Watched some of the Eengerland game this afternoon.

Who in their right mind buys a ticket and then boos and jeers the players before the first kick?

I know its all about the knee but if the boo boys don't agree, why can't they just ignore the players' actions by sitting in their seat with their arms folded? I sat in may seat and kept quiet  in the 90s when the FA ordered us to have a minutes silence for Matt Busby.

18 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

?

The likely response to the brave act of resistance and defiance against our BLM Marxist overlords. Of no consequence to anyone but the person protesting it

If they ran on the pitch with a banner BWFC against racism Everyone would clap them. Regardless what they say this recent knee taking is following on from BLM protests and most people are anti BLM. To me they can do what they want but understand why some are so much against it 

3 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if someone boos a gesture against racism, then its a fair assumption that they're a racist and therefore a prick.

Which is where your belief in a gesture makes your views of those who disagree with you incorrect &, frankly, disturbing.

It also links in to the solidarity argument that all footballers are doing it because they all agree with it. What are the chances of that ? It's become a form of intimidation, like most acts of solidarity. I've seen this many times in industry and it is vile, bullying and dangerous.

I disagree with the gesture, but I object most strongly to any suggestion that by disagreeing I am, therefore, racist. One  does not mean the other.

Edited August 8, 20214 yr by Dr. Feelgood

12 minutes ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

If they ran on the pitch with a banner BWFC against racism Everyone would clap them. Regardless what they say this recent knee taking is following on from BLM protests and most people are anti BLM. To me they can do what they want but understand why some are so much against it 

That is where I am at

2 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

The players have said several times that its a gesture against racism.  I thought society had reached a point where it was agreed that racism is a bad thing?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if someone boos a gesture against racism, then its a fair assumption that they're a racist and therefore a prick. If that makes me a snowflake, a virtue signaller, a screecher, well I'll live with it.

Well your opinions wrong.

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

I admit it. I'm terrified of living in a totalitarian dictatorship.

Out of interest Paul, who is telling you that you can't boo? And if you did so at the game yesterday then who stopped you? Did you feel threatened? You say most people are against the virtue signalling but players taking the knee isn't virtue signalling; it's a reaction to a real issue. Which is why most of our supporters applauded in solidarity yesterday. 

What's most bizarre about your previous post is that you were being serious by comparing virtue signalling to oppressive regimes. Another poster has just done the same by assuming that players are being intimidated to do it. Those who have lived in and survived such regimes would be laughing at the comparison. 

I’ve seen more people outraged and vocal over players taking a knee than actual racism

6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Out of interest Paul, who is telling you that you can't boo? And if you did so at the game yesterday then who stopped you? Did you feel threatened? You say most people are against the virtue signalling but players taking the knee isn't virtue signalling; it's a reaction to a real issue. Which is why most of our supporters applauded in solidarity yesterday. 

What's most bizarre about your previous post is that you were being serious by comparing virtue signalling to oppressive regimes. Another poster has just done the same by assuming that players are being intimidated to do it. Those who have lived in and survived such regimes would be laughing at the comparison. 

I rather suspect they'd see the link straightaway. Are you seriously telling me that at 92 football league clubs (roughly 25 professionals at each) all of those people have exactly the same opinion? I'm sure you'd like them to have. They won't have though. There'll be plenty too wary to speak their mind and say "this is a load of virtue signalling crap".

We have had years with anti-racism stuff at the football - I can remember it and supported it way back in the early 1990s. As others have said earlier on the thread if they walked on the pitch with a banner saying "footballers against racism" nobody would bat an eyelid. The problem is this act is linked to the finger-wagging wokery and the hectoring and lecturing of which people up and down the land have had enough. 

It's been said on here today - if you boo or disagree with taking the knee, that automatically makes you a racist. However ... Cyril Regis, Brendan Batson and Laurie Cunningham could tell you all about what racism in football grounds really sounds like. So could our own George Oghani and Roger Walker.  Its utterly disgusting that people make lazy assumptions and brand people as racist if they object to political wokery infiltrating this great game of ours. Just as they seek to impose it on all aspects of our lives. 

8 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I rather suspect they'd see the link straightaway. Are you seriously telling me that at 92 football league clubs (roughly 25 professionals at each) all of those people have exactly the same opinion? I'm sure you'd like them to have. They won't have though. There'll be plenty too wary to speak their mind and say "this is a load of virtue signalling crap".

We have had years with anti-racism stuff at the football - I can remember it and supported it way back in the early 1990s. As others have said earlier on the thread if they walked on the pitch with a banner saying "footballers against racism" nobody would bat an eyelid. The problem is this act is linked to the finger-wagging wokery and the hectoring and lecturing of which people up and down the land have had enough. 

It's been said on here today - if you boo or disagree with taking the knee, that automatically makes you a racist. However ... Cyril Regis, Brendan Batson and Laurie Cunningham could tell you all about what racism in football grounds really sounds like. So could our own George Oghani and Roger Walker.  Its utterly disgusting that people make lazy assumptions and brand people as racist if they object to political wokery infiltrating this great game of ours. Just as they seek to impose it on all aspects of our lives. 

Can’t disagree with any of that

18 minutes ago, Rudy said:

I’ve seen more people outraged and vocal over players taking a knee than actual racism

In one Rudy  ….we need to remember why this is so important! Walking through the streets of Accrington ,before that drubbing, hearing a bunch of Bolton “youth”singing “we hate Pxxkis we hate blacks”  absolutely appalled and shocked me. Reported to the mounted police just outside the ground but they’d heard nowt..…I guess if taking the knee helps one iota in raising the awareness of these absolute cretins that their behaviour is totally and utterly unacceptable then it’s done some good….guess we won’t know what impact it is having for some time to come. 

20 minutes ago, Rudy said:

I’ve seen more people outraged and vocal over players taking a knee than actual racism

if everyone shut up about it, especially the media, the idiots who post stupid remarks wouldnt get the attention they crave.  Thats how i see it anyhow.   Some folk would post shit just for attention, 5mins of fame to them

19 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I rather suspect they'd see the link straightaway. Are you seriously telling me that at 92 football league clubs (roughly 25 professionals at each) all of those people have exactly the same opinion? I'm sure you'd like them to have. They won't have though. There'll be plenty too wary to speak their mind and say "this is a load of virtue signalling crap".

We have had years with anti-racism stuff at the football - I can remember it and supported it way back in the early 1990s. As others have said earlier on the thread if they walked on the pitch with a banner saying "footballers against racism" nobody would bat an eyelid. The problem is this act is linked to the finger-wagging wokery and the hectoring and lecturing of which people up and down the land have had enough. 

It's been said on here today - if you boo or disagree with taking the knee, that automatically makes you a racist. However ... Cyril Regis, Brendan Batson and Laurie Cunningham could tell you all about what racism in football grounds really sounds like. So could our own George Oghani and Roger Walker.  Its utterly disgusting that people make lazy assumptions and brand people as racist if they object to political wokery infiltrating this great game of ours. Just as they seek to impose it on all aspects of our lives. 

 It sounds exhausting being you.

 

3 minutes ago, Breightmet Boy said:

if everyone shut up about it, especially the media, the idiots who post stupid remarks wouldnt get the attention they crave.  Thats how i see it anyhow.   Some folk would post shit just for attention, 5mins of fame to them

Thing is 

You can shut up about it

But

Black folk would still be the recipients of abuse 

And what are they to do? Stop moaning or come off social media, whilst white players crack on?

21 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I rather suspect they'd see the link straightaway. Are you seriously telling me that at 92 football league clubs (roughly 25 professionals at each) all of those people have exactly the same opinion? I'm sure you'd like them to have. They won't have though. There'll be plenty too wary to speak their mind and say "this is a load of virtue signalling crap".

We have had years with anti-racism stuff at the football - I can remember it and supported it way back in the early 1990s. As others have said earlier on the thread if they walked on the pitch with a banner saying "footballers against racism" nobody would bat an eyelid. The problem is this act is linked to the finger-wagging wokery and the hectoring and lecturing of which people up and down the land have had enough. 

It's been said on here today - if you boo or disagree with taking the knee, that automatically makes you a racist. However ... Cyril Regis, Brendan Batson and Laurie Cunningham could tell you all about what racism in football grounds really sounds like. So could our own George Oghani and Roger Walker.  Its utterly disgusting that people make lazy assumptions and brand people as racist if they object to political wokery infiltrating this great game of ours. Just as they seek to impose it on all aspects of our lives. 

"This" as the kids say.

27 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I rather suspect they'd see the link straightaway. Are you seriously telling me that at 92 football league clubs (roughly 25 professionals at each) all of those people have exactly the same opinion? I'm sure you'd like them to have. They won't have though. There'll be plenty too wary to speak their mind and say "this is a load of virtue signalling crap".

We have had years with anti-racism stuff at the football - I can remember it and supported it way back in the early 1990s. As others have said earlier on the thread if they walked on the pitch with a banner saying "footballers against racism" nobody would bat an eyelid. The problem is this act is linked to the finger-wagging wokery and the hectoring and lecturing of which people up and down the land have had enough. 

It's been said on here today - if you boo or disagree with taking the knee, that automatically makes you a racist. However ... Cyril Regis, Brendan Batson and Laurie Cunningham could tell you all about what racism in football grounds really sounds like. So could our own George Oghani and Roger Walker.  Its utterly disgusting that people make lazy assumptions and brand people as racist if they object to political wokery infiltrating this great game of ours. Just as they seek to impose it on all aspects of our lives. 

Of course they don't have the same opinion. Not all clubs are even doing it. Some Black players such as Zaha and Ferdinand have said it is degrading, has run its course and isn't enough. Where's the North Korean firing squads in response? And the clubs with predominantly white players and staff that have stopped doing haven't faced a backlash or been accused of racism either. Which is why your link to totalitarian regimes is laughable. 

If you're after some proper virtue signalling then look no further than the politicians and multinationals at COP26 this November. 

Support grew for taking the knee during the Euros. A poll showed 56% of England fans supported and 32% opposed. Not sure that people "up and down the land have had enough". 

But yes - It was certainly worse and strides have been made. Yes it's disgusting that people assume someone else is a bigot because they disagree with their views. I've agreed with you on that one before. It's also disgusting that black players are facing a torrent of racial abuse whenever they make a mistake. Which is why players are still taking the knee. 

 

Edited August 8, 20214 yr by London Wanderer

13 minutes ago, Breightmet Boy said:

if everyone shut up about it, especially the media, the idiots who post stupid remarks wouldnt get the attention they crave.  Thats how i see it anyhow.   Some folk would post shit just for attention, 5mins of fame to them

I see the opposite. The more fuss that's made and the more the issue is highlighted then the more that will be done. It has already been shown that thousands of the abusive posts on social media are everyday people who social media companies could identify and give to the police if they put a bit of funding and effort into it. 

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

I disagree with the gesture, but I object most strongly to any suggestion that by disagreeing I am, therefore, racist. One  does not mean the other.

I'm sure there are a few that object to the gesture, on the grounds that they think it's wokery, ineffective, too political etc etc.

What I don't understand and what I posted, was referring to those that boo it and our own players. Tut, roll your eyes etc but openly boo your own team making a gesture that's demonstrating a stance against racism? I'd say its a fair assumption to assume anyone who does is a racist. 

Unless, like Paul suggests, the handful of clowns that were thankfully easily drowned out yesterday, were all outraged at enforced wokery. So outraged they'd risk upsetting their own players just before they go to work? Bonkers

11 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I'm sure there are a few that object to the gesture, on the grounds that they think it's wokery, ineffective, too political etc etc.

What I don't understand and what I posted, was referring to those that boo it and our own players. Tut, roll your eyes etc but openly boo your own team making a gesture that's demonstrating a stance against racism? I'd say its a fair assumption to assume anyone who does is a racist. 

Unless, like Paul suggests, the handful of clowns that were thankfully easily drowned out yesterday, were all outraged at enforced wokery. So outraged they'd risk upsetting their own players just before they go to work? Bonkers

I wouldn't boo. I'd simply decide it's not worth the energy.

However, silence is being interpreted as agreement. The fact that the Premiership and EFL have not just sactioned this but instructed it means it gives a false air of agreement. The wokery strutting about saying those who disagree are very few and are ipso-facto racists are wrong but who's to tell them ?

Many, many, many disagree with racism yet also disagree with this BLM inspired symbolism and all that entails. It's not adequate to say "I don't agree it's linked with BLM".

That's having your presumptive cake and eating it. You can't on one hand associate disagreeing with this to racism whilst on the other reject that supporting it links you to BLM whether you like it or not, or understand it or not.

33 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Of course they don't have the same opinion. Not all clubs are even doing it. Some Black players such as Zaha and Ferdinand have said it is degrading, has run its course and isn't enough. Where's the North Korean firing squads in response? And the clubs with predominantly white players and staff that have stopped doing haven't faced a backlash or been accused of racism either. Which is why your link to totalitarian regimes is laughable. 

If you're after some proper virtue signalling then look no further than the politicians and multinationals at COP26 this November. 

Support grew for taking the knee during the Euros. A poll showed 56% of England fans supported and 32% opposed. Not sure that people "up and down the land have had enough". 

But yes - It was certainly worse and strides have been made. Yes it's disgusting that people assume someone else is a bigot because they disagree with their views. I've agreed with you on that one before. It's also disgusting that black players are facing a torrent of racial abuse whenever they make a mistake. Which is why players are still taking the knee. 

 

"Torrents" of racial abuse? I can perhaps think of two occasions in the last decade when I heard a racist remark at the football - always from one person, not a group, not a song. We've seen isolated examples of players reporting hearing racist remarks from fans and there's generally a police investigation. The culprit is often found and dealt with under the law.

I'm sure there's more on social media. Twitter especially is a horrible bear-pit. We know that Saka and Rashford had some after the Euro final v Italy. I'm not denying that. 

Torrents though? There were certainly torrents from the Manny Road North terrace in the 80s towards opposition black players. I remember a banana being chucked on to the pitch from the Burnden Paddock to a Blackpool player called Morgan who was black. There's nothing remotely close to that these days. Why therefore do you use the word "torrents"? What's the agenda behind using a word like that? 

Edited August 8, 20214 yr by paulhanley

I may be being a bit simplistic & thick here but given the association between taking the knee & BLM & the fact that everyone knows the friction it causes, why don't the players have their own, different display of unity.... That way there would be no grey areas, anyone booing would indeed be a racist. 

This thread has reached it's end and should be closed. no one is going to agree..

If my players feel strongly enough about something and wish to make a point I won't condemn them.

If a bloke stands next to me and boos my team just before kick off then he will get what he deserves

The players have said they are taking the knee against racism. Let's be honest been said numerous times.

Some People are booing because they associate it with the BLM political movement. Let's be honest been said numerous times. 

Beyond that everything else is down to personal opinions. Is everyone booing a racist ? I doubt it. Is everyone  booing doing so because they really believe it is a Marxist takeover I doubt it.

2 hours ago, mickbrown said:

 It sounds exhausting being you.

 

🤣😅🤣

2 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

"This" as the kids say.

^^^ you forgot a few ‘up’ arrows. ^^^

2 hours ago, paulhanley said:

"Torrents" of racial abuse? I can perhaps think of two occasions in the last decade when I heard a racist remark at the football - always from one person, not a group, not a song. We've seen isolated examples of players reporting hearing racist remarks from fans and there's generally a police investigation. The culprit is often found and dealt with under the law.

I'm sure there's more on social media. Twitter especially is a horrible bear-pit. We know that Saka and Rashford had some after the Euro final v Italy. I'm not denying that. 

Torrents though? There were certainly torrents from the Manny Road North terrace in the 80s towards opposition black players. I remember a banana being chucked on to the pitch from the Burnden Paddock to a Blackpool player called Morgan who was black. There's nothing remotely close to that these days. Why therefore do you use the word "torrents"? What's the agenda behind using a word like that? 

Not denying things have got better in the stands and in wider society. 

After the penalty shoot out there were thousands of racist comments directed at our players.

Some people seem to think it's fine to separate social media from it all and see it as less of a problem because it's online or assume it is done by mainly by trolls. When some IT lads investigated independently they found that many of these racists were identifiable. Social media and the police are actually doing very little and most get away with it with no police investigation. It's a weekly occurrence for lots of players.

I don't have an agenda with the word torrent, maybe it is an overstatement, but when you're subjected to it every week I can see how it would feel like a torrent.