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[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 hours ago, barrycowdrill said:

They’re tied in to each other though. When we are pressed our passing comes under massive scrutiny and more often than not falls apart. I completely get these are L1 and/or young players developing and part of their development is learning how to receive the ball in tight areas or under pressure, keep it and get out. It currently breaks down all over the shop and the pressure builds. Was a common theme first half and their 1st goal was inevitable 

at no point yesterday or what I can remember v Vale did our midfield have control of the ball and the game. Both sides got about us and we looked outnumbered 

Agree. But formation playing a major part in that. Having one or even two "attacking" midfielders that aren't contributing much leaves us open and not in control. 

Reminds me of Rotherham in particular, and others last season.

[barrycowdrill]

13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Agree. But formation playing a major part in that. Having one or even two "attacking" midfielders that aren't contributing much leaves us open and not in control. 

Reminds me of Rotherham in particular, and others last season.

First half yesterday Dempsey was so deep. Was stood 2-3 yards off Santos and Mbete. I know he and Morley are tasked with receiving off the CBS to start moves but the problem with that is a) it’s one less option available to him in midfield and b) defensively it left us with Morley in there. Shoretire gives away so many free kicks cos he’s ahead of the ball and having to track back so Morley just gets passed around 

[Tombwfc]

4 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

That's 1 goal, 1 assist and 2 bookings in 7 games according to Transfermarkt and others.

Which is shit TBH. Mind you Victor is doing only slightly better.

 

 

We all watched him play for Bolton for 80 odd games, I don't think we need to scout Dapo based off Transfermarkt.com.

He's miles better than Victor has shown so far, that's just a fact. Hopefully Vic improves, but I'm struggling to see what he actually does well. He's not fast, not good in the air, first touch is poor and his goal threat is non-existant.

[Traf]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

We all watched him play for Bolton for 80 odd games, I don't think we need to scout Dapo based off Transfermarkt.com.

He's miles better than Victor has shown so far, that's just a fact. Hopefully Vic improves, but I'm struggling to see what he actually does well. He's not fast, not good in the air, first touch is poor and his goal threat is non-existant.

Pretty much.

I wasn't too bothered about selling Dapo, but to spunk the funds away on VA was laughable. No issue with the Jerome signing, bit of experience/nous if we can keep him fit, but VA & Lulu don't impress me much.

We also talk a lot about how we've been "unlucky" with injuries, well we aren't : all clubs get injuries.

Secondly re: injuries, I've got this thing in my head about our training methods/conditions injuring players especially new recruits.

Iredale, Toal, Adeboyejo & Jerome all injured before kicking a ball for us. Ndululu possibly too, plus a couple of others who've got injured in training this season.

[barrycowdrill]

1 minute ago, Traf said:

Pretty much.

I wasn't too bothered about selling Dapo, but to spunk the funds away on VA was laughable. No issue with the Jerome signing, bit of experience/nous if we can keep him fit, but VA & Lulu don't impress me much.

We also talk a lot about how we've been "unlucky" with injuries, well we aren't : all clubs get injuries.

Secondly re: injuries, I've got this thing in my head about our training methods/conditions injuring players especially new recruits.

Iredale, Toal, Adeboyejo & Jerome all injured before kicking a ball for us. Ndululu possibly too, plus a couple of others who've got injured in training this season.

good point. It’s been mentioned many times about how IE likes and thinks we need intensity etc in training. Fine line between keeping them on it and burning them out to the point of injury 

[Take Hunt Off]

Slight positive from yesterday if we can keep Jerome fit I think he can make a difference particularly around the penalty box where he showed a bit of quality in our best move of the game, pity Bradley blasted his pass wide.

Agree Victor looks wooden in his movement, let’s hope he’s just trying too hard.

[Traf]

3 minutes ago, Take Hunt Off said:

Slight positive from yesterday if we can keep Jerome fit I think he can make a difference particularly around the penalty box where he showed a bit of quality in our best move of the game, pity Bradley blasted his pass wide.

Agree Victor looks wooden in his movement, let’s hope he’s just trying too hard.

Jerome was unlucky with the header too. If he's fit to start, he should play on Friday upfront with Charles with Lee pulling the strings.

[Traf]

As for Declan John, he was left out of the squad completely for "tactical reasons" according to https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/23380078.bolton-wanderers-boss-ian-evatt-explains-declan-johns-ipswich-absence/ 

Ian Evatt has explained why Declan John was not in the squad to face Ipswich Town on Saturday.

The Welsh wing-back had started the previous two games against Portsmouth and Morecambe but was not in the matchday 18 at the University of Bolton Stadium.

Gethin Jones started on the left flank, and was moved on to the left side of the back three in the second half when Randell Williams was brought on.

Evatt explained that the decision to play Jones ahead of John was tactically motivated, and that Williams had offered more flexibility from the bench.

“It wasn’t an injury, I just felt their biggest attacking threat with the width was Wes Burns. I felt we needed to play an extra defender there,” he said.

“Randell gives us flexibility to play him on the left or right side, and Declan doesn’t, it was a pure decision based on what Wes Burns offers. He plays as a winger and we needed someone with a more defensive mind to take care of him.”

Yeah, that worked well, mate. Stop fucking about with the defence, eh?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Big Vic was still the most effective of the two yesterday. Neither of them had a sniff (penalty apart). He'd scored plenty for Burton, and Evatt will be aware of how they were scored. 

I've not seen them, but I'd be surprised if there weren't a number of decent crosses played in for him to attack.

We seem to have more crosses when Jones plays right centre (he's a good crosser) and when Lee plays, with his clever movement opening things up.

Can't remember any early balls played in, some second balls played in second half, but with no quality and a packed penalty area. Too narrow with Jones on the left and no Lee.

Once or twice first half we had the opportunity to slip a striker in, particularly when Shoretire intercepted a pass- but his forward, and relatively simple, pass was poor and overhit.

Possession not as high, slow and inaccurate. Not sure what any striker could make out of that yesterday. 

We rely so much on Bradley for creativity and width and he can't do it all.

We need to improve our movement, width, speed and accuracy of passing to get anything of note out of the strikers. 

[Take Hunt Off]

16 minutes ago, Traf said:

As for Declan John, he was left out of the squad completely for "tactical reasons" according to https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/23380078.bolton-wanderers-boss-ian-evatt-explains-declan-johns-ipswich-absence/ 

Ian Evatt has explained why Declan John was not in the squad to face Ipswich Town on Saturday.

The Welsh wing-back had started the previous two games against Portsmouth and Morecambe but was not in the matchday 18 at the University of Bolton Stadium.

Gethin Jones started on the left flank, and was moved on to the left side of the back three in the second half when Randell Williams was brought on.

Evatt explained that the decision to play Jones ahead of John was tactically motivated, and that Williams had offered more flexibility from the bench.

“It wasn’t an injury, I just felt their biggest attacking threat with the width was Wes Burns. I felt we needed to play an extra defender there,” he said.

“Randell gives us flexibility to play him on the left or right side, and Declan doesn’t, it was a pure decision based on what Wes Burns offers. He plays as a winger and we needed someone with a more defensive mind to take care of him.”

Yeah, that worked well, mate. Stop fucking about with the defence, eh?

Our lack of balance on the left was excruciating, I know John isn’t the best defensively but they still ripped us a new one on that side due to a suicidal pass
Mbete’s uncertainty can’t be ignored but isn’t surprising either given no left sided midfielder either.

Thomasson & Johnston’s return can’t come quick enough.

John is still our best left wingback .

Edited March 12, 2023 by Take Hunt Off

[barrycowdrill]

Mbete and Jones on the left makes us very 1 dimensional. As an opposing team if you close down our right side you probably reduce our potency by 70% 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

6 minutes ago, Traf said:

As for Declan John, he was left out of the squad completely for "tactical reasons" according to https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/23380078.bolton-wanderers-boss-ian-evatt-explains-declan-johns-ipswich-absence/ 

Ian Evatt has explained why Declan John was not in the squad to face Ipswich Town on Saturday.

The Welsh wing-back had started the previous two games against Portsmouth and Morecambe but was not in the matchday 18 at the University of Bolton Stadium.

Gethin Jones started on the left flank, and was moved on to the left side of the back three in the second half when Randell Williams was brought on.

Evatt explained that the decision to play Jones ahead of John was tactically motivated, and that Williams had offered more flexibility from the bench.

“It wasn’t an injury, I just felt their biggest attacking threat with the width was Wes Burns. I felt we needed to play an extra defender there,” he said.

“Randell gives us flexibility to play him on the left or right side, and Declan doesn’t, it was a pure decision based on what Wes Burns offers. He plays as a winger and we needed someone with a more defensive mind to take care of him.”

Yeah, that worked well, mate. Stop fucking about with the defence, eh?

It was obvious that it was a defensive move- he's done it before and if he was up against an ariel threat then I could get it.

As we said though, it appeared as if he was more worried about what they'd do to us, rather than what we could do to them.

In the end, we lost an attacking threat down that side, and gave Ipswich all the confidence they could want. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Take Hunt Off said:

Our lack of balance on the left was excruciating, I know John isn’t the best defensively but they still ripped us a new one on that side due to a suicidal pass
Mbete’s uncertainty can’t be ignored but isn’t surprising either given no left sided midfielder either.

Thomasson & Johnston’s return can’t come quick enough.

John is still our best wingback .

It's good that Morley has improved his all round game, but we miss him further forward at times. If Lee can't play that much any more, then Thomason on the left and Dempsey on the right, with Morley in front.

Thomason provides natural balance and support for a wingback, and can pass it beautifully too.

Shouldn't need to use a right footed defender on the left then neither.

[tomski]

11 minutes ago, Traf said:

As for Declan John, he was left out of the squad completely for "tactical reasons" according to https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/23380078.bolton-wanderers-boss-ian-evatt-explains-declan-johns-ipswich-absence/ 

Ian Evatt has explained why Declan John was not in the squad to face Ipswich Town on Saturday.

The Welsh wing-back had started the previous two games against Portsmouth and Morecambe but was not in the matchday 18 at the University of Bolton Stadium.

Gethin Jones started on the left flank, and was moved on to the left side of the back three in the second half when Randell Williams was brought on.

Evatt explained that the decision to play Jones ahead of John was tactically motivated, and that Williams had offered more flexibility from the bench.

“It wasn’t an injury, I just felt their biggest attacking threat with the width was Wes Burns. I felt we needed to play an extra defender there,” he said.

“Randell gives us flexibility to play him on the left or right side, and Declan doesn’t, it was a pure decision based on what Wes Burns offers. He plays as a winger and we needed someone with a more defensive mind to take care of him.”

Yeah, that worked well, mate. Stop fucking about with the defence, eh?

Utterly mental. If he just said ‘I tried this but I was wrong’ I could move past it to a degree. To not have him starting is bad enough. Bench mental. He signed both LWBs available and chose to go with a RWB/CB seems like a real shot in the arm for John and Randell 

[Johnnyrotten]

9 hours ago, onefinfrandsen said:

Absolutely, we are going through a bit of a wobble but we don’t have any leaders out there. Ipswich had them all over the park yesterday, the 2 warriors in the middle, the 2 centre half’s , the rwb. We had Dempsey.

I agree totally with your point, but just on Dempsey, I keep hearing he's a leader/potential captain but I don't see it.  Appears to have a good, never-give-up attitude which is great but he doesn't seem very vocal at all (and he always looks like he's in a bad mood!).  That's not a criticism as he's no different to most other players.  The two obvious leaders who start regularly are Jones and Santos  (Aimson was in that bracket too).  Lee leads by example but clearly not a captain type being so reserved.  Our midfield is crying out for an old fashioned midfield warrior for next season.

[Traf]

1 minute ago, tomski said:

Utterly mental. If he just said ‘I tried this but I was wrong’ I could move past it to a degree. To not have him starting is bad enough. Bench mental. He signed both LWBs available and chose to go with a RWB/CB seems like a real shot in the arm for John and Randell 

Hardly suggests that he trusts either of them enough. 

[tomski]

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

Hardly suggests that he trusts either of them enough. 

Indeed or another fall out.

[onefinfrandsen]

15 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I agree totally with your point, but just on Dempsey, I keep hearing he's a leader/potential captain but I don't see it.  Appears to have a good, never-give-up attitude which is great but he doesn't seem very vocal at all (and he always looks like he's in a bad mood!).  That's not a criticism as he's no different to most other players.  The two obvious leaders who start regularly are Jones and Santos  (Aimson was in that bracket too).  Lee leads by example but clearly not a captain type being so reserved.  Our midfield is crying out for an old fashioned midfield warrior for next season.

Not sure Jones and santos were very vocal yesterday.

[Johnnyrotten]

7 hours ago, desperado said:

I made a similar observation yesterday.

But 2 controversial points on this:

1/ The much derided MJ Williams I feel helps in these situations and provides some element of control and calmness in helping us retain possession better - If he comes back fit then he could still have an important part to play.

2/ I don’t think Evatt is going to vary too much on his philosophy, so while some might not like the playing out from the back, getting angry, shouting abuse and bellowing “Just Hoof it upfield” (common claims from the gents behind us in ESL) is really not helpful and mindless.

I agree on MJ.  Course he has his faults but they all do, and what he brings is good reading of the game - similar to Lee, those interceptions don't just happen, its good positional play, and his passing range and consistency of retaining possession is on a different level to Dempsey for eg (who has other qualities).  Not easy to know what works best from game to game, depending on opposition, but MJ definitely has a role to play when fit.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

16 minutes ago, Traf said:

Hardly suggests that he trusts either of them enough. 

Indeed. I thought Williams seemed a bit disinterested when he came on. 

Probably won't be overly thankful for the lack of confidence his manager may have in his defensive abilities!

Still, they're all professional and must keep working.

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I agree on MJ.  Course he has his faults but they all do, and what he brings is good reading of the game - similar to Lee, those interceptions don't just happen, its good positional play, and his passing range and consistency of retaining possession is on a different level to Dempsey for eg (who has other qualities).  Not easy to know what works best from game to game, depending on opposition, but MJ definitely has a role to play when fit.

Agree on MJ, he’s got a bit of nouse, more so than Dempsey or Morley, granted we need upgrade on him to really progress. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Johnnyrotten]

7 hours ago, radcliffe white said:

Folk will get frustrated mate the playing about at the back isn’t working of late it’s putting pressure on ourselves, very much found out now in that area 

It may not be ideal, but the way I see it, if you want to play about at the back (not very well), you have to expect fans that have come to be entertained to not take kindly to it.  Frankly its crap to watch and we come to see a game of football for as near to 90 minutes as possible, yet we seem to spend an age just getting the ball out of our own box.  It looks comical when we have a goal kick with 3 players around the 6 yard box and its unrealistic to expect us all to sit on our hands thinking "this will be good to watch in a bit, just be patient".   And 30 seconds later the ball sails into touch or even worse the opposition midfield.  

[RUREADY2ROLL]

Declan made some awful passes at Morecambe which nearly cost us but likely others have said he is our best LWB and should have started

[globaldiver]

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Agree on MJ, he’s got a bit of nouse, more so than Dempsey or Morley, granted we need upgrade on him to really progress. 

Just see if we can get Luongo and Morsy when Ipswich go up. They are very good.

[globaldiver]

3 minutes ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

Declan made some awful passes at Morecambe which nearly cost us but likely others have said he is our best LWB and should have started

Presume unfit? Not on bench. Or another tiff.