Kachunga was sent racist messages after the Burton game, hope it wasn't one of our own fans. Named, shamed and lifetime ban if it was, yet people on here still support booing when players take the knee. 🥺

18 minutes ago, Rudy said:

So was slavery, and discrimination against people because of the colour of their skin.

Its still happening yet you seem to think because people back it, or make a stand for it, they’re woke or virtue signalling. 
 

It’s embarrassing and your attitude and mounts attitude and others who are bored of threads being hijacked. Fucking grow up there’s a bigger issue than a message board having racism discussed

You know what I’m bored of seeing black players abused I’m tired of wondering if I will get abuse at a game, Worrying what will happen to my kids when they’re older because of their skin colour, wondering if they take a stand for themselves Will people call them woke. 

I’m sick of this whole fuckin debate and I’m sick of having to fight my corner because my skin is a different colour and people don’t understand what it truly feels like. 
 

Have whatever opinion you have of me I really don’t give a shit. Some people it will never get through to them. 
 

Its sad and I’ve had enough. 

I don't have any opinion of you. I've never met you and I don't think I've ever spoken to you on here before. The colour of your skin would not make one iota of difference as to my opinion of you or of any person. There is absolutely no reason why it should.

People's political opinions might  make some difference as to how I think of them . That would especially be the case if they are trying to annex the moral high ground for themselves with no room for any other shade of opinion. That is what wokery is doing the world over. It has to stop. Millions of people are on to this narrow-mindedness now and it will be opposed at every turn.

Being anti woke does not mean being pro-racism/racist. That is to fundamentally misunderstand the points being made. It is a gross over simplification that has been conveniently made several times on this thread already. 

This thread was hijacked from the virtue signalling in the first post. It could simply have decried the racism experienced by Elias Kachunga - it didn't have to then go on and make the petty points about knee taking.

As a child and early teenager I saw racism against footballers in absolutely full flow at Burnden Park and away grounds. I saw Cyril Regis and Laurie Cunningham play against BWFC in the late 70s as absolutely fantastic footballers and receive racist abuse. I saw Viv Anderson play for Forest on his way to being an England player. He got horrible racist abuse. That helped shaped my views on racism. You need to understand that context before you start pigeonholing me and others in a very, very simplistic way.

I've seen  racism in other walks of life. I don't defend it or condone it. But I do stand against people who use race issues to try to play one-upmanship and sew division by force-feeding a mindset and code of thinking on the whole population because they believe they have acquired the right to be correct about everything. That is a sinister trend.

As I said before there are plenty of people of all creeds and colours who are utterly sick of wokeist intolerance too. We need to avoid trumpeting diversity in all things other than thought. 

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

Remembrance is just remembering people of all creeds, colours and backgrounds who lost their lives in wars. That's not political. It's done once a year across all of our communities on a specific date linked to the Armistice in World War One. I'm a bit mystified as to why that links to the rest of this debate. Nobody is justifying the wars, nobody is making political points about the wars. They happened, they're a horrible part of our history and many people died and we should remember their sacrifice.

What about people who do not want to wear a poppy on their football shirt or sections of fans who do not like it ? Assume you would defend/accept their right to do so ? 

6 minutes ago, Ani said:

Whereas  the use of the word woke has no such issues ? Or virtue signalling ? Anyone who says they care about a variety of social issues but especially race seems to be dismissed as woke as quickly as gammon is used the other way

Virtue-signalling is what it says on the tin. People who are not speaking out because they have fundamental beliefs but because they have egos and want to be seen as having purer thoughts than others. 

Gammon seems a very specific term aimed at white working class people. Which proves a bit awkward when plenty of BAME people are sick and tired of wokery as well. 

Nevertheless ... you're always a reasonable bloke. I understand the point you are trying to make.

1 minute ago, Ani said:

What about people who do not want to wear a poppy on their football shirt or sections of fans who do not like it ? Assume you would defend/accept their right to do so ? 

Yep. Most years I forget to buy a poppy myself even if I do make a point of respecting the minute's silences.

5 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I don't have any opinion of you. I've never met you and I don't think I've ever spoken to you on here before. The colour of your skin would not make one iota of difference as to my opinion of you or of any person. There is absolutely no reason why it should.

People's political opinions might  make some difference as to how I think of them . That would especially be the case if they are trying to annex the moral high ground for themselves with no room for any other shade of opinion. That is what wokery is doing the world over. It has to stop. Millions of people are on to this narrow-mindedness now and it will be opposed at every turn.

Being anti woke does not mean being pro-racism/racist. That is to fundamentally misunderstand the points being made. It is a gross over simplification that has been conveniently made several times on this thread already. 

This thread was hijacked from the virtue signalling in the first post. It could simply have decried the racism experienced by Elias Kachunga - it didn't have to then go on and make the petty points about knee taking.

As a child and early teenager I saw racism against footballers in absolutely full flow at Burnden Park and away grounds. I saw Cyril Regis and Laurie Cunningham play against BWFC in the late 70s as absolutely fantastic footballers and receive racist abuse. I saw Viv Anderson play for Forest on his way to being an England player. He got horrible racist abuse. That helped shaped my views on racism. You need to understand that context before you start pigeonholing me and others in a very, very simplistic way.

I've seen  racism in other walks of life. I don't defend it or condone it. But I do stand against people who use race issues to try to play one-upmanship and sew division by force-feeding a mindset and code of thinking on the whole population because they believe they have acquired the right to be correct about everything. That is a sinister trend.

As I said before there are plenty of people of all creeds and colours who are utterly sick of wokeist intolerance too. We need to avoid trumpeting diversity in all things other than thought. 

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Virtue-signalling is what it says on the tin. People who are not speaking out because they have fundamental beliefs but because they have egos and want to be seen as having purer thoughts than others. 

Gammon seems a very specific term aimed at white working class people. Which proves a bit awkward when plenty of BAME people are sick and tired of wokery as well. 

Nevertheless ... you're always a reasonable bloke. I understand the point you are trying to make.

Do you honestly believe that people are pissed off with those booing the taking of the knee because "they have egos and want to be seen as having purer thoughts than others" ?  Really?

4 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Do you honestly believe that people are pissed off with those booing the taking of the knee because "they have egos and want to be seen as having purer thoughts than others" ?  Really?

😂

QE2 is a Marxist cop defender

Who'd have thought it

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Virtue-signalling is what it says on the tin. People who are not speaking out because they have fundamental beliefs but because they have egos and want to be seen as having purer thoughts than others. 

Fuck off. You don't have a monopoly on "virtues". Screaming the nonsensical term "VIRTUE-SIGNALLING!" every time someone says something that makes you feel uncomfortable (because it's true) is nothing more than an attempt to shut them down and distract from your prehistoric attitude. I'm sure most decent people would rather be falsely accused of "wokery" than racism, but whether you're racist or not - you choose to stand with the racists.

13 hours ago, Cheese said:

When the racist abuse stops (online or offline), it will stop getting brought up, and there'll be no need to take the knee - or any other action deemed appropriate to draw attention to the problem.

It might not seem a particularly pressing issue to most of us on here because we've never been subjected to it - and we don't have to worry about our children being subjected to it - but it's an uncomfortable reality that some of our fellow citizens/fans/friends have to face on a daily basis. A considerable minority in our society are ignorant racist fuckwits, and that minority has been getting more considerable and more vocal recently - whether you blame it on social media or politics or whatever. It simply needs stamping out. If you think 'oh, here we go again' over a discussion on an internet forum that you voluntarily visit and can leave whenever you want, imagine thinking 'here we go again' every time you wake up in the morning.

You misunderstood me. I have no argument with your views on racism. It’s the entrenchment on both sides that is starting to wear a bit thin.  Fwiw I thought our fans were excellent on Monday clapping when the players took the knee. I have no strong opinion on taking the knee. I have no idea if it positively affects racism and I would certainly never boo it. But I’m not black and never will be so have absolutely no idea what it’s like to be racially abused 

Cracking read this today 

Just now, Cheese said:

Fuck off. You don't have a monopoly on "virtues". Screaming the nonsensical term "VIRTUE-SIGNALLING!" every time someone says something that makes you feel uncomfortable (because it's true) is nothing more than an attempt to shut them down and distract from your prehistoric attitude. I'm sure most decent people would rather be falsely accused of "wokery" than racism, but whether you're racist or not - you choose to stand with the racists.

You quite enjoy a social media pile on don't you.

It's quite clear I'm not standing with any racists. That's the second time in 24 hours you've made wild and vile accusations towards me because I don't have views that accord with yours. Intolerance of others.

You really are a nasty, vindictive piece of work.

And in claiming special access to what's "true" you merely prove everything I say.

6 minutes ago, MancWanderer said:

You misunderstood me. I have no argument with your views on racism. It’s the entrenchment on both sides that is starting to wear a bit thin.  Fwiw I thought our fans were excellent on Monday clapping when the players took the knee. I have no strong opinion on taking the knee. I have no idea if it positively affects racism and I would certainly never boo it. But I’m not black and never will be so have absolutely no idea what it’s like to be racially abused 

I wasn't taking issue with you personally, it was just the phrase "here we go again", as has been muttered by several people who are "fed up" of this conversation. Apologies that it came across that way manc.

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by Cheese

3 minutes ago, MancWanderer said:

You misunderstood me. I have no argument with your views on racism. It’s the entrenchment on both sides that is starting to wear a bit thin.  Fwiw I thought our fans were excellent on Monday clapping when the players took the knee. I have no strong opinion on taking the knee. I have no idea if it positively affects racism and I would certainly never boo it. But I’m not black and never will be so have absolutely no idea what it’s like to be racially abused 

It did tickle me that because of the volume of the applause the boo-ers could not be heard.  But somebody, somewhere in ESL wasn't to be denied his voice.  As soon as the applause stopped he let out a quick, loud boo.

2 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

You quite enjoy a social media pile on don't you.

It's quite clear I'm not standing with any racists. That's the second time in 24 hours you've made wild and vile accusations towards me because I don't have views that accord with yours. Intolerance of others.

You really are a nasty, vindictive piece of work.

And in claiming special access to what's "true" you merely prove everything I say.

In what way do I "enjoy a social media pile on"?

Who is more likely to disagree with our players taking the knee? Racists, or non-racists? On this issue, you definitely stand with the racists.

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I wasn't taking issue with you personally, it was just the phrase "here we go again", as has been muttered by severeal people who are "fed up" of this conversation. Apologies that it came across that way manc.

No need to apologise mate

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

It did tickle me that because of the volume of the applause the boo-ers could not be heard.  But somebody, somewhere in ESL wasn't to be denied his voice.  As soon as the applause stopped he let out a quick, loud boo.

Do you think people are clapping because they agree with the taking of the knee or is it to pre-empt/drown out those booing?

Or both?

3 minutes ago, DazBob said:

It did tickle me that because of the volume of the applause the boo-ers could not be heard.  But somebody, somewhere in ESL wasn't to be denied his voice.  As soon as the applause stopped he let out a quick, loud boo.

Amazing. Fucking retard!!

Just now, Traf said:

Do you think people are clapping because they agree with the taking of the knee or is it to pre-empt/drown out those booing?

Or both?

Either way, it's a good thing.

1 minute ago, Traf said:

Do you think people are clapping because they agree with the taking of the knee or is it to pre-empt/drown out those booing?

Or both?

Personally I saw it as respecting the players wish to take the knee and drown out any boos but of course could be massively wrong. 

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

Do you think people are clapping because they agree with the taking of the knee or is it to pre-empt/drown out those booing?

Or both?

Good question. I noticed before the Derby - Forest game, Derby stood arm in arm, Forest took the knee. There was booing. Not sure who was booing who.

4 minutes ago, Traf said:

Do you think people are clapping because they agree with the taking of the knee or is it to pre-empt/drown out those booing?

Or both?

Both.

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

In what way do I "enjoy a social media pile on"?

Who is more likely to disagree with our players taking the knee? Racists, or non-racists? On this issue, you definitely stand with the racists.

I don't stand with any racists. Nor do I stand with people who try to impose their mindset on everybody else and lash out at them if they resist. I've explained my position on this several times.

I would encourage you to drop that allegation - and pronto.

Just now, paulhanley said:

I don't stand with any racists. Nor do I stand with people who try to impose their mindset on everybody else and lash out at them if they resist. I've explained my position on this several times.

I would encourage you to drop that allegation - and pronto.

Can you give an example of someone in this thread "trying to impose their mindset on everybody else"?

As I have said repeatedly, if you have an issue with our players 'taking the knee', after they've explained clearly, in no uncertain terms (along with our manager and owners), that it is a purely anti-racism gesture, then you are either calling them liars, or you stand with racists. Are you calling them liars?

12 minutes ago, Traf said:

Do you think people are clapping because they agree with the taking of the knee or is it to pre-empt/drown out those booing?

Or both?

I’m probably doing it to drown out boo’s if I’m honest. Not against it just stating I probably don’t clap for the right reasons.