 minutes ago, Spider said:

What problems has pissing off the sectarian folk of NI ever caused?

Depending upon who you believe, the new bill is aimed at preventing issues in this regard. Others say it will do the opposite. 

You can guess which groups say what.

Take your pick.

[Spider]

8 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Depending upon who you believe, the new bill is aimed at preventing issues in this regard. Others say it will do the opposite. 

You can guess which groups say what.

Take your pick.

All I know is, I spoke to a customer (non sectarian, just an Ulster man) who lives and works near the border, and they are very worried about the new year.

[Sweep]

8 minutes ago, Spider said:

All I know is, I spoke to a customer (non sectarian, just an Ulster man) who lives and works near the border, and they are very worried about the new year.

Did you not just tell him to man up have faith in Boris, who'll get it sorted

[Farrelli]

55 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The WTO (who are independent) ruled that the EU was unfairly using state subsidies, it is clear they break International rules to suit. Not sure what your last sentence is all about, it is clear I want out of the EU.      

The WTO also ruled that the US were using state subsidies for Boeing compared to Airbus.  I think the issue has been there for twenty years and is tit for tat.  Well done the EU for standing up to the yanks. 

[Farrelli]

30 minutes ago, Spider said:

What problems has pissing off the sectarian folk of NI ever caused?

The answer to all the border problems will be a united Ireland so inadvertently this will be helping the Republican cause.  Team Boris👍

Edited September 15, 2020 by Farrelli

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

There will be no border controls whatever happens, I do think the EU would better spend there time thinking about that than atempting to use it against the U.K.  A similar agreement to the swiss/eu border would be a good place for them to start.   

So you don't think there'll be any border controls whatsoever, whilst saying we should go for a hard border similar to the Swiss. Genius. No wonder you back Boris to the hilt.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cheese

[Duck Egg]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So you don't think there'll be any border controls whatsoever, whilst saying we should go for a hard border similar to the Swiss. Genius. No wonder your lot "won".

Is the Swiss/EU border considered a hard border? I know its subject to the Schengen (sp?) Agreement but its relatively a soft one, surely?  Certainly the kind we should all be hoping for if we can progress this