Kachunga out for season

The lad from Germany with a name I can not spell couple of weeks

 

this thread could be longer than Brexit 

16 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Maybe they should do 45m of yoga each day.

Maybe.

I remember years back, one club brought in ballet dancers to help with stretching and strength etc.

BSA had all sorts of stuff available for players to try.

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

BSA had all sorts of stuff available for players to try.

He did but even BSA and his massive crew of analysts/scientists suffered their fair share of injury crisis’

 

BOLTON boss Sam Allardyce concedes to being riddled with anxiety on the eve of writing the latest momentous chapter in the club's history. 

Allardyce will today lead Bolton into their first European game overseas, with his side holding a slender 2-1 advantage over Bulgarian side Lokomotiv Plovdiv gained in the first leg of their Uefa Cup first-round tie at the Reebok Stadium a fortnight ago. 

But his enthusiasm and ambitions are tempered by worries surrounding an early-season injury crisis, notably in the critical area of defence with Allardyce switching striker Henrik Pedersen to left-back. 

Allardyce said: "Even before we get to the start of October, we are devastated by injuries in defence, leaving us thin at this stage and taking the edge off it and dampening my enthusiasm. 

"I worry what will happen further down the line when we get into even more games because injuries and suspensions are bound to mount. That is the real worry." 

Bolton are without Ivan Campo and Nicky Hunt while Radhi Jaidi, Gary Speed and Abdoulaye Faye are doubtful

 

I think it’s very easy for the uninformed to make inaccurate judgements when it comes to something like football injuries.

And even though @ianofcleveleys gave us a good insight into the training preparations of running athletes and made a good point about fatigue. I think it’s hard to compare athlete injuries to footballers. Forward and consistent motion is very different to the stretches, twists and turns that footballers are subjected to in training and matches.  

Edited September 22, 20232 yr by desperado

24 minutes ago, desperado said:

He did but even BSA and his massive crew of analysts/scientists suffered their fair share of injury crisis’

 

BOLTON boss Sam Allardyce concedes to being riddled with anxiety on the eve of writing the latest momentous chapter in the club's history. 

Allardyce will today lead Bolton into their first European game overseas, with his side holding a slender 2-1 advantage over Bulgarian side Lokomotiv Plovdiv gained in the first leg of their Uefa Cup first-round tie at the Reebok Stadium a fortnight ago. 

But his enthusiasm and ambitions are tempered by worries surrounding an early-season injury crisis, notably in the critical area of defence with Allardyce switching striker Henrik Pedersen to left-back. 

Allardyce said: "Even before we get to the start of October, we are devastated by injuries in defence, leaving us thin at this stage and taking the edge off it and dampening my enthusiasm. 

"I worry what will happen further down the line when we get into even more games because injuries and suspensions are bound to mount. That is the real worry." 

Bolton are without Ivan Campo and Nicky Hunt while Radhi Jaidi, Gary Speed and Abdoulaye Faye are doubtful

 

I think it’s very easy for the uninformed to make inaccurate judgements when it comes to something like football injuries.

And even though @ianofcleveleys gave us a good insight into the training preparations of running athletes and made a good point about fatigue. I think it’s hard to compare athlete injuries to footballers. Forward and consistent motion is very different to the stretches, twists and turns that footballers are subjected to in training and matches.  

Perhaps, although it's also relatively easy to make observations over a sufficient period period of time and make an assertion that a team does have an injury problem. When such observations are made repeatedly, then perhaps there is something in them.

I know you want to protect Evatt, and I'm not seeking to be over critical, however it is a perfectly reasonable observation that people have made.

The story you show arguably is the "exception that proves the rule" in that under Sam, players who were deemed past it, managed a renaissance in the career by virtue of excellent body management. 

He even pretty much stopped training at times, during peak playing times and maintained results.

It isn't just injuries neither, it is claims of fatigue too, and all this whilst having up to 5 subs available, which he always uses. This wasn't something available to previous managers.

We seemed to run out of steam last season, and I have always believed that Evatt's belief in being very fit and keeping possession is great whilst it works, but at times other teams manage that and it's us that end up knackered.

Beginning of this season, we've been more direct, put crosses in quicker and scored whilst in possession. We still have injuries though, and when players are reportedly tired after 70 or 80 minutes, after a week off, then something is definitely amiss. 

Not sure about yoga but Pilates is great for footballers and I thought all clubs do it.

Saw some bumph about it:

"Football involves a huge range of movements – amongst them abrupt starts and stops, twists and turns, changes in direction, jumps, stretches, and slides. Because Pilates works the body through all three planes and axes of movement through most of its exercises, the benefits are all functionally transferable into your on-pitch movement. (In comparison, traditional gym training generally involves movements in a single direction – think squats, presses or the exercise bike.)

The multi-directional nature of the sport means that players’ bodies need to safely absorb impact through a range of motions and directions. By improving the body’s movement patterns and strengthening the supporting muscles around the joints (think knees, ankles and hips) Pilates can keep you injury free, especially during the latter stages of a game when fatigue has set in, muscles are tiring, technique suffers and there’s more risk to joints and ligaments.

Footballers are not known for their flexibility. It’s a common trait in sports that involve short intervals of explosive speed and/or power that muscles shorten, lose flexibility and stiffen up – limiting their power and effectiveness, and increasing injury risk. By working on both length and strength of muscles, Pilates is a great way to offset this."

Also stops old people from falling over so much

 

Good piece.

I often notice the size of the muscles at the side of the knee in footballers etc. Far bigger and defined compared say to a slender player of the 70s.

No doubt to protect it.

Whether such muscles need more attention, for example stretches, I don't know. If only we had a man City physio to guide us.

5 hours ago, desperado said:

Majority of City’s injuries are muscle tweaks, strains etc If they can’t get the sports science right to prevent it, then there’s no chance for anyone else. 

Maybe @Rudy would be able to give us some insight… 😏

3 hours ago, desperado said:

He did but even BSA and his massive crew of analysts/scientists suffered their fair share of injury crisis’

 

BOLTON boss Sam Allardyce concedes to being riddled with anxiety on the eve of writing the latest momentous chapter in the club's history. 

Allardyce will today lead Bolton into their first European game overseas, with his side holding a slender 2-1 advantage over Bulgarian side Lokomotiv Plovdiv gained in the first leg of their Uefa Cup first-round tie at the Reebok Stadium a fortnight ago. 

But his enthusiasm and ambitions are tempered by worries surrounding an early-season injury crisis, notably in the critical area of defence with Allardyce switching striker Henrik Pedersen to left-back. 

Allardyce said: "Even before we get to the start of October, we are devastated by injuries in defence, leaving us thin at this stage and taking the edge off it and dampening my enthusiasm. 

"I worry what will happen further down the line when we get into even more games because injuries and suspensions are bound to mount. That is the real worry." 

Bolton are without Ivan Campo and Nicky Hunt while Radhi Jaidi, Gary Speed and Abdoulaye Faye are doubtful

 

I think it’s very easy for the uninformed to make inaccurate judgements when it comes to something like football injuries.

And even though @ianofcleveleys gave us a good insight into the training preparations of running athletes and made a good point about fatigue. I think it’s hard to compare athlete injuries to footballers. Forward and consistent motion is very different to the stretches, twists and turns that footballers are subjected to in training and matches.  

Thanks, I thought my post had fallen off the thread the other day, maybe too long and boring! The ones I look after are heptathlete/decathlete so have to be able to withstand the high speed impact of events like hurdles, long jump, high jump etc but it's fair to say there are specific stresses put on footballers, mixtures of types of running, jumping, turning and twisting. The S&C programme will aim to cover all that and mitigate against weaknesses in any individual where they show up. 

That post about Big Sam's days shows you can have bad runs anytime in the season, we've had others since. I suppose my general point was if the speed endurance has been put in the tank in pre season it ought not to be running out in September, more something to expect in March / April when some players are getting into the red zone. 

There's maybe a bit of it also about turnover of players and in Evatt seeking individuals who can offer different skills to the team mix he may be losing some of the robustness in their profile so they may not be as able to hack the training regime.  When Klopp and Pochettino had success at Liverpool and Spurs with the 'heavy metal football' approach it was with a group that were all of a similar profile and ability to buy into it. Gradually, as both clubs evolved their squads and styles, both came off that intensity and couldn't sustain it long term. 

If the pressing from the front, quick ball recovery, bombing wing backs style is what Evatt's committed to, and the training regime is tailored wholly to that, the profile of any new players brought in has to match it if the model is to continue to succeed. We look to have too many in the current squad who may not be suited to what they're being asked to do in training and games. Maybe a tweak to the playing style might be necessary in the short term

Sorry, another load of dreary bollocks on a Friday night, I need to get out more!

3 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

Not sure about yoga but Pilates is great for footballers and I thought all clubs do it.

Saw some bumph about it:

"Football involves a huge range of movements – amongst them abrupt starts and stops, twists and turns, changes in direction, jumps, stretches, and slides. Because Pilates works the body through all three planes and axes of movement through most of its exercises, the benefits are all functionally transferable into your on-pitch movement. (In comparison, traditional gym training generally involves movements in a single direction – think squats, presses or the exercise bike.)

The multi-directional nature of the sport means that players’ bodies need to safely absorb impact through a range of motions and directions. By improving the body’s movement patterns and strengthening the supporting muscles around the joints (think knees, ankles and hips) Pilates can keep you injury free, especially during the latter stages of a game when fatigue has set in, muscles are tiring, technique suffers and there’s more risk to joints and ligaments.

Footballers are not known for their flexibility. It’s a common trait in sports that involve short intervals of explosive speed and/or power that muscles shorten, lose flexibility and stiffen up – limiting their power and effectiveness, and increasing injury risk. By working on both length and strength of muscles, Pilates is a great way to offset this."

Also stops old people from falling over so much

 

Gary Speed and Ryan Giggs both promoted the benefits of Pilates in extending their careers 

1 hour ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Thanks, I thought my post had fallen off the thread the other day, maybe too long and boring! The ones I look after are heptathlete/decathlete so have to be able to withstand the high speed impact of events like hurdles, long jump, high jump etc but it's fair to say there are specific stresses put on footballers, mixtures of types of running, jumping, turning and twisting. The S&C programme will aim to cover all that and mitigate against weaknesses in any individual where they show up. 

That post about Big Sam's days shows you can have bad runs anytime in the season, we've had others since. I suppose my general point was if the speed endurance has been put in the tank in pre season it ought not to be running out in September, more something to expect in March / April when some players are getting into the red zone. 

There's maybe a bit of it also about turnover of players and in Evatt seeking individuals who can offer different skills to the team mix he may be losing some of the robustness in their profile so they may not be as able to hack the training regime.  When Klopp and Pochettino had success at Liverpool and Spurs with the 'heavy metal football' approach it was with a group that were all of a similar profile and ability to buy into it. Gradually, as both clubs evolved their squads and styles, both came off that intensity and couldn't sustain it long term. 

If the pressing from the front, quick ball recovery, bombing wing backs style is what Evatt's committed to, and the training regime is tailored wholly to that, the profile of any new players brought in has to match it if the model is to continue to succeed. We look to have too many in the current squad who may not be suited to what they're being asked to do in training and games. Maybe a tweak to the playing style might be necessary in the short term

Sorry, another load of dreary bollocks on a Friday night, I need to get out more!

Not at all- its very informative and makes sense.

It surely must be right that different body shapes etc would need to be treated differently in terms of training, resting and supporting exercises.

Plus the mental effects of training regimes; I would assume that for some they can become monotonous, dreary and less productive if they lack variety and interest.

59 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

That post about Big Sam's days shows you can have bad runs anytime in the season, we've had others since. I suppose my general point was if the speed endurance has been put in the tank in pre season it ought not to be running out in September, more something to expect in March / April when some players are getting into the red zone. 

It’s a good read pal 👍

I think the bit about being concerned if there’s a long-term endurance issue is valid. 

But could another explanation be that it was a short term/one off problem? For all the other games I’ve seen them in (and ridiculously I include Wigan!) I’ve not seen the players be fatigued  or heard that tiredness was an issue. 

Other things could have been at play against Reading that won’t be tomorrow? 

- The 2 week game break had players on inconsistent training programmes 

- During the game a more than usual workload/stress/strain was put upon certain players  

- Or that simply the endurance wasn’t in the legs on that day for 1/2 players. Professional and amateur (I know this 🤣) athletes have days where there’s difficulty explaining that “today I ran out of legs” - still amazes me how many footballers you see going down with cramp. 

I get that as professional sportsmen you’d not be wanting to hear any of the above as excuses for tiredness,

But it wouldn’t surprise me (and i suppose we’ll all hope I’m right on this one) if we don’t see those issues at play tomorrow, which will hopefully dispel the theory we are running out of endurance in September! 

 

I think you're right about other factors being at play at Reading and us being likely to see fewer issues today. Toal for one wasn't at it last week but had traipsed to Kazakhstan in the week, Charles the same, regardless of the shoulder issue. Others who stayed behind might have ended up doing lighter work

We shouldn't probably underestimate the challenge of what any club's trying to do in pre season. I basically get around 3 months of winter training to put 9 months in the tank, they're trying to put almost 10 months work into them in about 6-7 weeks. They do it full time of course, compared to my 3 x 2 hour sessions a week, so at much greater intensity, but that striving to get enough done for 10 months of Evatt's style in that timescale, maybe with not enough mobility / flexibility work included may be behind some of the early season pulls and strains. As you say, some of the lads physical composition may be able to stand it better than others.

Other factors to maybe consider could be a shorter rest because we had the two play off semis and playing on our pitch last winter in the state it was in. Fair to say too that other clubs are also either playing a similar way to us now or knowing they have to deal with those that do and upping their levels accordingly.

Hopefully we get through today, play well, win and gradually get a full squad back to push on into winter all firing and imposing our game on the opposition. 

7 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Hopefully we get through today, play well, win and gradually get a full squad back to push on into winter all firing and imposing our game on the opposition. 

Good lad. That’s the aim and seeing as I’m being confident this morning I believe that’s what we will see 👏

12 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Gary Speed and Ryan Giggs both promoted the benefits of Pilates in extending their careers 

Certainly went down well with Rhodri’s wife, at least. 

Any update on when Santos may be back? Next game after Carlisle is 21 October.

What injury does he have heard nothing from the club ? 

On 03/10/2023 at 22:12, Jol_BWFC said:

Any update on when Santos may be back? Next game after Carlisle is 21 October.

Sure Evatt said he was hopeful of having virtually everyone except GJ back by the Northampton game.

Im fairly sure it was everyone except gomes and, of course, GJ

Hopefully tomorrow goes injury free 

Dempsey out for a month 

10 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

Dempsey out for a month 

massive test now, for me he's our best player by far

2 minutes ago, L/H White said:

massive test now, for me he's our best player by far

Struggled of late with his back but yes I agree

maybe now or never for Morley 

13 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

Dempsey out for a month 

FFS, that is bad news.

Mind, it does seem he's been struggling of late. Wonder if this month off is related to an injury he's been carrying?

Just now, radcliffe white said:

Struggled of late with his back but yes I agree

maybe now or never for Morley 

Yep, he needs to step up.  No doubting he's got some talent, but he needs to start grabbing games by the scruff of the neck.  He's a passenger too often.

Just now, DazBob said:

FFS, that is bad news.

Mind, it does seem he's been struggling of late. Wonder if this month off is related to an injury he's been carrying?

yeah same injury, fractured back he's been playing with 

sounds similar to what Rashford was playing with then ended up having surgery I think? 

Evatt is stupid for letting dempsey continue playing with a fractured back

Santos and Maghoma back in.

Mendes Gomes still out.

Ashworth got a knock